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Thanos (on Titan) vs Surter

Discussion in 'Outskirts Battledome' started by Gibbs, May 18, 2019.

  1. Adamant soul

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    Thanos should be able to beat Surtur with four stones (he'd beat basically at that point anyone short of Dormammu), in particular I don't see what Surtur is going to do about the reality stone.

    As for Base Thanos vs Hela, there's probably a reason Thanos retrieved the Power Stone before he even went to Asgard. :maybe

    Mjolnir would have amped Captain America to Dark World or start of Ragnarok Thor levels at best. You simply need to look at Steve's performance against Thanos and compare it to Thor's first encounter with Hela to see who wins.
     
  2. Fang

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    Potentially.

    Unlikely and a stretch to say the least.
     
  3. Adamant soul

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    Well that's the time period that Mjolnir came from so that should be the minimum I would think.
     
  4. Fang

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    The issue would be he just has Thor's lightning powers up to the start of Dark World if we accept that, but the enchantment itself is based from the first Thor movie when Odin banished him. Either way, its very no-no to suggest Ragnarok Thor in this case.
     
  5. xenos5

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    Pretty sure it was revealed in Ragnarok that the Hammer just helps Thor control/focus his power. So logically rather than boosting Steve to the same extent it would boost Dark World Thor it would actually still act as a conduit and channel the current Thor's power (which fits more with the ""Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." line) and raise him to the same level.

    Steve also wields Stormbreaker for a brief time and there's no notable difference despite Stormbreaker being a much more powerful weapon than Mjolnir, so Steve just being raised to Endgame Thor's level because he's channeling that Thor's power regardless of whether he's wielding Mjolnir or Stormbreaker would explain this.
     
  6. ShinAkuma

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    He's an interesting question - Was Cap's physicals boosted or did he just get the lightning powers?

    Thor's physical ability is part of his Asgardian heritage, so it's technically not a power. I also took note watching Endgame that Cap didn't seem physically at least, much different than he normally operates.

    Maybe the writers/directors will clarify as they seem to be adding alot of info after the fact.
     
  7. John Wayne

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    Mjolnir Thor can't even dent Cap's shield. And considering Thanos stomped lightning god Thor, Worthy Cap might actually be stronger than Thor pre Ragnarok.


    I've pointed this out earlier, Thor doesn't actually achieve control over his true god powers until after he's disarmed and sees that scene with Odin.

    Furthermore he doesn't actually perform worse against Hela after that point as she's unable to beat him with the same casual ease she did in that moment where he had neither Gungnir nor his lightning god powrs.
     
  8. Sablés

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    On a career ship.
     
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  9. Black Leg Sanji

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    The energy required to crush Mjolnir was calced to be way higher than the Tesseract anyway..

    Unless Drivell wants to argue Teratons > Petatons :maybe
     
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  10. Dreams of Tommorow

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    no he’s going to say she had special asgardian fingers that give her special strength over special asgardian items
     
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  11. Fang

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    Only up to the first Avengers movie.

    Thanos stomped a Thor who was exhausted from fighting Hela and her Berserkers. That's when he fucking attacked the Revenger's ship in Infinity War. The Black Order jumps Thor and friends literally minutes after they escape the destruction of Asgard.

    And I stated, which you ignored, he was already starting to possess his Lightning God powers and had Gungnir, which gives a MASSIVE boost to its user, and still got absolutely wafflestomped by her with little effort.

    What? Lmao, he did nothing to her. Other than once or twice hitting her with his lightning, she was shrugging off everything he did and still throwing him and Valkyrie around like red-headed step children. She disarmed him in the throne room even when had Gungnir and took his eye, and couldn't land a proper hit after she got pissed off.

    He was not a match for her in either fight by a hilarious margin. There's a reason why Loki outright states they aren't shit to her together even 2v1, there's a reason why with Valkyrie and his full powers manifested, they aren't shit to her, and there's a reason why with Gungnir which is only used by the King of Asgard, which gives a massive buff to its user's power (like letting Loki fight Thor on equal footing), couldn't do much but hold out for a few moments before he got overpowered again.

