1. Ohara Library Banner Contest

    The Beasts Pirates demand your services.
    Join the OL Banner Contest!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Winter is coming one last time...

    Dismiss Notice
  4. Come enter in the KCC Cooking Contest!

    Dismiss Notice
  5. The Anime Awards of 2018 have started! Click here to see the post!

    Dismiss Notice

The future of the Bleach-verse [246 spoilers]

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by Yak, Oct 4, 2006.

  1. Yak on a Forums Break

    Messages:
    40,006
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    Trophy Points:
    1,668
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    Okay, this might sound odd to some but hear me out.

    The recent developments with our guys entering Hueco Mundo and learning more about the world and the Hollows has made me think about something I was pondering about some time in the past. Is it possible for Shinigami, humans and Hollows to live together peacefully?

    So far the answer was clearly ?no?, the worlds just seemed to different from each other, especially SS and HM. Now, lets think this over.

    We know now that there are Hollows and Arrancar in HM who aren?t directly under Aizen?s command. We further know that SS is a spiritual world and HM is even more so concentrated with spiritons, giving enough ?food? for most minor Hollows so that they don?t need to hunt for human souls or Shinigami.

    That basically tells us the only reason why Hollows attack humans and Shinigami to feed their thirst for spirit energy is that there isn?t enough of it in HM to keep all Hollows satisfied.

    Now, with the appearance of the little four-man...err... Hollow freakshow, it seems that there is a grave misunderstanding in ?culture? among those two ?species? Shinigami and Hollow. Shinigami hunt and kill Hollows because they attack human souls and cause a general imbalance to the spirit world since souls won?t be reborn anymore. Hollows and ?Non-Aizen Arrancar? (like Nell) seem to be under the general impression that Shinigami are the ?bad guys?, because they hunt and kill Hollows.

    Now, here comes Ichigo and he might actually close the gap between Shinigami and Hollows by proving that those two groups can get along rather well. If he manages to befriend with Nell and his friends or even other Hollows and Arrancar, this would be the first step for Shinigami and Hollow living together without attacking each other.

    ?But how does that work out, Hollows will still attack humans and cause an imbalance!?
    Not necessarily. First of, if Hollows were allowed to dwell in SS, it could be possible that with the spiritual energy of both SS and HM combined, there is almost enough food for all the Hollows/Arrancar, so they don?t need to feed on human souls.

    Another point might be the general Arrancarification-process, with or without Hougyouku. To me Nell looks rather ?human?-like and not like a starving Hollow who is about to jump every soul he meets. He and his friends actually seem rather bored and they just want to live their fucking boring life in HM and that?s why they play tag forever and ever.

    Same goes for the Arrancar and Espada under Aizen, I don?t get the impression they need that much additional spiritual energy from other souls. Yammy sucked up some souls when he first arrived with Ulquiorra but that seemed to be more out of fun/boredom, not because he needed it.

    Hybrid Arrancar, created by the Hougyouku seem to have partial Shinigami abilities and characteristics, probably their power source also comes from within, just like ordinary Shinigami. That could be the reason why they don?t need to feed on souls anymore or are satisfied with the general spiritual atmosphere of Hueco Mundo.

    All in all I can very well see Hollows and Shinigami get along in the (far?) future, depending on if Ichigo manages to find further friends in HM and prove that Shinigami and Hollows don?t need to be enemies per say.
     
    Tags:
  2. Mukuro Death B4 A Million ?

    Messages:
    18,820
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Don't they do that after they have finished consuming the souls of their loved ones?
     
  3. Yak on a Forums Break

    Messages:
    40,006
    Likes Received:
    1,113
    Trophy Points:
    1,668
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2005
    But whats the reason for it? I doubt the Hollows do that because they have no other choice cause all the Hollows who don't have any loved ones left would be totally screwed then. :p

    I think its just a thing that they go to their former loved ones because they feel that there they can allay their thirst for souls the easiest or it gives them some sort of relief to meet the former beloved ones again. But people who have nothing they could be attached to (be it a person or a place) will probably randomly pick on human souls because they can't allay their thirst in HM.

    Its all theory anyway. ^^
     
  4. Mukuro Death B4 A Million ?

    Messages:
    18,820
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Yea, I see what you mean. But once a soul becomes a hollow, that's when they reach the point of no return. Even if they retain the ability to reason, as long as they stay in that form, they'll always have a chance of becoming evil. Would it be a wise thing to do to put those with hearts and those without hearts together and one day expect them to live in harmony? Lol.

    I think that, even if hollows don't need to consume souls, they still get an urge and want for them. In my opinion, it's like people in employment; everyone wants to make more money and keep their number of hours as low as possible...wanting more, but not needing it.

    I don't think that kind of world could ever come about; it's way too risky and it's collapse is inevitable.

    EDIT: Also, it's bound to be fact that consuming a soul and consuming spiritrons have different sensations.

    With spiritrons it could be like eating rice/pasta/staples every single f***ing day! Lol...and with souls it would be like a gourmet 5-course meal. :p
     
  5. Last of the Arrancar UNDEAD

    Messages:
    6,342
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Ishida was talking about the tiny lizard ... I think anything larger would need to feed on souls.

