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*spoiler* Zanpaktou like Gin's

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by sepe-taichou, Oct 8, 2006.

  1. sepe-taichou Ansatsu Senjutsu Tokushu Butai

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    I don't know if someone mentioned this before (couldn't search) or not. But here it goes.

    In the chapter were Isshin appears as a shinigami he mentions that skilled shinigami can control the size of their zanpaktou, so they don't walk around with zanpaktous like scyscrapers.

    Just now I was thinking that Gin's shikai is that he can lengthen the blade to make it "shot" out.

    To my theory. Couldn't all skilled shinigami control their zanpaktou to act like Gin's shikai abillity and shot out by will?
     
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  2. CM Pope The Holy Father

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    I doubt it very much.

    What Isshin was referring to - as I guess it - was that they could have a zanpaktou like Ichigo's first one before it was broken by Byakuya.

    It was bigger than everyone elses to match high reiatsu and everyone knows Ichigo can't really control his so....

    Yeah, that's my take on that.
     
  3. bonedogil me?!

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    hmmm okkk gin can lengthen his sword, nothing to do with width (probably)...
    but in other cases the sword will only grow keeping it's original proportions. just like ichigo's sword... everything was oversized there, including the blade i think:notrust

    umm so my thought about it: even if u loosen some energy to enlarge your sword, it will keep it's original proportions...
     
  4. jonat3 Active Member

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    That's quite an interesting theory. If a captain shinigami can control the size of his sword, can a shinigami copy Gin's ability if he has enough skill? Such a feat would require the highest skill, because he would need full control over sealing his zanpakutou and that control would be further tested, since that shinigami would have to shape some massive reiatsu to his will. The level of control would be comparable to how Naruto controls his rasengan.

    That casts an interesting light on Gin's own abilities as well. I always wondered why Aizen praised Gin so highly. His abilities were nothing special IMO, but now that you mention it, his ability to control the size of his sword may hint that Gin's control over reiatsu may rank among the highest. Gin may actually be the Naruto of Bleach.
    And what if Gin is ONLY using form control when he uses his zanpakutou? That may imply that Gin is also hiding his true shikai ability, just like Aizen. I'm certain his abilities have something to do with a spear (since his zanpakutou's name is God Spear), but perhaps it has some other abilities besides form control. Or it may be his shikai IS form control and he can shape his zanpakutou to his will in any form. Would be cool.
     
  5. Shizor It's been fun, Simon.

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    I think if Gin was just manipulating the size of his zanpaktou and not using his shikai, the whole sword would grow: length, width, the hilt, everything.
     
  6. jonat3 Active Member

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    It may be a matter of style. I imagine using your sword as a gun would be far more effective than using it as a giant club.
     
  7. Parell Sushi = love

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    This theory wouldn't work. Wouldn't it take alot of concentration, almost as much as getting the shikai in the first place, to resize your zanpukto? And, assuming you can do it, it would never be nearly as fast as how Gin does it, which is as fast as a bullet.
     
  8. jonat3 Active Member

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    Yeah, i gather not many shinigami would be capable of it. BUT, if a shinigami had supposedly enormous talent at controlling reiatsu, could he accomplish a similar feat? It makes me wonder.
     
  9. Parell Sushi = love

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    Maybe. But no matter what, it would take an enourmous feat which would be useless in a fight. It would NEVER be as good as Gin's, regardless.
     
  10. Uzumaki Yondaime Narutard

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    I think what Isshin was talking about was just the whole size of your soul slayer. Like sure, if all the captains don't supress the powers of their soul slayers they would be wielding gigantic soul slayers but it wouldn't have much power. Kinda like Ichigo's original sword which was just big, it had no real power to it. Gin on the other hand has a soul slayer that specializes in shooting out, it has nothing to do with the whole control thing.
     
  11. supersayainkakashi Member

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    No its his release power, thus is why he says, shoot em down.
    And notice, his sword is short, so that his shikai is more useful.
     
  12. Sobe \m/

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    Renji and Urahara already pointed out that Ichigo's sword was big but wasn't stuffed with any actual power, which is why it breaks up so easily. The power level between a sealed sword and released shikai is probably at least a few times over so even if a shinigami could "shoot" their sword out at will like Ichimaru it wouldn't pack the same punch

    I think a more unusual circumstance is Zaraki. I would think that his sword would be fairly large since he can't control his spirit force and I would also think it would grow upon removing the eyepatch since I believe Zaraki said he has too much spirit force muchlike how Ishida noted Ichigo's power when fighting the Menos Grande
     
  13. Parell Sushi = love

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    @sobe
    But since his he had the zanpukto his whole life and he hasn't always had shinigami powers(he still may not have them) the normal rules don't apply.
     
  14. jonat3 Active Member

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    No, there's a definite physics in bleach. In bleach a shinigami PARTITIONS his soul in two parts. One part is the zanpakutou, that contains that part of the soul that represents the wielder's will to fight. The other part is the wielder himself. A soul is a spiritual entity and the amount of power that a soul has is determined by the amount of reiatsu and the way that reiatsu is used. The will to fight is the MOST POWERFUL ASPECT of a soul, which is probably why the shinigami are so powerful in the bleach universe. If a shinigami synchronizes with his will to fight and is also able to master it, massive amounts of reiatsu will be the result.

