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Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (December 20, 2019)

Discussion in 'Konoha Theatre' started by Sennin of Hardwork, Aug 15, 2015.

  1. Fang

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    Its ironic to me that he thinks the majority of casual audience goers to movies would care about the novels or comics to fill in the gaps when ultimately the EU under Disney still is relegated to the sidelines despite the whole belief of "everything is canon unless it contradicts" spiel.
     
  2. Son Of Man

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    When is the china trailer
     
  3. Elric of Melniboné

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    Who wants to bet they censored Finn already for it?
     
  4. mr_shadow Moderator

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    This will be opening against Ip Man 4 in China. Will probably hurt the global opening weekend.
     
  5. Son Of Man

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    You mean in the poster?
    :LOS
     
  6. Son Of Man

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    :fusain
    Is Dony Yang in this one?
     
  7. mr_shadow Moderator

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    Donnie Yen is, yeah. I've made a about it.
     
  8. Elric of Melniboné

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    Oh boy oh boy, if the leaks are true and they probably are since they named dropped details thet already revealed this is going to be so bad it destroys Disney's Star Wars in way that were deemed impossible before.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 8, 2019
  9. Son Of Man

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    Nice
    I remember liking these movies. The donnie ones at least.
     
  10. Son Of Man

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  11. MartialHorror

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    Haven't these movies been bombing in China anyway? At this point, I think no one expects this to stand a chance against "Ip Man 4" in China.
     
  12. Catalyst75

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    No one knew Palpatine's full back-story either when he was pitched down a reactor shaft in Episode VI in the 80s, only that he was responsible for Darth Vader's fall and was the leader of the Galactic Empire. Just as people knew Snoke was a Dark Side Force user who led the First Order, and was responsible for the fall of Kylo Ren, before Kylo Ren turned on him.

    It took the Prequels - starting 16 years after Return - to fill in the blanks left by the Original.

    If the Original Trilogy didn't need to explain every detail when it first released, the same is true for the Sequel Trilogy. And if fans want to learn more about Snoke, they can from current canon materials and will learn more from future materials.

    Snoke had his role in Kylo Ren's character development, and that was fulfilled. Heck, I'd argue it was the right call to kill him in Episode VIII. It gives free reign for the build-up of Palpatine's appearance in Episode IX as advertised in all the trailers without plaguing people with questions of what his return means for Snoke.
     
  13. Kuromaku

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    That's not how storytelling works. At all.

    Palpatine didn't need a backstory in the OT because everything we needed to know about him was there from the start. We knew that there was an Emperor ruling an evil Empire. We knew that he was Vader's master. We thus knew that he represented everything the good guys were fighting against, be it the Dark Side, of which he was Yoda's dark reflection, or the Empire, which he ruled. That was literally all we needed to know. Episode IV was Square 1, and the prequels were Square 0, filling in the blanks that could be filled optionally.

    Snoke, OTOH, came out of nowhere to ruin the happy ending of the OT. We need to know who he is and how this happened, because we're long past Square 1. You can't just reverse the efforts of the heroes in the next installments without some context.
     
  14. Mider T

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    That wasn't everything we needed to know then. Some chameleon man in dark robes who was somehow able to turn a strong, good guy bad isn't an explanation.
     
  15. Kuromaku

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    Yeah, it totally was. Some bad guy turned the father of the hero to the Dark Side. That's all the backstory we need in addition to what is implied by what is said (Obi-Wan and Yoda's duplicity) and what is unsaid (Vader's behavior when the past and truth are brought up).

    Also, plantains are better than bananas.
     
  16. MShadows Moderator

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    They cut him from the movie altogether lol
     
  17. Catalyst75

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    Right there in the opening crawl of Episode VII, we were told remnants of the Galactic Empire became the First Order. Over the course of the movie, we learn the following:

    1. Snoke is the one who leads the First Order, indicating he was the one who gathered those remnants under himself.
    2. We learn that Snoke was the one who corrupted Kylo Ren to the Dark Side, leading to the destruction of Luke's new Jedi Order, and the disappearance of Luke.
    By the end, we know who he is and we know what happened to lead to the new conflict. Episode VIII showed us Snoke's motives for corrupting Kylo Ren. While he is dead by the end of Episode VIII, I anticipate that Episode IX will help wrap up the remaining loose ends.

    Because that's how story-telling works.
     
  18. Kuromaku

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    Did you actually pay attention to anything I wrote earlier?

    We're given a massive time skip that outright negates everything the heroes worked toward. We need to know why that happy ending was denied. We don't know who Snoke is, and we don't know how he corrupted Ben, only that he did. There's a woeful lack of context not helped by Disney not having a set plan, and made worse by Rian outright saying that Snoke was unimportant.

    That is most definitely not how storytelling works. At. All.
     
  19. Fang

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    Rogue One didn't do as good as Disney projected it in China.
    TLJ was a flop over there.
    Solo did even worse and got pulled like a month earlier then expected despite the contract deal between Disney and the China Film Association.

    Meanwhile Fast&Furious and Bayformers do fine.
     
