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The logic behind Anti-Edo Tensei Jutsu

Discussion in 'House of Uzumaki' started by PradyumnaR, Aug 10, 2018.

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  1. PradyumnaR The Village Hidden in the Fucks

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    We've seen Madara magically use a technique to reverse the Edo Tensei, drawn from the depths of his nether realms.. But logically how does Madara know about how to counter Edo Tensei?
    If we disregard the plot and Kishi's asspull jutsu, if you were the one writing and had no choice but to make Madara release himself from the Edo, how would you back it with logic?
    Madara "died" way before Tobirama probably invented that jutsu and realistically he should have very little idea about it even if he knew what was happening outside when he was in a vegetative state. So technically he mustn't know how it actually works or how the contract works and what necessarily breaks it.
    If you wrote the story, taking into account the above points, how would you back the ass pull feat with logic ?

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  2. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    He did not, Tobirama invented both ET and Hiraishin way before Konoha establishment.
     
  3. PradyumnaR The Village Hidden in the Fucks

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    Maybe I am not sure on when it was invented. FTG was obviously but no evidence regarding edo or shadow clone. But it wasn't even very well developed to the point that someone could decipher how it works and formulate a counter.
    Not until orochimaru took it further. And the one Madara broke was Kabutos enhanced version. Not even the same one Madara could have known.
    My question is how would you back the feat with logic if you wrote it?
     
  4. Hussain Well-Known Member

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    How do you know that? :hm
     
  5. Hussain Well-Known Member

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    The only way I could think of would be either
    1- make other characters who fought Tobirama do it before leading to Asspulldara (like Gen/Kin, Mu, Gengetsu...etc)
    2- Not make the ET release happen in the first place. :catshrug
     
  6. PradyumnaR The Village Hidden in the Fucks

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    Even if he did, he deemed it kinjutsu and did not use it. So possibilities of someone else also using it so that Madara saw it are slim, and the chances that Madara even saw it in action is even slimmer. And it did change a lot by the time Kabuto used it.
    @hbcaptain... Please take a read too
     
  7. PradyumnaR The Village Hidden in the Fucks

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    My criteria here is that the events happening in the manga are the same... But since the manga is finished, us there anyway you could justify it logically.
    Adding and omitting events is not allowed for the argument sake. The events remain the same. I know it's a weird question but just wanted to know how everyone would use the holistic data of the manga's completion and some how justify it.
     
  8. Hussain Well-Known Member

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    He actually used it. Chiyo, Kin/Gin, Mu...etc etc are all aware of thise jutsu.
    It's no different that how the clone jutsu is also "Kinjutsu" but still used. :catshrug
     
  9. PradyumnaR The Village Hidden in the Fucks

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    I always believed chiyo and the third generation of kage Atleast knew it because orochimaru making it popular. They knew lord second invented it, but pedochimaru made it famous.
    Kin Gin I can imagine encountering the jutsu first hand by Tobirama himself.
    Butyeah. My opinion.
    I just want to know how anyone would logically back it... :catsad
     
  10. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    Proof ?
    The simple fact that Madara developped a counter means that Tobirama invented and developped ET auxiliary techniques to their fullest long ago.
     
  11. King1 The one true King

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    Despite the fact that i love Madara's character, he was the downfall of this series, he defied all laws and logics of the narutoverse but nevertheless, madara shouldn't have been the one to use that jutsu to counter edo tensei, it would be more sensible had it been muu, considering he was alive when hashirama and tobirama were alive and taking into account he went to war with konoha ( First Great Ninja War), so it would be possible that tobirama used edo tensei during the war which would have made him familiar with the jutsu.
     
  12. Yagami1211 The Dragon of Dojima

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    Madara knew the hand seals to break the Edo Tensei summoning contract. That's all there is to it.
     
  13. Sequester Lacking in Luster

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    I forgot that it was originally forbidden... It became so commonplace.
     
  14. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    3.5 people is common?
     
  15. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    Madara knew both about Edo Tensei when he first got back and described to Mu. He has clearly seen it in battle repeatedly which makes sense as Tobirama used to fight his clan/kill his brother for funsies.