    Since each shinigami's will to fight is different, each sword has different abilities. Basically, a zanpakutou transforms reiatsu into a certain power. There are many types of zanpakutou:

    1. Weapon type zanpakutou (like Renji, Ikkaku and Byakuya)
    2. Kidou type zanpakutou (like Tousen and Kira)
    3. Elemental type zanpakutou (Hitsugaya and Yama)
    4. Energy type zanpakutou (Ichigo and perhaps Urahara and Zaraki)

    A weapon type basically transforms reiatsu into a solid form. A kidou type uses reiatsu in a complex spell like manner to gain a special effect. An elemental type transforms reiatsu into a specific elemental energy. And an energy type uses the raw reiatsu itself, unmodified. The way Ichigo uses reiatsu, is that he compresses reiatsu, without altering it's nature. If we use some naruto terms here, what Ichigo is doing is only pure form manipulation. All the other shinigami use some kind of nature manipulation to alter the nature of their reiatsu.

    In case of Gin, it seems to me he uses a combination of high level form manipulation and nature manipulation. Now, what i'm proposing here, under these physics, it should be possible for a shinigami to duplicate Gin's feat. HOWEVER, if that shinigami doesn't have a similar shikai ability as Gin, it would require that that particular shinigami would have to be many times more powerful than Gin . Perhaps someone like Aizen or Yama. And that person would also have to be talented at form manipulation as well as nature manipulation.
     
  15. Bink Binktopian and Zoddist

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    Interestingly enough it's something that occured to me that there was a possibility that Ichimaru was concealing the true nature of his Shikai or powers in general. Not because I feel it's weak or anything, on the contrary, it blasted Ichigo back 25+ feet with ease, it would have snapped Matsumoto's zanpakutoh and Byakuya, who'd taken two Kuroi Getsuga's and was still able to shunpo about quite the thing was hospitalised by an accidental hit from it, and given that Gin can control it and cut with it even when it's lengthened, he could have killed Byakuya easily.

    No, my argument isn't with the strength of Ichimaru's Shikai not befitting someone of his (Assumed, but it's becoming a safe assumption) lofty power-level, it's just that it doesn't fit very well with the clich?s. Generally we have our Dark Lord, we have an evil Grand Vizier type advisor and we have the Dark Lords' thuggish lieutenant, only... From what we can see, Ichimaru is the advisor type one (Not saying Aizen listens to him or whatever, but he's the closest in his confidence and is about cunning rather than brutishness). Tousen, amusingly enough, and despite his constant ranting, is the more gung-ho, less thoughtful one. Therefore, I find it weird that Ichimaru has such a... straight-forward zanpakutoh, and at the very least I expect another couple of Shikai abilities, ala, Rukia's Dances or whatever before his Bankai.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2006
  16. sepe-taichou Ansatsu Senjutsu Tokushu Butai

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    I think it has pontential. If you are fighting and opponent and you sword gets stopped. Couldn't you release the zanpaktou a bit, and perhaps hit the opponent that way. Even if the zanpaktou keeps its proportions. It could give you an advantage.

    But it would be a really bad trick to use though.
     
  17. Yak on a Forums Break

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    On topic - no, I think Gin's zanpaktou is unique since it only stretches in length and not in proportional size. Also, the way it stretches out is pretty fast and when it regrows to its normal size, it seems to be able to bend so I assume, Gin might also be able to control the durability of the blade itself, switching from solid katana to a more flexible blade like you see it with some Chinese sabres.

    Also, Gin is a rather sneaky fighter and I believe his strength is the creative use of his zanpaktou. I wonder if he can use it like a grappling hook or like this:


    :nuts
     
  18. Akatsuki_4ever Member

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    You ARE TRULY A CLOSEDMINDED RETARD. The theory of Isshin being a Shinigami didn't work either now , did it?

    As Jonat3 pointed out, Gin may be the Naruto--or should I say, Sakura, of BLEACH. Sakura has far excellent Chakra control and manipulation that Naruto. Going with what the theory says, its the concept of making your blade bigger, longer, etc. by controlling the flow of reiatsu. Tensa Zangetsu literally became smaller than normal Zangetsu because Ichigo's bankai is a compression of his reiatsu.

    Maybe Gin has the ability to control,using his ultimate control of reiatsu outflow, the shape size and even the sped of growth his sword has.Similar to how Sakura knows how and when to release builtup chakra ina body part to cause massive damage *earth shattering punches,anyone?*

    While the fact that Gin's sword has a release phrase kills the initial theory, it could also bepossible that Gin could just be talking 2 his sword. Like how Ichigo talks 2 Zangetsu sometimes, well Zangetsu that no one else could see.

    If a Zanpakutos's sex can be changed *thanks to Mayuri* why is this theory "impossible"?
     
  19. Mori` <blink><font color="#DAA520">Sunshine.</font></bli

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    I don't think it would require all that much concentration, it should feasibly require more concentration to keep your zanpakutou's size restricted as Isshin talked about because you have to make a conciouss decision to do so. As soon as you release that control keeping your zanpakutou small it should automatically want to revert to its natural state of being hayuuuggeee.

    The difficult thing would come in shaping it like gins and sending everything into its length, rather than it become wider and thicker at the same time.
     
  20. Wrath Mourning

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    It's conceivably possible but basically pointless.

    However, something much more useful is the ability to extend the aura around your Soul Cutter. Kenpachi does this when he takes his patch off, and Ichigo does it (by accident) when he fights the Gillian. A Shinigami can increase the range and breadth of their basic attacks this way, but it appears to require a lot of spirit power.
     
  21. sepe-taichou Ansatsu Senjutsu Tokushu Butai

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    Now if all zanpaktous grows with the same proportions. Then why does Ichigos original zanpaktou look so different. It does not have the same proportions as all the others.
     
  22. Parell Sushi = love

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    Seriously, I don't think i ever said it was impossible. I said it wouldn't wirk, which means new factors can change that. Geez.
    Then why would he say the same thing everytime? I can maybe understand if he said it once, but he's already said it multiple times, the same way as everyone else has: [Command], [Zanpukto's name].
     
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