1. AAB SEASON THREE

    Sign up now!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Stop Scrolling!
    Attention - When discussing new chapters of an anime or manga, please use a source from the official list of approved sources. If you would like to contribute to the list, please do so in the suggestions section.
    Dismiss Notice

The forced marriage

Discussion in 'My Hero Academia' started by Xiammes, Jul 14, 2018 at 4:30 AM.

  1. Xiammes All For One Administrator

    Messages:
    22,467
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Trophy Points:
    1,718
    Reputation:
    Endeavor apologist thread :zaru

    Just want to present some info, its unknown if Endeavor and Rei had a forced marriage, Shouto said it, but we haven't heard it from everyone else. The most monstrous thing we have heard is that Endeavor call Shouto his greatest creation, but that isn't proof in of itself. There is also the problem of how he would have found it out. I doubt his mom would tell him of such complicated stuff to a 5 year old, nor would he really comprehend, I don't think Endeavor would go on bragging about it. This leads me to think Shouto either made it up to rationalize it or was told by one of his sibilings(I don't think Shouto would talk to his mom's side all that much), who fall into the same problem of I don't think anyone would have told them at such a young age either.

    Some other things to consider is that Endeavor and Rei were together for at least 13+ years before she got sent to a mental hospital. That is a long time to stay in a loveless marriage.

    Fuyumi is 22 years old and Shouto is 15 or 16, That means Rei had 4 children in the span of 7-8 years with Endeavor, that is a highish rate, but that is still a rate of roughly one child every 2 years. She wasn't just constantly pumping out babies like we would imagine.

    We also have to consider how long it takes for a child to manifest their quirk. By the time the second child manifested his quirk, Shouto would have been born. As far as we know there were no other kids after Shouto, meaning Endeavor went 4 years without a child without knowing that Shouto would have manifested his quirk(hair color gives this away but it doesn't mean anything till they manifest it).


    There is still not enough evidence to prove either way, the key to determining it will be if Dabi is a Todoroki or not and that will shed light on the situation. Just wanted to make this thread to organize my thoughts.
     
    Tags:
  2. Yak Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    26,913
    Likes Received:
    999
    Trophy Points:
    1,268
    I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is aside from organizing your thoughs? I mean, for what purpose? Are you looking into whether it is a forced marriage or not? Or are you looking into whether Dabi can logically be a Todoroki?
     
  3. Xiammes All For One Administrator

    Messages:
    22,467
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Trophy Points:
    1,718
    Reputation:
    Looking into figuring out if there was a forced marriage or not and get some thoughts and opinions. Dabi is logically possible a Todoroki, I want to figure out when did Endeavor's madness start.
     
  4. Yak Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    26,913
    Likes Received:
    999
    Trophy Points:
    1,268
    I don't know when it started. Most certainly somewhere between the birth of the first child and Shoutou's birth. But I am fairly certain I know when it ended. Namely when mom got sent to the hospital. Because I simply doubt that with the verdict on her mental health, the family stayed together as it was. The older siblings likely moved out and elsewhere. Shoutou might've stayed in the household but I assume that for the most part, employees took care of daily business such as actual household work and basic education was likely provided at a kindergarden or via private tutors. No way Endeavor managed or even bothered with handling the entire household plus kids by himself while pursuing a successful hero career as the No.2 hero with the most solved cases country-wide.

    This is sort of the biggest gripe I have with some frothing Endeavor antagonists who still treat the man as if he had the epiphany just yesterday that some of his life choices have been absolutely terrible when, in fact, the oldest confirmed references go back to Shoutou being a kid of five years old. Since he is about 15/16 years old now, that means the ultra tense period where all that shit escalated was nearly a whole decade ago at the beginning of the actual manga already. A lot can change about a person in a whole decade.
     
  5. Xiammes All For One Administrator

    Messages:
    22,467
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Trophy Points:
    1,718
    Reputation:
    I think the first real shock to his system was Deku standing up to him, it wasn't anything huge, but it could have been the jostle that started it. Endeavor finally had the opportunity to act like a father to Shouto, he was like a puppy excited to please his owner. "Look shouto, I'm going to fetch that ladies purse, going to chase down this villain, look at all the stuff I can do".

    However I think the moment he woke up and came to the realization was him seeing All Might during the AFO fight, that is what woke him up out of his madness. I like your idea of the moment he had to send her to the hospital, but I don't think he put all that much thought into it then and its been a slow process.
     
  6. Yak Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    26,913
    Likes Received:
    999
    Trophy Points:
    1,268
    I wouldn't go so far as call it madness. Endeavor was never a madman other than in figure of speech. He was all sort of things from an overzealous hardliner to an ambitious hero to an clueless and immature father that didn't understand what a child needed and just kept projecting his own needs onto his offspring. But he was never a lunatic or crazy. Misguided at worst. He didn't get a kick out what he did. He did not gain a feeling of superiority from it (if anything, it just kept frustrating him because what he really wanted was an idea of progress which he felt was denied to him due to the shortcomings from his children and his wife). He is not a sadist despite his largest critics almost always categorizing him as such.

    I think multiple factors started cracking open that shell of his; I believe he already had his own thoughts, doubts and regrets of his past but prior to the series's start and Deku's influence on both him, and Shouto, there was little time and opportunity for Endeavor to introspect on his own faults and then actually act out upon those realizations -because he had to live both a private and a public life and when your inner foundation is shaken to the core, you can't go out there and pretend to be the hope for the people. Thus he probably just pushed it away somewhere inside and kept doing what he did, all the while these self-doubts and the guilt which he felt also nagged him inside. Not for a minute do I believe he only started realizing what he did to his family from the moment of All Might's retirement or when Deku was sorta standing up to him. That seems awfully shortlived for such rather big life realizations which often take years to fully manifest and come to fruitition.