  20. Son Of Man

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    They're doing star wars kabuki in the near future
     
  21. Son Of Man

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  22. ClandestineSchemer

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    No. Kuromaku already gave you the reason, but let me simplify it for you.

    The original trilogy was the beginning, with nothing before it.
    The reason sparse information worked there, is because it served as a basic setting.
    It's the equivalent to the "once upon a time in a distant land, there lay a kingdom . . ." fairy tales use.
    Hell, the long ago in a galaxy far away should be more than enough to see the parallel.
    You don't need to know more for a setting.

    The prequels were set before the OT, so they could keep this format effectively.
    However the New trilogy is different. Its not set into a distant future separating the setting from the OT.

    Because the "setting" isn't just a setting here. It is a continuation of the OT's entire plotline.
    Our last exit point was a celebrating galaxy, ushering in the revival of the republic.
    The next entry was basically the new rebels fighting an empire again.
    Putting "Something happened" isn't enough to make this leap work.

    Transitions are an important part of storytelling and this one just doesn't mesh well.


    Yeah, people need to have some time to dissociate any new movie from this travesty of a trilogy.
    Otherwise it will be fighting a mount Everest sized uphill battle from the beginning.

    Time will grant new attempts some leeway, if they can channel some good will Feige has earned through his handling of the MCU.
     
  23. MartialHorror

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    @Kuromaku is probably the best poster here, even if we're technically on different sides. I enjoy the NT, but I can't think of a single point he's made I've been able to mount a worthwhile defense for. Bonus points for remaining civil.

    I actually really want this movie to be released ASAP so we can find newer things to argue over. I feel like this thread is stuck in a time loop. We're still arguing over "The Last Jedi".

    Good or bad, exceeds financial expectations to falls short of them, "The Rise of Skywalker" isn't even among my most anticipated films of the year (even now, "Doctor Sleep" and "Knives Out" get me more excited), but I just want to know. I'm tired of speculating, lol.
     
  24. Fang

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    I don't know how anyone is interested in anything Rian Johnson is directing, new/original IP or not.

    I like how the tweet makes no mention that Resistance for all intents and purposes was essentially canned and canceled after two seasons. Yeah "concentrating" on TV productions with diminishing returns or thinking The Mandalorian on Disney XD is somehow going to salvage what has happened in the last two years is endless optimism if that's what Disney thinks will mend the Star Wars situation.
     
  25. MartialHorror

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    I'm a huge murder mystery fan, especially of Agatha Christie or at least Christie-inspired works. The world needs more of them.
     
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  26. ClandestineSchemer

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    Yeah. I just wish they went for more obscure ones.
    Instead of just remaking the major ones.
     
  27. MartialHorror

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    Yeah, you would think she only wrote a small handful of stories based on what they make movies out of. Oh well, I guess beggars can't be choosers...
     
  28. MartialHorror

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    You know, I always thought it was silly when people would say "The Last Jedi" killed their love for Star Wars, as it seems absurd that a single movie could do that. I hated the prequels, but I still saw them and was excited when the franchise announced its revival.

    But then I look at "Terminator: Dark Fate". "Terminator: Genysis" inspired a hatred within me usually reserved for clipshow sequels. Even the OKish reviews can't inspire me to go see it. I'll probably eventually get around to it when its more readily available, but I feel burned out by its franchise, even though it's not like the sequels come out frequently. Maybe if "Terminator 3" or "Salvation" were worthy of their hype, I could've just shrugged "Genysis" off as a misfired experiment, but a las... "Genysis" ruined Terminator for me.

    I guess everyone has that 'one' franchise.
     
  29. Catalyst75

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    Does "paying attention" to anything you say mean not having my own opinion and just saying yes to everything you complain about?

    Because I did pay attention to what you wrote earlier. I paid attention, and decided to express my own opinion. Another part of that opinion is that the story is not yet finished. We still have Episode IX left to see, and what I have seen from the trailers so far indicates it will answer the lingering questions of what happened in the intervening years between Episode VI and VII.

    The trailers so far have pointed towards Palpatine's machinations being the root cause, and explaining his return will mean giving us answers. That is why I'm looking forward to seeing how the story ends, rather than acting like the people writing off a trilogy they haven't seen the end to as a "travesty" because "it's not their Star Wars".
     
  30. Fang

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    I see.


    Of course he didn't. He doesn't have a refutation or actual response that coherently or logically explains the inconsistency and lack of connection bridging (or rather the lack of) between The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. He doesn't care there is absolutely zero oversight between Rian Johnson disregarding every single mystery box and sub-plot that JJ Abrams stocked into its predecessor or the fact that for all intents and purposes we are at the destination point in a trilogy with no actual semblance of a cognizant plot to bring everything together.

    That is why Catalyst thinks he somehow has a stance that logically falls back on texts scrawls since there is nothing else he can offer to what you have said. Who is Snoke? Irrelevant. Why is he around? Irrelevant. Is he a character? Not even this since he's now been retroactively delegated into being as much a plot device as Maz.
     
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