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State Your Controversial Naruto Opinions

Discussion in 'Konoha Library' started by adeshina365, Dec 11, 2016.

  1. Arthas Anko's Lover

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    Problem with that is Kishi tried to have it both ways. Claiming Naruto didn't have any friends then showing him hanging out with Kiba, Choji etc at school.

    This again comes down to Kishi's writing style of TELL one thing SHOW another.

    I honestly can't really recall many instances of Naruto being hated or discriminated against by his classmates. He acted like a class clown and was treated like a class clown but actual hatred or discrimination?

    Similarly there were not many examples of the adults actually discriminating against Naruto that I recall which I honestly feel ruined the whole Konoha not betraying and having faith in Naruto scene during the Pein Invasion. It would have been much more powerfull scene if we had examples of people who treated Naruto shabbily now having faith in him.
     
  2. Arles Celes The Psychologist

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    I think it was mostly Ebisu.

    He was also during Pain attack on Konoha THE ex-Naruto hater who had shown how much his opinion of Naruto changed for the better.

    Though Kishi perhaps shouldn't make Ebisu start showing signs of respect for Naruto back in part 1 when he was asked for Kakashi to teach Naruto some chakra control. Already after seeing Naruto's determination and unwillingness to take shortcuts Ebisu was beginning to reconsider his previous contempt for Naruto.

    Then again plenty of contempt might have also come from the fact that Naruto was causing trouble to the teachers, sleeping during class and showing no intention of taking things seriously.

    I guess Kishi did not show too much discrimination simply to not make Konoha as huge jerks. It was supposed to be the village that represented the Will of Fire-the most positive ideology.

    Even with Uchihas Kishi did not show how the Uchihas were discriminated aside from how they were forced to settle on the edge of the village. If too much discrimination was shown there would be hard to see Konoha as the ones in the right. So Kishi just focused on "Tell not show" approach.

    Finally IMO Kishi should have shown the elders to revise their opinion on Naruto most of all. Even in part 2 they treated Naruto like a weapon and sympathized with Danzou. When Tsunade collapsed they looked as if they felt she deserved it. Never they were shown "converting" even though they needed it more than anyone else. Not to mention they role in the Uchiha clan's demise. Sasuke deserved at least an apology.
     
  3. Indra Well-Known Member

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    Naruto was allowed to hang around with most of the Village's children, as long as there wasn't parental super vision. When an Adult (who knew of his situation) saw Naruto interacting with their kids, they stopped the playing immediately. Unless this scene only happened in the anime, plus I am way too lazy to look for the scans.

    Plus, Hiruzen I am assuming made it clear that no one was to know that Naruto was a Jinchuriki, not even Naruto himself up until he met Jiraiya. So the parents could not tell their own kids why hey could not hang out or socialize with Naruto, nor did Naruto understand why the Adults tried to make everyone avoid him.



    I had this on call. But anyway, no one generally discriminated against Naruto post-Team 7. He was away from the Village most of the time anyway, and when he did solemnly return, it was after completing a mission.

    I do think Naruto's big break in terms of earning the favor of the community, was in the Chunin Exams. Highly doubt anyone hated his ass in Shippuden, other than Sasuke at least.
     
  4. MS81 Supreme Jounin

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    I wished that Kakashi either had Boss dog summon or something similar, kept the sharingan with Naruto sage chakra.
    It was really pointless to give him hokage role with no power.
    I always thought it was silly to take away his rikudou chakra but keep his eye that Naruto used with his rikudou powers?!?!:wha
     
  5. Arthas Anko's Lover

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    Unless those parents had super senses and time to spare then having parents forbidding such socialization would make hanging out with Naruto more fun for many kids.

    Also the fact that the adults tried to shun him, does not mean Naruto did not have friends which was also shown in flashbacks (which is again the problem with Kishi's story telling.)

    This is also the problem:

    Kishi Tells something but barely Shows it if at all and sometimes shows something that contradicts what he Tells.

    We got your attached flash back above but then we got flash backs of Naruto hanging around Choji and Kiba etc and then
     
  6. SoulFire! Venerable Sage

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    Such treatment as a small child obviously stuck with Naruto even into his teen years. This was made apparent when he hesitated to give an autograph to that admiring Shinobi in Ichiraku. He held inside longtime feelings of resentment and pain from those early years and simply could not believe that the village who had treated him with such disdain now 'loved' him and only after he faced those feelings at the Waterfall of Truth that he could accept it as true.