    What I do agree with you here is that those things were catalysts which allowed Endeavor to show his own change outwardly, too, little by little. When All Might fought and retired after AFO, the image of the past which he used to have of his own little world and what is important finally crumbled completely. Which is why he temporally lost it and smashed his own dojo to bits. Because his raison d'etre had just vanished right from under his feet. And what was left was a grown man who had sacrificed the happiness of his family, perhaps a bit of his own happiness for a goal that no longer even existed. It must have been incredibly humbling, hurting, pitifull and silly for him to have given so much and ultimately receiving nothing out of it because there was no All Might left to surpass. It was certainly eye-opening and caused him to question the image he had of himself and what it meant to be the No. 1 hero and a symbol of peace. The way Deku and Shouto both kept defying the expectations OTHERS had of THEM was also a necessary reminder and factor in this because it showed Endeavor you can be successful in your own ways while not being dependend on what others want out of you.

    And if he genuinely realized that about himself, it doesn't take long to come to the conclusion that he did exactly that to his family - that he pushed his expectations which he couldn't fulfill himself on his family and thus stunted his own and their growth, both their happiness, wellbeing and love.


    I can understand peopel being bitter about Horikoshi redeeming Endeavor here because the stuff that happens on panel is rather sudden and may even feel a bit shoehorned at face value but a lot of this stuff I wrote above is so between the lines or just very vaguely implied that you can easily miss it. But I firmly believe that this all happened with Endeavor which is why this redemption of his seems a lot more plausible and well-made for me than it does for others.
     
  7. Plexa Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    347
    Likes Received:
    110
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Reputation:
    Your logic would probably be quite sensible if applied to a real-life situation, but in works of fiction you can afford to give character statements more weight, and quite often you need to. Unless the character is a known liar or exaggerator, or unless the subject matter has some value as a plot twist, you can within reason take character statements as statements by the author.

    That said, Horikoshi might downplay the forced marriage aspect if he finds he has his plate full with redeeming Endeavour's character. I'm not going to be one of the people who cries about Endeavour having a redemption arc, and I'm not going to be one of the people triggered over 'SJW's, but the truth is Horikoshi is trying to tackle very touchy subject matter, and it can be quite difficult to redeem someone who's done what Endeavour's being accused of. The end result will probably come down to Horikoshi's writing skill.

    Also, bear in mind that Endeavour is currently going through a character development arc which is for all intents and purposes, most likely a redemption arc. The arc may have some other purposes such as organising the League of Villains' plans, giving more weight to Dabi, strengthening/weakening the view of heroes among the general public, and developing Shoto's character, but Endeavour very much has the spotlight. There's no point in having a redemption arc if the character in question hasn't done anything awful, and statements from the characters close to them are usually a pretty good indication of what the author's intended for them to have done.

    There's not really much need for Endeavour 'apologism' threads, either, since Horikoshi is literally working on that in the story as we speak.
     
  8. pumkin1988 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    206
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    168
    Reputation:
    I think a lot of people have their own ideas on what a "forced marriage" is. I would like to say I am more open than most and see the benefits of said situations rather than what the "emotions" or "feelings" the characters have.

    For example: Did Endeavor beat her to half-death (btw I never believed the physical abuse aspect some people here like to claim) and marry her on the indication that if she didn't say yes he would kill her? Did he have someone with a mind-altering quirk to lure her into the marriage via abduction? Did he drug her and marry her while she was unresponsive? All these acts I would consider a true "forced marriage."

    Now, if her Father and family agreed that Endeavor was a suitable bachelor and made conditions for them to be wed (like in olden times and with nobles/royalty) then I don't see that as a forced marriage at all no matter how the female feels. I'm anime-only viewer so I don't really know Endeavor's backstory but I'm assuming this happened. I don't think Endeavor was born into money but he does seem to have a lot of connections. I assume those came from her side of the family. Again, I am just assuming these things.

    If she came from a very poor family or 'Ice nation' and Endeavor basically bought her as a mail-order bride then I also don't see this as a forced marriage.

    There are many other scenarios and examples but I'm just saying that "forced marriage" has a different meaning for each person and a lot of them I honestly don't care about. Endeavor is a good guy in my mind. I won't say he didn't emotionally abuse anybody because I think his rage and temper are his character flaws (stubborness too) but I truly don't feel he got physically assaultive-violent with his family until we see more. The Mother is mentally unstable so I'm not about to take her side of things and Shoto was a child. He isn't Itachi-level insight genius so I doubt he knows the whole story. He is basically Sasuke. He was told a version of the story or told a version he believes and that is what we, as the viewers, were also told. We won't know until a flashback when everything comes out.
     
  9. lol 4th dimension reiatsu Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,892
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    243
    Reputation:
    It was an arranged marriage but some things sugest to me that Shouto's mom did like Endeavor. He certainly does like her, as a person.
     
  10. Fleet Admiral Akainu A.K.A. Frank Grimes

    Messages:
    4,675
    Likes Received:
    46
    Trophy Points:
    229
    Reputation:
    Endeaver had to wait until they were old enough to test out their potential. Shouto was 5 iirc. Can't be calling Endeaver a baby shaker.
     
Loading...