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The MORE CIVILIZED God Debate

Discussion in 'Philosophical Forum' started by Stealth Tomato, Aug 1, 2005.

  1. Stealth Tomato It has big taste.

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    Any reply under four sentences will get you kicked out.
    Any reply that goes off-topic to get four sentences will get you hit with a mug of beer and kicked out.
    This post does not count.
     
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  2. Jones ...and they served the beam.

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    so where do we start dude? lets start with the fact that nobody knows if god exists or not, and that religion was established to give people answers to why unexplainable thigns happen,

    My Opinion

    There is a God. god is neither or he or she, black or white, or Michael Jackson. Now for all the unexplained things that happen out there i believe that there is a plauible explanation. even though god created it i believe that there is an explanation to it. such as, "there is a universe" where skeptics have debated on this topic for many a year. i believe that god may have set things into motion, but really didnt help out much during the birth of the earth and complex organisms.

    how can people who strongly believe in god explain human evolution. i think it "was" up to evolution to decide who we were at what we looked like in some way or the other. i think god is much like a kid that gets those little brine shrimp things and dumps them into a fish tank. if u let them sit there long enough, (couple hundred billion years) i think something might start to change in the shrimp that god didnt have a hand in. they naturally evolved to better suit their surroundings. god may have put them in the first place but they went off on their own. much like the huamn race. god may have gave us the first chimpanzees but it was the monkeys ultimately who evolved and turned out the humans we are today.

    so, in conclusion, i believe in a mix of evolutionism and catholosism. that we may be here today, but not because of god, but becasue are own species evolution.
     
  3. NeophyteNihilist Not actually a Nihilist

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    I'm guessing this is "Does God exist," right? I'd have to say I believe he/she/it does simply because it's pointless and depressing not to. If there is no God then there is no after life or deeper meaning to life other than producing offspring. Believing God makes life seem less pointless and makes death much less frightening and intimidating. It's like not believing there is serial killer waiting for you in the shadows where you can't see. It just makes life more bearable. I'd much rather die believing there is at least something else after this life. Even if I'm wrong and there isn't anything out there I go out conciderably more happy.

    Basically I'm agnostic. I believe there is not enough evidence either way to ever know for certain. If there is a God he doesn't want us to know about him or else he'd alert us to his presense with an undisputable sign.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2005
  4. mow <b> <color=red> THE <blink>notlame</blink> AVENGER

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    I believe in the presence of God. I do believe that he is an all loving, caring powerful entity who has sent us countless prophets to guide is onto a righteuos path. This is not due to how I raised or how culture influnced me.

    Do I have proof of his existance?

    No. I only have my faith. Blind faith you say? It is. But in my heart, I know that to be true.

    There will always be a fundemintal diffrence in the issue of faith and religion (christian believe that Jesus Christ was the son of God, while we (muslims) believe he was a prophet just like Muhamed was). No one can prove this or that is wrong, and no one can prove to full certainity that God exists or not.

    Therefore; since it's simply up to the person's faith, all you can do is inform them and tell them what you believe in , and then simply leave it up to them to reach a conculsion in the topic.

    All that matters is this, simply live your life as best as you can, without causing harm to anyone. We all have a clear understanding of what is wrong and what is right, we should all follow it, regardless of the fact whether or God exists.
     
  5. explicitkarma 24601

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    Jeez, I missed all sorts of religious debatin' today. Anyway, my two cents probably wouldn't fit under the strict "intelligent" requirement to post here, but i'll try my best. I don't believe the existence of God, any other supreme being(s), or any afterlife philosophy is something that can be proved. The reason that God and Heaven are faiths and beliefs instead of science and facts is because we cannot possibly comprehend the whys and the hows of existance. All we are able to comprehend is the wheres and the whens. To say that there is definately one God with certain characteristics and motives is hardly based on anything factual. The only basis comes from one's personal religious belief. For all we know, our universe could be inside a macrocosmic dumpters of a much larger universe.


    This was probably said many times on that other thread, along with other threads on the forums. However, I don't feel like reading through the complete eleven pages of the other thread right now, being that i've been awake for over 24 hours. I'm sorry if it's repetitive. I just want to get my view on the thread.
     
  6. Yukimura k.fmgdf,m, impossible

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    I completely agree with you--believing in God gives you something to look forward to, something beyond the scope of reality. It gives our lives dimension and purpose. Non-believers may live their life to the fullest, but they can't bring their money/looks/possessions with them after death, and with death, they'll eventually be forgotten--then who will know they existed at all?

