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the Akatsuki are not that strong

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Shinobi No Kami00, May 27, 2005.

How strong is the Akatsuki?

  1. the Akatsuki are the strongest villains ever

    25 vote(s)
    22.1%
  2. the Akatsuki are the strongest villains at present

    64 vote(s)
    56.6%
  3. the Akatsuki are strong but not the strongest villains

    20 vote(s)
    17.7%
  4. the Akatsuki are ordinary petty criminals

    3 vote(s)
    2.7%
  5. I don't know

    1 vote(s)
    0.9%
  1. Shinobi No Kami00

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    *SPOILER*


    From the translation :

    Chiyo: In the history of the Sand, including gaara, these "Jinchuuriki" have appeared three times.

    sakura: ...how are "Bijuu" like that...
    ...removed from their vessels?

    cho: You need a Fuuin Jutsu (art of seals) that can exhibit a force propotionally potent enough, even if
    just for a split second, to balance out the power of the "Bijuu".
    You need a lot of time for this.

    cho: The two other "Jinchuuriki" of the Sand besides gaara, who I mentioned just now...
    Their reason of death... was because Shukaku was eventually removed from them.

    *end of quote from translation*

    Many people think that the Akatsuki are the ultimate shinobi. Some even claim that they are invincible. Well, chapter 261 proves that is not so. How? Simply this:
    1. An extraction has been done twice before.
    2. Therefore at least two groups have been as powerful as the Akatsuki coz they had the chakra and jutsus to perform such extraction.
    3. NarutoWorld today is not dominated by jinchuurikis.
    4. Therefore previous groups have failed to dominate NarutoWorld even if they can extract and possibly re-seal these jinchuuriki.

    What does that imply? It implies that its a big NarutoWorld out there, there are several nins that can equal or surpass the strength of the Akatsuki.

    Questions:

    1. Which is more difficult, sealing a youma or extracting a youma?

    2. If sealing is as difficult as extracting, does that mean that the former KazeKage (though I think he had help, possibly from the Sand siblings) and Yondaime are at least as strong as the entire Akatsuki?
     
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  2. Code

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    Or those ninjas could just be using better techniques not neccesarily stronger... I'm sure Sakura is stronger in genjutsu than Naruto... doesn't mean she's that much stronger...

    But I did think that at first with the whole 'balancing out the demon.' but I guess their special just may not be sealing or extracting.
     
  3. Lord Of Reapers

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  4. Blue Supporting Staff Retired Staff

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    While I do think that the Akatsuki aren't nearly as strong as everyone makes them out to be (I voted "petty criminals" because I'm an ass like that) your reasoning is a bit convoluted.

    They never said that it was criminals who extracted the previous Jinchuuriki. It may of been a hidden village, extracting the bijuu from an injured, and therefore worthless, Jinchuuriki.
     
  5. Tautou

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    In response to each of your four points:

    1). Since when are the Akatsuki strong just because they're able to extract demons?
    2). The "two groups" could have taken longer, had more people, been seal specialists, so on and so on... They don't have to be even nearly as strong as the Akatsuki to be able to extract demons. And I don't know how you automatically assumed it was a group that did so, considering Cho's knowledge of the matter, it seems that it was the Hidden Sand that just decided to remove the demons.
    3). How does this mean that the Akatsuki aren't strong?
    4). ...

    In conclusion: I don't understand your logic the least bit.
     
  6. Shinobi No Kami00

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    Actually, I already thought of that. Its just that I refrained from labelling those guys as "evil" or "good" coz both terms are relatives really. Let's assume that the guys that performed the previous extraction are shinobi from a country, not missing nins. They would naturally use the new jinchuuriki (assuming their purpose was to harness the power of Shukaku), to pwn the other villages. They obviously failed since NarutoWorld is at present is not ruled by a single village. While these previous groups are not exactly like the Akatsuki, they are very similar in terms of capabilities (youma sealing and extraction) and intentions (world domination).

    "Injured Jinchuuriki":
    The jinchuuriki, the human vessel, would be weak but the youma itself would be as strong as his/her/it normal self. Its the youma that is important, not the human vessel (technically, its the youma's chakra/power).
     
  7. Chillin

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    The Akatsuki are strong as hell, even if there are only a few nin that can match a member's abilities that is still pretty freakin strong considering there are possibly tens of thousands of ninja out there, and Akatsuki has nine of the best.

    Also going by that logic I could say that Shizune and 3 medical ninjas could own Jiraiya since I doubt Jiraiya could heal the wounds of Neji as quickly as they did.

    Extracting youma is not a gauge of strength. On top of that we do not know the circumstances surrounding the extraction of Shukaku in the previous two instances. Tautou has basically stated what I believe on that whole issue.
     