    Just because Naruto was able to hang around with the other class disrupters does not mean that he was an accepted member of the group. He was still mocked and given little respect even as a hanger on within their ranks. Naruto was desperate enough for companionship to tolerate the abuse and play the fool just to be in their company.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016
  7. Zyrax Perfection

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  8. Arthas Anko's Lover

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    The point I am trying to make is that we the readers were never truelly shown this 'prejiduice' against Naruto. There a few panels at best but there was practically no discrimination based on Naruto being a jinchuuriki once the manga started.

    It takes the teeth out of the claim that Naruto strove to over come such treatment.

    The same basic complaint also applies to other aspects of the manga:

    Kyuubi's sudden 'friendship' with Naruto when it would have been better shown as a build up over the years.

    Discrimination against the Uchiha

    etc...

    Yes but again that was less because Naruto was a jinchuuriki and more because he behaved like the Class Clown. Behave like a 'Dobe' get treated like a 'Dobe'. Also I find it difficult at least for Choji and Shikamaru to actively 'mistreat' Naruto. It would require effort on their part. Naruto started behaving better after becoming a gennin so he was treated better by his classmates.
     
  9. HoroHoro ---

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    lol @ your signature indra
     
  10. SoulFire! Venerable Sage

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    There were disparaging comments from the villagers, such as the two women talking about Naruto as he sat in the swing outside of the Academy on the day of graduation. Villagers usually shushed one another with the warning that they weren't to speak about it. Parents simply warned their children to avoid him and that along with his disruptive and often rude behavior made him an outsider and target for mockery among his peers.

    If one looks at the first part of the series the term 'Jinchuuriki' is never used. I don't think Kishi came up with it until part two--I also have my doubts that the origin of the Kyuubi (and the idea that it was more than a mass of hate filled chakra) was set until part two as well--in fact not until Kishi came up with Killer Bee and Eight Tails and gave them a relationship. Writing long term Kishi often flew by the seat of his pants and plotted as he went.

    In early chapters of the manga right into the Chuunin exams we saw that Shikamaru, Kiba and the others treated Naruto with disdain and he did the same back at them. For the kids it was never about Naruto being the vessel of the Demon Fox as they knew nothing about that--it was a combination of parental influence and reaction to Naruto's behavior.
     
  11. HoroHoro ---

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    You mean where he's a hypocrite, shallow, vain and an unethical douche who lets crooks like Orochimaru off the hook and dismisses his inhumane practices like human experiments?

    Nah, fuck that. Naruto's one and only good personality was in Part 1.
     
  12. Blu-ray Moderator Moderator

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    The rest are a given (though I wouldn't go so far as to call him a douche) but when did adult Naruto ever display the traits in bold?:hm
     
  13. HoroHoro ---

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    In Gaiden and Boruto where he goes on a power trip and demands utmost respect. He doesn't like being called dad by Boruto, and demands his son and everyone across the village to refer to him as, "Lord Hokage," completely dismissing the fact that he called Hiruzen "old man" and Tsunade, "old hag" or "granny" when he was young.
     
  14. Arthas Anko's Lover

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    Again those were pre-gennin and only at the very start of the manga. It would have been better if such treatment persisted during his gennin days at least so that readers could actually see it happening and thus feel more of an impact when Naruto overcame such prejudice.

    Also you could substitute "Jinchuuriki" for "Nine-tails Container". We don't see Naruto face a lot of prejudice for being the container of the nine tails during the actual manga.

    Which again comes back to my point:

    Naruto behaved like a class clown, he was treated like a class clown by his peers.

    Naruto (post-gennin) became more mature and got results his peers treated him better.

    He didn't exactly get treated badly by his peers because he was the container for the nine-tails fox.
     
  15. COREYxYEROC MESSATSU!

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    So i am being serious and not joking i would have to say that Sakura is really a really good character and the things people say about her actually apply to Hinata. Hinata might be the most useless character in the whole story.
     