    You talk about an indisputable sign. The sign was Jesus--he was definitely real. This isn't deniable, as several documents of several different accounts prove this.



    BTW, making this thread more "civilized" has totally smothered it.

    This'll be my last post for the night, since I need to sleep and finish my online course stuff
     
  7. Nybarius Ennui Bores Me

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    I've been writing in threads like this--on the internet, and even on the murky realm of BBS's that came before it--for as long as I can remember. I'd like to think that I've experienced some growth during this time. Namely, when I was nine I thought that somebody might actually come away with a changed point of view. These days I am resigned to the intractable nature of such views; if anybody is going to yell "Eureka" in a burst of scientific/rational insight, or else cry "Hosanna" and ride an ass into town backwards under the sign of the cross, it is assuredly NOT going to be because of some text on a messageboard. At least, not primarily.

    A thread such as this, then, falls into that category of conversation which Gore Vidal anatomized in "Myra Breckenridge" as uniquely American: one side talks, then the other side talks, then both talk at once; nobody listens.

    The futility of this venture being noted--and it is a good & noble idea, seeing as how religion seems like a hot topic lately, but why dress babble up in the starched cloth of good social manners?--I'd like to go a bit off topic, if I may.

    This may require some concentration, so be warned from the outset. Without further adieu, I'd like to present the soundest & most novel argument for a form of creationism I've come across in ages. Hat-tip to my guru in the shadows, shiftedShapes-sama, for bringing it to my attention:

     
  8. Nazareth New Member

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    There really isint much of a debat going on here. Oh well. I believe in God. I am a strong christian, have been since I was little. Most people would argue that they dont believe in God because there is to much science proving that hes not there, which is all fine and dandy. People say that evolution disproves God, or the Big Bang disproves God, and countless stuff like that. Thats the reason most people dont beleive in him. I think that thats a stupid reason not to. Maybe God used the big bang to create the universe. Maybe he used evolution to create us all. Maybe all science is right. That still doesnt really disprove God. the best case against God would be we havent seen him. If hes there why hasnt he shown himself? Well he did through Jesus, but for some people thats not enough becuase they still dont believe the Jesus thing. Think about it like this; say like you have a collection of super smart ants or something like that. Now you want them to worship you because you love them and want to spend forever with them. You can do two things: You can never fully show yourself , showing wich ones really love you through faith, or you can show yourself making everyone worship you because at that point the ants cant deny your there anymore. What do you think you'd get more praise form? The ants that always trusted you even though they couldnt see you, or the ones that needed to proof of you to worship you? I think thats why God hasnt just stood out there in the open, or made us worship him. that was probably a crappy example of what I was trying to get across, but you get the idea.
     
  9. akuma no omoigakenai saku El Chupacabra

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    The reason I don't believe in God (agnostic, not atheist) isn't that science has proven that he doesn't exist (it hasn't), but because I have never seen or heard any good reason to believe that God does exist. I am simply incapable of believing in God without a reason to do so.

    Though I identify as agnostic, I tend to lean ever so slightly toward atheism. This is because I have found that, while no one has offered any proof either way, strong believers tend to offer many arguments that make me think there is a better explanation for the concept of god, than for the actual existence of god.

    This line of thought makes me think that the concept of god could just as easily be contributed to a fear of death than to any actual divine revelations.

    This, coupled with the argument that god must exist because there is so much that is impossible to explain about the complexity of the universe, and the fact that Thor and Zeus were similarly created out of a need to explain strange phenomena that we now understand, has lead me to believe that a fear of the unknown and a psychological need to find causes for experiences we do not fully comprehend are a more believable genesis for religion than those that the religions themselves espouse.

    Even if I wanted to believe in god (and I'd prefer not to), I would not be able to, because my mind will not allow my emotions to make that decision in it's stead.

    Even if there is a god of any kind, I strongly doubt that any religion is correct about it. I'll remain a somewhat-doubting agnostic until I see any evidence whatsoever to completely prove or disprove god.

    I'm glad that everyone is being civil in this thread, fearful as we all are of Vash's retribution. I do find that the term "Non-believer" carries with it an unintentional connotation similar to those of the terms "heathen" and "infidel" that can be a little irksome, but I can't think of a more neutral synonym that does not carry that connotation, so I guess it will have to do.
     