  8. RAGING BONER

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    Demons are weak anyway, i dont see what the big deal is...
     
  9. RaitoRyuukashin

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    I think its peer pressure Boner, the leader had one now they all want one.
     
  10. Shinobi No Kami00

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    some appreciation for a non-<state blatanty obvious fact here> thread pls.

    A reorganized amd modified version of my reasoning:
    1a. An extraction has been done twice before.
    2a. Therefore at least two groups have been as powerful as the Akatsuki coz they had the chakra and jutsus to perform such extraction.

    1b.(formerly #3) NarutoWorld today is not dominated by jinchuurikis.
    2b. (formerly #4)Therefore previous groups with similar capability as the Akatsuki(see 1a and 2a) have failed to dominate NarutoWorld even if they can extract and possibly re-seal these jinchuuriki.
    I never said they are strong just because they are able to extract demons! Let me explain:
    1. Sealing is a high-level skill. I don't see low-level nins doing fuuin jutsus.
    2. Sealing and extracting a youma, the ultimate beings in NarutoWorld, should be very difficult.
    3. Does their ability to extract youmas indicate that the Akatsuki are strong? Yes! They have the chakra, jutsus and stamina to perform such a difficult task.
    Or they could've done it quicker, had less people and so on... It goes either way. The point is, groups of similar capability as the Akatsuki failed to "obtain everything" (in the swirly eyes' words).

    "Seal specialists"? Even Orochi was surprised than Kakashi (Konoha's top jounin) was able to do seals (when he did a counter evil seal at Sasuke). In order to even perform fuuin, you have to already be strong. To become "seal specialists", you gotta be uber.

    Isn't the Sand shinobis a "group", aka organization? I didn't say "criminal organization", I said "group". It could've been an "good group" or a "bad group". Its just that, as I mentioned in previous post, I did't wanna label groups as "good" or "evil".
    It means that just coz they know how to use the power of the youmas doesn't mean they are going to run over the entire NarutoWorld. Such tricks have been done before, probably by the Sand shinobis. If they really wanted to win the wars, then they would've done what the Akatsuki is doing. That is, gather youmas and use them to destroy their enemies. They probably did and obviously failed.
    To quote you: I don't understand your logic the least bit.

    Chiyo said the youmas' power is beyond human comprehension. If you think they are weak, then ShikiKami is the only thing that can possibly be considered strong. Besides, Deidara (an Akatsuki member) said the power of the jinchuuriki is strong. *shoots down boner's post :laugh *

    Just a prediction:
    I predict that Orochimaru's group will have a better chance of world domination than the Akatsuki.
     
  11. RaitoRyuukashin

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    LoL you mean those sound wimps that got knocked around during the Invasion of Konoha I doubt it. Akatsuki if they got all the demons would only fail if they turned against each other. Otherwise they'd be pretty much Unstoppable. Imagine an Army of Itachi's exploding Kage bunshins Naruto Style or Deidara and Desert Avalanche taking out armies.
     
  12. korican04

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    shinobi, you need to explain why just because other people extracted youma's makes akatsuki look less powerful. Extracting youma's aren't he defining all in how powerful a shinobi is.
    Cause in your first post, you went from "others have extracted youma's" therefore there are shinobi's as powerful or more powerful than the akatsuki. Which you didn't specified why extracting youma's makes you powerful.
    Now in your 3rd post you cleared up your ideas more. I'm just saying that in your first post you should have explained why the extraction of youma's makes your powerful, like being an expert in seals and so on. I see what your trying to say but it wasn't as clear until your third post. just for future reference.
     
  13. Shinobi No Kami00

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    That's a possility. There's a theory about Sasori returning to the Sand. He already has stood up against the leader, maybe someday he will stab (or is it sting?) him in the back :laugh.

    There is also Itachi. He murdered his own family, why should he even hesitate in killing the other Akatsuki if given the chance?
    Sorry, my fault. I got excited after the implications occurred to me that I wanted to post as fast as possible. *I got spanked by korican04 :spank*
    comments on these pls.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2005
  14. Tautou

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    That doesn't make sense. One person in the Akatsuki so far has a jutsu that can remove demons from someone. That doesn't define the entire Akatsuki.

    Not to mention the fact that we don't know the minimum needed to remove a demon. There is no basis for the second statement.

    You can take the info that Shukaku has been sealed in three people before and somehow use it to reach the conclusion that the Akatsuki won't dominate the world... Somehow, I find that strange.

    Your logic is this:

    1). It is hard to remove a demon from someone. Sure.

    2). So a group of people that is able to do this must be strong. Possible. But we still do not know what is needed to do so.