  16. COREYxYEROC MESSATSU!

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    I dont know if its controversial in the community but turning Sasuke bad after he defeated Sasuke was the biggest load of shit ever. If sasuke returned to the leaf when he killed Itachi i think the story would have been so much better. i actually hated sasuke after the kage summit because i thought he was written terribly. he was dumber than naruto
     
  17. Kiba's Slut Boy World's #1 Kiba Inuzuka Fanboy

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    > The Naruto Franchise makes the anime/manga industry overall look bad (sorry, but it's True)
     
  18. Blu-ray Moderator Moderator

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    I just filed that under hypocrisy. I got the impression that he didn't do it out of self importance, but out of wanting to be impartial to Boruto. But yeah, it was incredibly fucking hypocritical and a tad shallow. Seemed bizarre even.
     
  19. -Ziltoid- writer of words

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    Really? It seemed to me that the whole 'Hokage Naruto' things is just massively out-of-character. :hm

    Just as much as Sasuke's actions seemed OOC to me, tbh. Gaiden was a giant clusterfuck, with regard to the characterizations, and the Boruto movie/manga seems to focus too much on the next gen to bother with giving proper closure for the old gen :apathy
     
  20. Blu-ray Moderator Moderator

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    It really was weird, but it's all thanks to Kishi heavily projecting his own issues as a father and parent onto them, despite it just not fitting. Right up their with paperwork being tiring for the likes of Naruto. Contrived shit for the sake of plot.:meh
     
  21. -Ziltoid- writer of words

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    And yet none of the editors ever told him that it was bullshit.. then again, considering how SJ has been butchering stories it would be wrong to expect anything worthwhile from them. I mean, the way Naruto ended was bad, but look at Bleach :catdude
     
  22. Blu-ray Moderator Moderator

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    Seemed like he had more free reign, seeing as this was what he wanted to write according to him and it was the supposed grand finale.

    As for bleach, Kubo said he ended bleach on his own terms, hard to believe as that is. Plus while SJ might have given bleach the axe, Naruto had the opposite problem of being milked too much.
     
  23. Serene Grace

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    - Part 1 was ridiculously superior to part 2 in terms of plot, character development, etc.

    - War arc wasn't all that bad

    - Sakura is overrated
     
  24. HoroHoro ---

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    Controversial opinion, friendo. Not universal opinion.
     
  25. Serene Grace

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    Lol, that's weird. Most of the people I've seen have said that Part 2 is better than part 1.
     
  26. Suekay Active Member

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    - Kakashi without the Sharingan isn't anywhere near as weak as many seem to think he is. For one he'll have more chakra now since the Sharingan isn't constantly draining it, and he can likely still make partial use of Chidori and Raikiri if conditions are right.
    - Naruto is a good dad as evidenced by all the family pictures around the house, but not a perfect one. The Boruto movie was their family going through a bad patch as virtually all families do.
    - Boruto is a brat (but he has heaps of potential and a lot of room to improve and I hope he does). Sarada has far more valid reasons for acting up and yet she doesn't.
    - If Obito had gifted his Sharingan to just about anyone else in Konoha, they would likely not have been able to learn to utilise it like Kakashi did.
    - There's no way Sakura surpassed Tsunade during the war. Perhaps by the time of Boruto she has, but in sheer depth of knowledge and experience Tsunade still has her soundly beaten by the end of part 2.
    - Hiruzen was the worst Hokage by far. Not the weakest, but the worst in terms of leadership abilities.
    - Yamato deserved better
    - I've always believed that Hinata never wanted to be a ninja in the first place and only became one as she felt it was her duty
     
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  27. -Ziltoid- writer of words

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    Over here? Seems doubtful :psyduck
     
  28. Corvida Anda de dia la noche es mia

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    Love starved orphans

    Spoiler:















    Longed for his dad´s aknowledgement to the point of burning himself training had his first family brutally massacred by idolized bro and his clan ethnic cleansed by gov orders.

    Spoiler:






    ç














     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2016
  29. -Ziltoid- writer of words

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    Well, at best I'd consider the first half of shippuuden to be best- 'till the point where Nagato gets his TnJ and dies.
    Or perhaps art-wise.
    But the overall story and character development? Pt1 wins with ease.

    Exactly. Considering their pasts their 'developments' in Gaiden and the Borrito movie make so little sense it could be considered to be SP-tier filler trash :catdude
     
  30. Raiden I'm with <b><font color="#ff6600">COCO</font></b>

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    1. It was a good idea to expand the characters and plot of part two.
    2. Sasori vs. Sakura was a waste of an arc since the series really didn't follow much with this story (characterization, pace).
    3. While the new characters injected fresh energy into the series, it might have been a good idea to just continue with the old cast.
     

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