  10. Yavanna Hyuuga Clan

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    I believe in god. ive read the bible. i used to go to church regularly w/my family but now i rarely attend. but i still believe in god however i think there is way too much scientific evidance on evolution and all that. But then again there are questions science will NEVER be able to answer. the biggest such question is " how the universe began." Thats why i say a higher power HAD to have something to do with the spark of life that began it all.
     
  11. Nazareth New Member

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    I think the fact that we are alive is proof enough that there is a God. akuma no omoigakenai saku, I really like your argument, becuase its so true among a lot of people today. Why should you believe in God if there isint any reason? I think it makes life more meaningful to serve God. What purpose does your life have if you only live for yourself or earthly things? None of its going to matter in the end when you die. Most people think life is all about accumulation. Get all you can as fast as you can and be happy. But when you die all of that means nothing, zip, zilch, nothing at all. Life seems more purposful to serve God, becuase it will mean something in the end. When live with a higher purpose it makes life so much more meaningful. Thats one reason I think its good to worship God (that and were called to in the bible). It doesnt really sound like you dont have much of a reason not to, it sounds more like you just dont want to. I might be wrong, but if im not thats still fine if you just dont want to. Now im sure that was all more of a better explenation of a concept of God rather than proof of existance. The biggest proof of God we have is Jesus. I know thats the typical generic bone-head christian response, but think about it. Although its hard to prove the miracles he did to atheists/agnostics, you'll find that most scientists will agree in the end that Jesus really did raise from the dead. Also the fact that every single culture has some God figure is interesting, becuase if God isint real then its funny to me so many diferent cultures could come up with one. Our plaet is also a little funny. Its perfect in ever way for us. its size is perfect.

    The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.4 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

    The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

    was my source for that.

    As for religions and which one is correct, I think christianity is on track. Its set apart from every other religion which makes it very unique. A guy got nailed to a cross to die for us. What other religion has done that? Im not going to go into detail about it becuase it'll take to long. I would recomend reading the case for faith. Its a little boring, but I think youll like it.
     
  12. Nybarius Ennui Bores Me

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    Here's a distinction about science that I feel often gets lost in conversations like these. Science is little more than a set of instructions designed to test the veracity of hypotheses. It deals not in Absolute Truth, like ideology or religion, but rather in reducing degrees of uncertainty. As such, the analogy between science and religion is crooked, although they are often compared as if they were the same kind of thing. Religion attempts to offer anwers about man's place in the world; science offers viable answers about everything under the sun, except the mystery of the no-tailed ape who schemes and cries (except in the most mechanical sense). In fact, if science did venture into the realm of explaining life and its meaning--my bets on there not being one, but stick with me--it's likely that the result would be circular and meaningless; you know, "42" or something.

    By the way, as far as arguments about the improbability of man existing in a universe so finely tuned to give birth to life, one does well to remember that the odds of any event occurring are always 100% after it happens. If we're here thinking about the improbability of our existence, then our existence is 100% probable; for how else could we contemplate this improbability?

    I recently read an enthralling popular treatment on the universe's seeming unlikelihood called "Just Six Numbers". Short and sweet; check it out.
     
  13. skunkworks Member

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    I believe in god, but not really because I was taught to. I'll always remain skeptical, but logically it seems that the universe had to have a beginning, and thus a "birth". I let science dictate, in a sense, the workings of the tangible. But spiritually, I felt like I was yearning. It wasn't out of desperation, nor was it a submission, I was genuinely curious. Whether this "yearning" is biological, I can't tell you. I'm sure there are some biological aspects attributed to the belief in god. Bottom line, we can't really prove that god exists, and we can't prove that he doesn't. It is the religious fanatacism the belief in god sometimes breeds that disconcerts me.
     
  14. Nybarius Ennui Bores Me

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    Skunkworks: Well, Aristotle followed a similar line of reasoning until he came up with the "First Cause," an "unmoved mover" who sprang from void and willed all reality.

    Since the current Judaeo-Christian deity was cobbled together from the remnants of thousands of pagan myths, rituals, and traditions, it's not quite so sleek and logically sound. If you give the Bible--particularly the five books of my man, Moses--a close read, you can detect some shagginess where the beginning should be; hints at the birth of the Lord.

    I mean: if you follow back a chain of causality and find God at the beginning, then what came before God? Leviathan? A snow-cow? Gaia?