    Really like the theory, it does seem like there's been some misunderstanding in the past, maybe the hollows WERE good once ( long shot but ya never know with Kubo ).

    They don;t seem to lust for souls, except Yammi we haven't seen them crawling in pain and need to feed on souls.

    And you're talking about HM, it is full of spiritrons, but there is nothing, only sand. And the tiny animal hollows can feed from just the air. Bigger ones need more 'food' than the air can provide, but they can't just eat the sand and cristal trees, so they look for something else, human souls, the only source of spiritrons they can find and eat.

    So what if Aizen brought stuff from SS to convert spiritrons into regular food ? They could feed on that, Kubo never said they actually need souls, maybe they just need spiritrons. And maybe they didn't have the technology like SS to make food and other stuff.

    Would a being that can live only on souls be able to just drink tea ? They wouldn't even like it ...
     
  6. Mukuro Death B4 A Million ?

    Messages:
    18,820
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    At some point hollows need souls. "A soul that becomes a hollow, to fill it's empty heart...seeks out those it loved most in its past life." - Rukia, Chapter 4, pg 11.
     
  7. Last of the Arrancar UNDEAD

    Messages:
    6,342
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    But with an arrancar it may be different. And it's not like they have a choice, there IS nothing to eat in HM. Well now there is ( at least tea ).

    Ever heard of those people who survived that plain crash ( there was a movie about it )? They started eating human flesh too.
     
  8. Mukuro Death B4 A Million ?

    Messages:
    18,820
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Yea, definitely. They've somehow found a way to "go back" cos they remove their masks. But they're still predominantly hollows so the hollow nature determines their actions and behaviour, IMO.
    Just like hollows? :blink
     
  9. Mori` <blink><font color="#DAA520">Sunshine.</font></bli

    Messages:
    24,846
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    nice theory yakkun ^_^

    hmm, maybe the final mastermind of the series really intends to set up a collosal incident in which the barriers between all the spiritual worlds are torn apart, creating one world that is capable of sustaining life for both hollows and pluses.
     
  10. Last of the Arrancar UNDEAD

    Messages:
    6,342
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    not exactly, but if there is nothing else, and you are very hungry ( plus you lost your heart and are as emo as one can get )
     
  11. Zaru ________________________________ Retired Staff

    Messages:
    138,855
    Likes Received:
    268
    Trophy Points:
    3,589
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2006
    Omg Aizen is the final ... ally?

    Now that would be sick, genius Aizen creating a paradise. On the other hand, it would suit him, as he thinks of himself as god.
     
  12. Mori` <blink><font color="#DAA520">Sunshine.</font></bli

    Messages:
    24,846
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    i left it open as final mastermind as it wouldn't be an evil act in the end really, also for the chance that there are people pulling aizens strings and so on as well

    damn/love you kubo for never making things quite clear T__T/^__^
     
  13. Mukuro Death B4 A Million ?

    Messages:
    18,820
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Oh~! I get what you mean now. If there were more alternatives on offer, then souls will no longer be a target. Makes sense, but I bet nothing'd be more revitalising then a living soul. :p Check out the Bounto in the Bounto arc. :p
     
  14. Dragonthorn Sharingan Master

    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Nell's introduction to the series sort of changed my view on the Arrancar. I don't get them now. I always thought Hollows to be id driven, bloodthirsty beings.

    As for Hollows and Shinigami living in harmony, that's just absurd. They have to be in opposite sides, for the balance. It's the natural order of things.
     
  15. omg laser pew pew! is feeling greedy

    Messages:
    18,499
    Likes Received:
    19
    Trophy Points:
    493
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    rammer's theory on Aizen being a good guy is betting more and more plausible with each chapter
     
  16. The Space Cowboy Unfair, Unjust, Human

    Messages:
    19,757
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    For Shinigami and Hollows to form an eventual "Peaceful" understanding--would seem too much like an overused postmodernistic plot device. I hope that's not the direction the story takes. Heck it'd be awesome if that was Tousen's or Gin's plan, and not Aizen's.

    Hollows coexisting with Shinigami? That'd be like Bacteria and White blood cells writing a peace treaty. There's some Bacteria you can live with, but most bacteria in certain places is a big no no. I'm not suprised Nell would consider Shinigami "Bad guys." Anything that hunts and kills your kind on a regular basis is indeed "bad", to you.

    And that tells us pretty much nothing about the final state of things.
     
  17. Mukuro Death B4 A Million ?

    Messages:
    18,820
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Def. agree with that.

    Is there even a way for a fallen soul to stop being evil? I swear hollows only play good when they are beaten into submission. I'm sure Ulquiorra only behaves the way he does because he understands there is nothing he can do to overcome Aizen and he is just waiting for the perfect opportunity to come along so that he can get whatever it is he truly wants.
     
  18. Last of the Arrancar UNDEAD

    Messages:
    6,342
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    There is a difference in being evil and having lost your heart out of grief and sadness. If a hollow wasn't evil in it's life, it's not evil as a hollow, only a hollow is a hollow and has certain hungers and drives. And if that hollow is an arrancar, it won't be all that evil, seeing WW and now Nell, they don't seem evil.

