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The Bishop and the Rook of Akatsuki

Discussion in 'Naruto Theories' started by Dragon Slayer, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. Dragon Slayer

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    As others have already pointed out, Hidan and Kakuzu are symbolized by the bishop and rook pieces in shogi. This shows up in the nature of their powers and relationship, specifically in their strengths and weaknesses of their preferred offenses and defenses. One thing I found particularly enlightening was Kakuzu's statement that he can not kill Hidan. This implies that Hidan can not kill Kakuzu either, which it seems likely for him to have tried, given their personalities. Each one's mode of offense is largely useless against the other's mode of defense.

    Hidan is symbolized by the bishop (which shares the first syllable of his name "Hi") which can move any number of spaces diagonally, but is weak horizontally or vertically. This fits Hidan, with his relatively poor standard ninja skills and his unconventional method of attacking (the damage reflection curse ceremony).
    Kakuzu, on the other hand, seems to be very straight forward, like the rook which symbolizes him ("Ka"). As the rook moves any number of spaces vertically or horizontally but is weak diagonally, he seems to use powerful but not unusual taijutsu with great strength.

    So what does this tell us about them? When a rook and a bishop are pitted against each other, they can't really defeat each other without a large of amount of assistance from other pieces; the rook moves out of the diagonal path of the bishop and vice versa. Kakuzu's physical style of offense appears useless against a guy who can have his head cut off and live to talk about it. To defeat Hidan's immortality requires a particular trick, as did defeating his curse ceremony.

    So why can't Hidan defeat Kakuzu? We've seen Kakuzu's skin change color briefly. My theory is that Kakuzu either can make his skin unbreakable, or can change his body to stone or metal. Either way, Hidan would not be able to draw blood from Kakuzu, and thus would be unable to use his curse ceremony to hurt him.
     
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  2. Godeiche

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    Very interesting, indeed... Reps for that.

    Could other shogi pieces be represented in Akatsuki as well?
     
  3. Shinji

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    Great job, but do you think of shikamaru because asuma compared him to a knight, while asuma compared himself to a pawn. Do you think works the same for shikamaru against Hidan and Kakazu, that shinkamaru can't kill them because knights, rooks, bishops are basically the same, and it would take a king or queen to kill them. Do you think this basically predicts asumas death due to the fact he is sacrifical pawn, that might be used to save a knight? reps to you bro.
     
  4. Grrblt

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    I'm no expert but do Shogi rooks and bishops really move the same way as their Chess counterparts?
     
  5. Production

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    Wow, you did a wonderful job on telling how the how not-killing-hidan thing balences out. Reps for you, and some more reps if this proves to be true.
     
  6. Shisui

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    This thread is awesome.

    Yeah. That's why they're called the bishop and the rook :p. Though I think they can get promoted and move differently.
     
  7. QuoNina

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    That's an interesting metaphor you brought up about how they just can't get rid of one another. =)

    This coincidentally fit into another speculation that I heard of:
    Kakuzu <-- elephant.

    The animal perspective of Hiden and Kakuzu are interesting as well.
     
  8. Ofkinheimer

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    I know that this is just a theory but some of your assumptions need some work.

    First off, exactly how did you come to a conclusion that Hidan has "poor" standard ninja skills?

    That is VERY far reaching.
     
  9. TicoTico

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    Indeed a great observation! Glad I checked the Theories-section for once :p
    To quote ShounenSuki from the thread in question:
     
  10. kuchiyoseNOjutsu

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    Interesting dude, I honestly like your analogy, and it does make sense.
     
  11. Marsala

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    Interesting... unfortunately, you have the shōgi names for rook (hisha) and bishop (kakugyō) reversed. So it is actually Hidan who is the rook and Kakuzu who is the bishop.
     
  12. Chatulio

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    Just reverse the two and the theory work could still work :oh
     
  13. Dragon Slayer

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    Oh well, with my Japanese skills couldn't manage to directions to the bathroom.

    That seems odd though, since thematically, Hidan is the religious one, the bishop, and Kakuzu is grounded in the real world, as is a rook or castle.

    Oh, my opinion of Hidan's skills was RELATIVE to the other members of akatsuki. I can't see any of the other members we've seen getting caught offguard by Team Asuma's initial attack (with the exception now of Tobi, but that doesn't count, it's for comic relief.) He claimed himself that he has the slowest attack speed in Akatsuki.
     
  14. Vox

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    Mmhmm, it makes sense to compare Hidan and Kakuzu to Shōgi pieces seeing as how Asuma compared Shikamaru aswell as himself to pieces.

    Now, because Asuma compared himself to a pawn which is in general a piece used to set up opponents pieces, I believe (As well as many others) that Asuma will have to sacrifice something in order for Shikamaru (Or the knight) to take out either Hidan or Kazuku.

    The entire battle could possibly be compared to a Shōgi game.
     
  15. fungus

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    Very good thread. thanks for interesting read =)
     
  16. 4ghost

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    That is very interesting. To add to the whole shōgi symbolization it could be possible for Asuma to end up being a captured piece that is forced to switch sides. This entire battle could even be compared to the very shōgi game that Shikamaru and Asuma had earlier. They showed Asuma the pawn both the bishop and rook, and I think they also showed shikamaru's knight.
     
  17. Sasori

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    Yes. Itachi is a mere pawn.
     
  18. Blue Supporting Staff Retired Staff

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    Don't be silly, Itachi's the drag Queen.
     
  19. Mezu

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    The real question is what is superior, if used right... the rook and bishop or the pawn and knight? And how can either side effectively exploit the others weaknesses, especially since the pawn and knight are seemingly at a disadvantage?
     
  20. Rikudou

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    Makes a lot sense, and I like it.
    Kishimoto, those symbolisms!:nuts
     
  21. Tyrannos

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    After reading this post, it occured to me that the Shougi board in Chapter 316could be one of Kishimoto's hints of what is to come.

    So could our resident Shougi players take a look and compare the board with the action with Hidan and Kakuzu.
     
  22. hidan is teh rook, kakuzu is teh bishop.
    shikamaru is supposedly a knight and asuma is a self claimed pawn.
    naruto is presumed teh king, bcoz he is the akatsuki's target.

    asuma is teh pawn...... and the pawns of 2day are the queens of tmr :p . lets see wot happens neways
     
  23. ChipsAndSnacks

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    Haven't played chess in a while, but I've seen things done which may fit. Usually an aggressive player would be taking piece after piece without thinking and usually those pieces would be of little value. Like opening up their lines so their Queen for example can move around and take some pieces but be greedy and take a useless pawn in a strategic position and get eliminated by a Knight.
    An intelligent player would set up his pieces to allow said pieces to be taken only to blindside his opponent and cripple him by eliminating his most powerful pieces.
    Asuma being stabbed, and Izumo Kotetsu being choked out is probably a position Shikamaru can work with in a drastic attempt though. May possibly pull something crazy which may cripple either Akatsuki.
    Hopefully this Asuma/Shika Shogi thing comes into play soon. We haven't seen any of it in play yet.
     
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