    3). Thus the group must be equal to the Akatsuki. Baseless.

    You do not know what is needed. You do not know how it was done before. You do not have a real base for any of that.

    It would take one person who is able to do the seal jutsu and some others who can support it. The whole group might not have been that strong. Seriously, the gaps in your logic are many. It's useless to attempt to fill them in with random speculation.

    Shukaku was sealed and unsealed into three people before. Just Shukaku. On the other hand, the Akatsuki have managed to gather three different demons.

    Your statement is automatically wrong, 'cause the situation between the Akatsuki and the Hidden Sand is not the same.
     
  15. SofaKing

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    Your argument is based ENTIRELY on speculation. We know of exactly 1 jutsu that was used to seal one of the Bijuu, and it was created by the fourth. This means that can only, at best, speculate that whoever sealed the bijuu in the first place was strong. We also don't know anything about the other Jinchuuriki. They might have been complete failures who were completely unable to use Shukaku's power.

    The evidence we DO have of Akatsuki's power (namely that they're 2-0 with kages) points to them being kage level.
     
  16. EdwardElric

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    Akatsuki is probably the first group to try to assemble ALL the youma together. Before it was probably just each village that had it's own or something.
     
  17. Nakor

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    different seals could have been used to seal each demon too, depending on what the demon gives to the person. so it may be harder to unseal certain demons than others.
     
  18. Shinobi No Kami00

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    2-0 against the Kages? WTF?
    The only Kage that was beaten by the Akatsuki is the rookie KazeKage Gaara. Deidara would've lost if he didn't do the low blow, aka cheat.

    Are you referring to Oro beating Sandaime for the other victory over a Kage? Oro was no longer in the Akatsuki so that doesn't count.

    What about Itachi's and Kisame's retreat? That was twice. Once against Gai and another against Jiraiya.

    If anything, it should be 1 victory and 2 losses.
     
  19. SofaKing

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    Why not? It goes to show the level of shinobi that Akatsuki members are, especailly since he said that he left because Itachi had become stronger than him. That makes 2 members and one ex member stronger than kages, plus the leader who is almost certainly the strongest.

    And there is no cheating in a ninja fight. If you can win through trickery, then you are still the stronger ninja for being clever enough to do it.

    Please try reading the manga for once- Itachi ran away from Gai because he said that there was no point in fighting anymore, and that they weren't there for a war. He ran away from Jiraiya because he had already used up 2/3 of his chakra using MS on Kakashi and Sasuke.
     
  20. GenoBreaker

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    intresting good points
     
  21. SleepingDisaster

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    they're strong, one of them pwned garaa the kazekage
     
  22. Nakor

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    didn't you just agree with him when you said this. he said they ran from them and you just gave reasons for why they ran. im not taking a stance on this argument, but i just thought i'd point that out.

    and if you count oro, then the akatsuki would have got 3 kages, since he killed the kazekage before the invasion.
     
  23. Jiraiya_sama

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    Kabuto is more dangerous by himself than any of the akatsuki imo :nuts
     
  24. Katsura

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    Itachi decided to run away after Gai said they would hold them untill the ANBU members he arranged would come up. Why would Itachi WAIT for them to come? A lot faster to just run, no?
     
  25. SofaKing

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    He classified them as defeats, whereas they were not. By his logic, Temari defeated Sasuke since he ran from the fight with her.
     
  26. Nakor

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    yea...i guess they'd be more like draws.
     
  27. ghostgal

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    Imo oro is as strong as a member of the akatsuki, but not the 9 of them

    Kabuto.. dunno...
     
  28. SofaKing

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    They weren't really fights at all. Itachi never even tried to attack either Gai or Jiraiya.
     
  29. Nakor

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    true they werne't fights, but they were at least forced to back off.
     
  30. crimsoninja15

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    I am a tool therefore I am ninja

    Extracting deomons as u said in your posts is a difficult jutsu. Though we know there are nine tailed demons, each one stronger than the other going by how many tails it has. Meaning if the akatsuki proceed with their plan they are going to extract the fox demon from Naruto. And we know that naruto is the first jinchuuriki to have the nine tails sealed inside of him even though the jutsu that was used to do so was the death god seal. Meaning this seal is difficult to do because the only time we have seen it perform on the fox demon was a failure.

    If the akatsuki extract nine tails from Naruto using the same seal jutsu they have on gaara , indeed thay are strong. Though only time will tell if they ever get the chance.

    But this is only about seal jutsus. There are stronger jutsus that we have yet seen perform from the rest of the akatsuki. And people only say they are weak because not enough of the good guys have been killed. When good guys die people do tend to bitch and cry about it. I wonder if Kishi is scared of killing off characters....
     
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