    The scale between the two is huge.
     
  12. John Wayne

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    Where is it ever shown or stated that Gungnir gives massive boosts like you claim? A specific lack of evidence against that being the case =/= evidence for that being true.
     
  13. ShinAkuma

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    1 strike?

    Cap's shield did tank a few hit from Thanos before going down I thought?

    Whoa there homie. Thanos fought Thor off screen and he had the power gem + the Black Order with him. We have no idea how difficult the fight was.

    Not to mention the Tesseract calc is inapplicable. The cube was never heated as such there is no feat for the Tesseract to support the calc.
     
  14. OneSimpleAnime

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    Mjolnir is >> Cap’s shield by feats anyway, Vibranium is like country-continent level at best
     
  15. Yusuke Uramesh1

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    Thanos easily. Power stone destroys planets
     
  16. Fang

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    It was shown when Loki was able to fight on par with Thor equally at end of Thor 1. It is also stated in the MCU Handbook for Thor 1 that it gives the user a power amp, just like how Loki with the Scepter that had the Mind Stone in it was again able to fight Thor somewhat equally. Those are the only times Loki has ever been able to stand his ground in a fight with Thor.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  17. Divell

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    And this is when you know whoever you debate with is factual lying. You do know Hogun did watch how Hogun hut her in the face right?
     
  18. Fang

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    >factual lying

    A hit to the face ! = hurting Hela
     
  19. Divell

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    You literally said he never landed a blow on her.

    Get the fuck out of here.
     
  20. Fang

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    Nah. You literally claimed an Asgardian soldier is Odin tier because he shanked her from behind and then tried to argue about cherry picking. Do you know what hypocrisy means? Because you are the living example of it.
     
  21. Divell

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    I never said he was Odin tier. And if I did I want you to point to that instant.

    I was talking about how the spear of a random asgardian does not break against her skin and can still stab her. As an answer for you claiming Hela is stronger than Thanos because Thanos never tried to break Mjolnir and he was getting "injured" by it.

    You literally have no argument on your said, trie to switch the blame and straight up lie to cover your erronic arguments.

    When someone does not care on giving you an answer to answer as dumb as "is the tesseract made to be used as a blunt weapon" you claim that the person agrees with you.

    You are a horrible debater.
     
  22. ShinAkuma

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    One could argue that Hela kept on increasing in strength. So in the Hogun fight she wasn't at full strength but by the time she fought Thor she was?
     
  23. Divell

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    Thanos noob difficulted the Hulk when he got up from the surprised attack. Which push him around and when slammed him against the wall, Thanos showed clearly to have felt that one.

    Hulk was slower than Ragnarok Thor but still was getting up from Thor's punches like nothing.

    And Thanos had no injury or burns or damage after the fight and was lifting Thor like a shopping bag at the end of the offscreen fight. He lol difficulted him.
     
  24. Fang

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    You tried to cherry pick, something you accused me of. Academically dishonest protocol from you as per usual.

    And you got blown out when you were unable to cite when I brought up specific evidence of the only time a spear doing damage, even slightly, to Hela, was when Thor was using Gungnir via special visual effects to cue a reaction to it vs the random Asgardian mook soldier's spear. Which you didn't offer a counter-argument to because you had nothing.

    As well to the fact you for the repeated time avoided my question: do you think a random Asgardian soldier is more powerful than an Asgardian warship? I'll wait.

    And the fact that for the 10th fucking time I've asked you explain why Cap was actually causing grunts and bellows of pain from Thanos even without using Mjolnir, and you answered with: nothing. So you are 0-3 here.