    Furthermore, it's a non sequitur to assume that since the universe had to have a beginning it also had to have a creator. It could be that it sprang from another universe, or perhaps its stuck in a recursive loop in time--an eternal golden braid, heh, heh, heh--with ends crossed, spiraling out to infinity. Or maybe we're all part of an elaborate "moral simulation" conducted by a fabulous post-human society. The point is, there are other possible accounts re: Genesis, and therefore your line of reasoning to support belief in some deity is hollow.

    It seems to me that you deeply yearn to make a leap of faith, but, being of an analytical bent, you fight your natural inclination. No need to make excuses on account of Science, which is forever in a state of suspended disbelief: make your leap of faith, be true to your dyed-in-the-wool preference for a logically ordered cosmology. If nothing else, you'll tear at yourself less.

    This neatly brings up one of the core fallacies of Religion(s), generally: they mostly assume that not only does man try to make sense of the Universe, but also that it actually makes some sort of sense; and furthermore some sort of sense which is pleasing to us. Personally, I'm of a temperament which inclines me toward suspecting that the Universe is cold and indifferent; it's out there to be understood, but it's certainly NOT aligned to play host to a race of egotistical monkey men with erect postures, opposable thumbs, and a rather nice brain to spinal column ratio.

    Without wasting so many words, what I want to say is this: even if God is out there, why would he care about us?
     
  15. skunkworks Member

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    Random question, are you someone who doesn't believe in the idea of morals? Not necessarily the ones societies came up with, but like an unwritten law regarding murder as unacceptable.

    I rarely take anything in the Torah literally. I see it more as a philosophy. While all of your arguements, eloquent as ever, are sound, you still can't prove that god doesn't exist. And I can't prove that god does. It's just an interpretation of the reality around me. The world is indifferent, you're absolutely right. Why not experiment, and experience a little intellectual and spiritual stimulation.
     
  16. uji-tiger Young Padawan

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    I do believe there is a God. If it's the god from the Bible or the Hindu gods, or even greek gods, I do not know. Though for me, personally, I do believe the Jewish/Christian/Muslim God is perhaps the most plausible. Why? Well, it somehow just feels right somehow. Eventhough having said this, this doesn't mean I'm one of those cross-wearing, going-to-church-every-Sunday, praying, preaching guys of faith. Although I do tend to think of myself as somewhat Christian (seeing, 'officially', if you could call it that, I'm Catholic), but I haven't found a direction or church that fits my look on the Bible...yet. Though I'm not really looking for one either.
    However I'm falling away from the main question, is there a God, if so, why? Well why wouldn't there be a God? I hate to quote George Lucas on this, but eh, Ask any 'disbeliever' why there wouldn't be a God, that why isn't there one. They can't really answer that. Often they come up with things like "the Bible isn't correct, it doesn't make sense" or the evolutiontheory. But, I too think, well, I know that things that are stated in the Bible aren't always true. After all, it may bring the message and will of God, it is still written down by man. And man is flawed and selffish, by nature. I too believe in the evolution theory, heck, I don't disargee with the Big Bang theory. Although, they still remain what they are... theories. But still I believe there is a God. There must be something not describable out there.
    You might say, "I don't see, feel, hear, or whatever, him; thus he can't be real". But can you feel, hear, taste or whatever there is in the air? Can you TASTE, can you FEEL oxygen?
    Belief is believing. Belief isn't fact. Neither is it fiction. To be, God is just there. He's everywhere, he desides fate. I mean, do you believe in destiny? Do you believe in winning a race? Do you believe that if I punch you in your nuts that it will hurt? This too is all belief.
    Now, my opinion to God, however, isn't all bright and cheerful. If I read the Bible, the OT, so, actually, if I were to read the Tora, I come across many things that God does, that is, in my eyes, bad. Although he's still the one who's done alot of good too.
    Religion however, has done even worse things. The Inquisition, wars, killing cultures, heck, even the recent terrorist attacks are somewhat based on religion. But then again, it too has done good things. It is in balance, sort of speak.
     
  17. Nybarius Ennui Bores Me

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    You're going to have to explain what you mean, because I don't quite understand. That however won't stop me from answering at length; hopefully my answer will satisfy.

    To address the base question: of course I believe in morals! I have first-hand experience with them, as I live my life according to principles that bear such a striking resemblance to the dictionary definition of "morality" that they must be one and the same. Though my morals aren't quite in alignment with those of majoritarian society, there they are nonetheless.