    What's more, you try to look like not being evil when you're in the body of some gruesome monster, only takes a growl and your appearance will do the rest :D.
     
  19. step1 Orochimaru-Sama!!!

    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    First of all 3-4 good/supposedly good hollows doesnt equal peaceful understanding, it's just 3-4 unique and rare individuals, nothing more.

    Secondly
    This seems to be already covered by LotA but to add a twist to this view, if it's a soul, then it has the ability to think and have a personality, so yes it can "stop being evil" otherwise it is not a soul at all.

    Curse you LotA, you said all that I was going to say. :cry

    So yea, becoming a hollow doesnt make you evil, it's a choice, if it wasnt then having any hollow/arrancar/espada fc or loving or hating any of them would be pointless... And you dont create characters for the purpose of being pointless.
     
  20. DideeKawaii Active Member

    Messages:
    2,070
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    This is probably what will happen in the future. I hopefully hope so, but i do hope that it wont get us to know 3 other millions of character that will remain underdeveloped......i dun wanna see other yamcha and chaozu anymore if u know what i mean
     
  21. blazingshadow True Wind Rune

    Messages:
    6,390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    IMO hollows not only eat souls to survive but to get stronger. anyways i do believe that before hollows can coexist with shinigami and humans there might be a wall that has to be breached. that is that born from fear speech from a few chapters ago. i'm kinda saying or suggesting that hollows eat their loved ones to try to get stronger to confront those fears they feel and mortality and blah blah some psychological lesson one has to learn after you die blah blah and that understanding is the best way to get rid of fear etc etc

    in short yes they can coexist but at the same time they can't they will have to be turned into some other species than hollow (with the healed hougyoku) in order to make it work
     
  22. The Space Cowboy Unfair, Unjust, Human

    Messages:
    19,757
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Some people become Hollows quicker than others. Remember the doctor-spirit whom Don Kanonji unintentionally turned into a Hollow? He wasn't very evil in life. Neither was Ichigo presumably.

    I recall that spirits, whether evil or not, eventually decay into Hollows over time. And then there's the case of Sora, who was turned into a Hollow prematurely.

    Yet Hollow Ichigo seems to be a really evil bugger. And Hollow Sora was willing to harm Orihime to some degree. So I'm going to go with the "Generally, Hollows = evil" theory.

    The Arrancar are different. I recall Rukia saying something to the effect that Hollows have a mask to cover the pain of not having a heart. The Arrancar are those who remove their masks, overcoming that pain.

    Arrancar can probably vary. But as the Numeros are formed from Menos Grande--Amalgations of many Hollows, I'm going to take a guess that in general the Numeros will be evil. I withold judgement on the Espada till further notice.
     
  23. Trias For in the sleep of death...

    Messages:
    8,143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Another interpretion; The Arrancar are those who remove their masks, accepting and embracing that pain, not overcoming, not hiding, not covering.

    :)
     
  24. Last of the Arrancar UNDEAD

    Messages:
    6,342
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    I think he was out for money ... but he was an earth bound spirit, and those are spirits that are tormented anyway, for the rest he basically did what all hollows do. Eat souls.

    Yup. When their chain is eroded.

    Yet Hollow Ichigo seems to be a really evil bugger. And Hollow Sora was willing to harm Orihime to some degree. So I'm going to go with the "Generally, Hollows = evil" theory.

    It protected their hollow instincts right ? Someone not as lazy as me should look for the page in the manga ....

    More evil then Mayuri ? More bloodthirsty than Kenpachi ? More cold than Byuakuya ?
     
  25. Trias For in the sleep of death...

    Messages:
    8,143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    How does being cold counts as evil ...
     
  26. Last of the Arrancar UNDEAD

    Messages:
    6,342
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    Cold = no/almost no emotion = could be evil.
     
  27. Trias For in the sleep of death...

    Messages:
    8,143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Wtf with that logic? Not showing them doesn't mean you are an emotionless person. It's ridicilous ...
     
  28. blazingshadow True Wind Rune

    Messages:
    6,390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    it actually makes sence since we are creatures that require emotions. still if others think that you are emotionless, you act like you have no emotions and do nothing about it then you really are emotionless. after all hitler had the best of intentions for humanity when he decided to kill ppl like crazy but that didn't made him a good guy
     
  29. Trias For in the sleep of death...

    Messages:
    8,143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    No it doesn't. We've seen that Byakuya actually feels emotions, stuff about Hisana and his parents and Rukia in the end.

    And why the hell must one expose his emotions? We are creatures that require emotions, not expose them. If others think that you are emotionless, it's simply because they don't know you well. Plus, there can be lots of reasons to be like that, having some problems about expressing emotions or simply fearing from expressing them. Why do people simply label people who don't show emotions like them as emotionless? What kind of prejudice is that?

    And wtf is the relation with Hitler now? ... This is getting worse ...
     
  30. Last of the Arrancar UNDEAD

    Messages:
    6,342
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    403
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2005
    And wasn't Byakuya portrayed as someone evil for a long time ? That's what I mean.

    Doesn't Ulqu act the same ?
     
Loading...