    I have no arguments, literally? You ad naseum repeat the same tired debunked shit over and over. You make nonsensical and irrational appeals to try and win face in a debate, which you never have and never will. Once more: explain why Cap was an issue for Thanos without any Infinity Stones and harming him enough to cause him to moan in pain even without Mjolnir. And explain why he has an inability to break Mjolnir.

    Occham's Razor is on my side, not yours.

    You've given up, this is why you are trying a crappy poisoning the well fallacy. No one is buying what you are peddling, kiddo.

    Nah, I'm one of the most effective debaters on this forum, while you are incapable of giving a rebuttal to a simple question and constantly evading and moving the goal posts.

    Try again.
     
  25. Divell

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    Which would put Thunder God Thor and by extention Hulk and everyone comparable far above Mjolnir.

    It was unclear how her connection to Asgard and her powers were. And would put Hogun above Mjolnir was well.

    Do we really belive that? No. How many times we have see in fiction weapons being used against opponents that can obviously break them. Hell. Remember, all weapons in Asgard, may very well be made from the same metal. At least Stormbreaker and Mjolnir are.
     
  26. Fang

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    I really doubt Hogun is that strong, because any level of strength Hela is or isn't at isn't going to put him via relation to the same par as even Thor in his first movie/outing. Only thing we can take from his performance is that Hogun is much better than the other two members of the three. He smacks her once in the face and she just tanks it.
     
  27. ShinAkuma

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    I'm actually just referring to her durability ie: getting run through with that sword vs no selling Gungnir.
     
  28. Fang

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    That's potentially possible but it would still be a discrepancy because I doubt the dude's spear is stronger than Thor's fist.
     
  29. ShinAkuma

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    It's a piercing weapon vs blunt force. I don't see a discrepancy.
     
  30. Divell

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    You literally said this
    When is clearly show he was.

    You claimed before she did not had any effect even though she shows a face of pain and disconfort.

    We never see him fucking try to crush the hammer. You cannot argue inability just because he seems hurt. Hulk hurt him, look how it ended for him.

    Also, Cap momentarily overwhelming Thanos is more to his fighting capabilities. And we see later on how he quickly disarm him and proceeds to attacking with his sword breaking the shield in the process. We also later see how throws both Thor and Cap off him like they are little more than a neusance.

    I haven't given up on anything. If you are simply going to straight up lie to cover your arguments or change the subject I simply wont bother on responding to them.

    Your whole argument comes down on Hela is stronger because she broke Mjolnir and Thanos did not and was managing Thor without much issue.

    And Thanos was being hurt by Cap using Mjolnir and having "issues" fighting "a much weaker Thor".

    Here is the issue:

    Hela breaking Mjolnir and Thanos not bothering in breaking it is subsequentially not an argument for Hela > Thanos.

    Thor later fights her and while she is dominating the fight for the most part, she still shows no signs of even breaking Thor's bones or leaving bruises. Meaning Thor is > Mjolnir.

    Hell, Hulk is physically stronger than Thor and he was no match for Thanos in a straight brawl. Thor with his Thundergod powers was while sending Hulk flying not showing any evidence to keep the Hulk down for more than two seconds, while there are two instances where Thor uses his lightnings and Hela is out of the fight for several minutes.

    Sure. It can be attributed of him using "weaker ligtnings" against Hulk, yet we later see Hulk physically pushing Surtur (whom was feeling little but disconfort towards Hela's attacks).

    Even if ultimately show Hulk to be able to physically push him, do we consider him more powerful than Hela? No, obviously no. He may be physically stronger, but he won't put her down for good or do any lasting damage on her, while she can likely turn him into a shishkebab (probably, idk).

    Is the same issue with Thanos and Hulk. According to the Russos, Thanos was equally as strong as Hulk, but Hulk ultimately loses because he fights like an amateur, while Thanos is a master fighter. Same Russos call him the stronger villain in Marvel so far and that he was even more dangerous without the stones than he was with the stones because he is no longer fucking around.

    Thanos can break Mjolnir. He literally never tries.
     
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