    Furthermore, I believe that other people exist and have consciousness (it's quite a leap of faith, really, to believe that everybody else isn't a robot automaton or a zombie simulation consciousness--especially on Mondays--after all, cogito ergo sum only applies on an individual level, barring psychic talents I don't possess. Moreover, I believe that other people, like me, put moral limiters on their free will. What else could have stopped that dusthead from pounding my face in when I dissed his momma--who it turns out had just died--in a freestyle battle? It sure as heck wasn't my winning smile.

    All this being said, I've found that most people relate to morals as a set of 'free-floating rationales'; like a set of rules on a board-game which dictate all the action of the game despite being unknown to the players. And then there's this problem: are ones morals, how one would act given these or those circumstances, set in stone, or are they fancifully cobbled together by memory? I think that most moral thinking, my own included, could easily be chalked up to post-hoc rationalization.

    Getting back to the main topic, yes, I believe in morals, ethics--heck, I even like to think I adhere to a code of honor. I sleep better at night knowing that I haven't fallen below a certain level of punctilio, although t'is probably just a state dependent thing mediated by chemicals in my brain -- IE, if I'm feeling down in the dumps, I'd likely convert minor failings easily glossed over during sunnier days into mortal sins. More interestingly, I think that I probably sleep better when I believe that there are some limits to what I'm capable of set up -- I'm bad with boundaries, and I often feel that all the walls of politeness & civility which confine, confound, and contain me during the working week are in constant danger of collapse.

    Beyond helping to regulate my internal state, I think that morals on their many levels (individual, social, global, &c) are still a needed ingredient if civilization is to work -- and since civilization bears sweet fruit like anime, I willfully give myself over to their yoke, although once again I'd like to see a sea-change in some commonly accepted mores.

    All this being the case, people who believe that their system of morality ultimately stems from He Whose Name is Holy have good cause to worry about me. While they have an omnipresent, omnipotent watchdog waiting for them to screw up the whole "free will" thing, I'm traipsing about on the 'honor system'. That is, if I were to kill somebody--for talkin' out both sides of his damn fool mouth, perhaps--and knew I could get away scott-free, the onus would fall squarely on me; only I could decide that I'd done something wrong; no voice from above or burning bush would come down and rescue me from the quandary.

    And, who knows, perhaps in that instance murder was for the greater good, and the victim & his or her loved ones ought to thank me. I'd like to be free to choose, and despite the uneasiness I feel in granting others that right, I can't very well hog it all for myself in anything resembling an open society.

    Here, I think, history is looping back on itself. This is a post-enlightenment era; no longer are people compelled to shackle themselves to the old ways; the absolute law, the decalogue. Once more, man is free to confront the terrifying possibilities of his freedom. Absent Yahweh's laws and their secular doppelganger, the categorical imperative, what will we DO, and . . . why?

    These questions are as pressing as ever, and I think that, given today's climate, they can finally be addressed with--big 10 commandments pun coming up--a clean slate. (as well as their secular cousin, the categorical imperative) In summation: nowadays, more and more often the slave gets to choose his master. While it's true that this way is dangerous, a return to the ways of the past is impossible; once opened, Pandora's jug can't be plugged.

    Finally: yes, of course I can't disprove the existence of God. Just like you can't disprove the existence of the Loch Ness monster, or anything, for that matter. Proving a negative is effectively impossible, because we live in a world of possibilities. So of course you're free to believe whatever you wish; to me, the interesting question is: why?

    ;)

    PS: TO directly answer what I now take to be your question -- I think that ethics and morals are useful, and should be judged according to their social usefulness. Murder is justified sometimes, however in those cases there's a neat little trick people play: just call it by some name other than "murder," and it all seems to work out. As far as the details go, I'm hopelessly wishy-washy; I can't decide whether the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or if that would end up as the rule of local majorities a la the American South before the Civil War, where a majority of whites oppressed an African-Americans minority -- surely, this was for the good of the many, right? And then there's the Nietzschean argument that great birds of prey should be able to keep what they kill . . . oh, it boggles me so. Going to stop now. (Sigh). I'm about to blow a gasket; damn you, Vash! This thread has got me thinking.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2005
  18. Sayo The Hedgehog

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    IMO god does and doesn't excists, he doesn't because this world was created with the whole star system molucul thingie. (sp????)
    the theory about god creating the universe and putting the 2 first people here on eart is nonsense to my ears.

    but why does god excists then?
    well as an icon for hope god/s got created out of hope for mostly resembling things that men couldn't explain, for example certain wheather effects.

    it's just a shame some people hide behind the real reasons and use this as an excuse for war and other tragious things.
     