    Since he has the Sharingan, it's eye of insight ability would allow him to learn the jutsu by reading it's seals.

    From there a jutsu scientist like Madara would have no problem reversing some hand seals if he needed to get free later.


    If you want a hard question, How the Hell did Tobirama not notice a shadow clone had replaced Madara?
     
  16. Sequester Lacking in Luster

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    Had to be more than that, felt like everybody was doing the shit.
     
  17. PradyumnaR The Village Hidden in the Fucks

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    I always thought the fucker zetsu stealing I fo from orochimaru and giving it to Madara as a possible option to return before he awakened the rinnegan and went with rinne Tensei was kind of an Okay explanation. But yours was good too. As long as Madara saw it in action he could reverse engineer it.
    As for the real question . Shit happens bro. Maybe checking the body would put hashi in the bad light as someone has to check if he got the job done . Checking it meant he doubted his brother's capabilities
    Even Pain failed to notice a Raiton bunshin. So yeah.. Everyone has those days.
     
  18. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    Tobirama, Orochimaru, Kabuto use it. Madara knows the seals. Obito thinks he knows the seals.

    Not so many. Kabuto just spammed an army of em.
     
  19. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    It was a Raiton: Kage Bunshin. Its pretty hard to tell a shadow clone from the original.

    Kabuto even had to tell Rinnegan Madara that Naruto was a clone in 561.

    But Tobirama??
     
  20. PradyumnaR The Village Hidden in the Fucks

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    Like I suggested... Trust in brothers capabilities. Or maybe hashi didn't let anyone touch the corpse of his Bae...
     
  21. Sequester Lacking in Luster

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    Oh I see the miscommunication. I wasnt talking about edo tensei. @Hussain mentioned the shadow clone technique, and how it was originally considered a forbidden jutsu.
     
  22. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I understand now.

    Still those who have it mostly make sense.

    Tobirama
    Hiruzen
    Jiraiya
    Minato
    Kakashi
    Naruto

    Are all in a shinobi lineage, which fits

    Madara has the Sharingan and has seen the jutsu before vs The Senju bros likely.


    So Kiba and Itachi are the only two who have no clear reason to know it, and they're both Konoha shinobi who have seen the jutsu multiple times up close and in person.

    It's not like every rando had it or the other villages ever showed it.

     
  23. PradyumnaR The Village Hidden in the Fucks

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    Doesn't Konohamaru use Kage Bunshin too IIRC??
     
  24. Sequester Lacking in Luster

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    Where there was that random shinobi from Hidden Stone in kakashi gaiden... And Didn't Deidara have some variant of it as well?
     
  25. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    Also part of the lineage lol. This is a directly passed down jutsu for these guys at this point.
    Wasn't that regular Bunshin in the Gaiden?
    And Deidara uses clay clones.
    There's lots of other clone jutsu, but the only one that's a forbidden jutsu is the Multiple Shadow Clone Jutsu which only Kakashi and Naruto use.
     
  26. Plexa Well-Known Member

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    I think it's inaccurate to say he 'broke' through it. He rescinded the contract. Essentially he exploited a loophole in the jutsu code that binds the animated to the animator, as if it were contract law.

    Remember, the Senju and Uchiha were briefly in an alliance, and likely shared secrets. Madara also knew how to perform Shadow Doppelgangers, and Hashirama knew the contents of the stone tablet.
     
  27. Sequester Lacking in Luster

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    I always thought those were just variations derived from the shadow clone.
     
  28. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    Naw. There is a basic clone technique.
    Everyone needs to know it to pass the academy in konoha.

    People make variations of that one made out of different substances like rock, clay, wood, chakra etc, but they all have different properties and weaknesses due to this, and are not the same jutsu.
     
  29. Sequester Lacking in Luster

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    But don't their clone jutsu's take their own chakra and can perform it's own jutsu's independently?
     
  30. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    Not always.
    Regular Bunshin have no solid form and can't use chakra.
    Mizu Bunshin are only 1/10th strength and only use what the caster uses .
    And so on and so forth

    Here's more info.

     
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