  19. Nybarius Ennui Bores Me

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    In the book "The Mind of God," this type of deity is termed the "God of the Gaps" (probably an old name, but that's where I saw it first). He is a slippery shadow-God, who exists within the cracks of human understanding; he flees the light of understanding like a cockroach when the lights flick on. When cloud-formation was explained, he hid out in the cosmos; now that we are plumbing the endless ebon depths of the night sky, he's holed up in the center of a blackhole. Should mankind's mindscape ever manage to penetrate the singularity of this bunker, this cowardly gap-God will undoubtedly vacate and find some other obfuscated area not yet encompassed by scientific understanding.

    Perhaps you'll catch a glimpse of him skittering toward some new mystery on that day--each one seems smaller than those before it, like a flipbook of Russian folding dolls--after the light of understanding has illumined his previous hidey-hole. An ineffectual deity, to be sure.
     
  20. OtacontheOtaku ~Sex Guru~

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    Well, the question isn't very specific, but I'm guessing you're asking, "Does the Hebrew God of the Old Testament exist?" or "Does the father of Joshua (the accurate translation of "Jesus") of Nazareth exist?" or "Does a God exist, not necessarily that of those main religions, but others".

    I'm gonna answer that by saying this, the Gods of all the World's main religions don't exist, or rather, don't exist in the capacity they are believed to. Yahweh (the God of the Old Testament) was the Hittite God Adad and the source of many religious Gods including the Zeus of the Greeks. Buddha, Krishnu, and Jesus all come from ancient Egyptian myths stemming from the sun God Amon-Ra (Jesus in particular came from the story of Horus, their lives are almost identical right down to the smallest details). Whether or not Adad is actually alive (long explanation) is subject to interpretation.

    Now, is there a God? Simply put, yes. Is it something we can talk to? No. Is it something we can feel? Yes. There HAS to be a God or more accurately a "God-force" at work within the universe. We all possess a special type of energy inside us, this energy was discovered by Einstein and his collegues when studying the effects of magnets on the human body. This energy was so foreign that they could only describe it as a "soul". So yes, humans have an energy that allows them to function on a plane not of this Earth, and that same energy runs throughout our world and the rest of the universe. When humans die, this "soul" flows from the anchor in the human body, and back into this force. Whether or not we maintain consciousness after death is something I'm not sure, but it's definitely a possibility.

    All in all, there is a "God-force" within the universe, it just doesn't answer prayers or cause miracles or anything like that (though certain ways have been known to, this stems from some pretty complex quantum theory though, so I won't get into it).


    Sources:
    - Research of Albert Einstein
    - Research of R.A. Boulay
    - Various sources on the origin of Jesus including:

    Hinata
    Hinata
     
  21. Nazareth New Member

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    I agree with you, is does sucl that people use God as a means of war. look at the president. hes says God is telling him to do that war. As I said earlier science cnat really disprove God. Maybe we did evolve from monkeys, and maybe the universe was created from the big bang or whatever your thinking of. Maybe Genesis is some sort of parable, that doesnt mean theres no God. Maybe God used those tehcniques to create us to what we are now. People do use God as an icon of hope and what not, because its a good thing to place hope in. A higher power that loves you and wants to spend forever with you.

    Skunkworks, you said like you were yearning for God or something like that. There was actually an interesting article in Time magazine about whether we have a 'God' gene which makes us want to believe in God or a higher power of some sort.
     
  22. explicitkarma 24601

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    That is your belief, and I respect it as it is. However, I don't believe that a life without serving God is a wasted life, nor would life mean nothing in the end. For example, I am a musician. I do not really live for material goods. Often times, musicians cannot affoard a lot of material goods. However, like other artists, inventors, designers, my creations are the extension of myself that will still exist after I die. That alone gives me comfort at death and also gives my life meaning after death.
     
  23. Nybarius Ennui Bores Me

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    Hm. OtacontheOtaku, I really appreciate seeing such a polished post as the one you made earlier in this thread--I mean, a Narutofan post with footnotes; I barely managed to scrawl my John Hancock in crayon on some of my college term papers!--however, I'm afraid I think the "divine magnetism" you subscribe to is utter hogwash. I didn't follow the links, nor did I go in depth, but from your brief description it's already fishy enough to merit an express trip to the trashcan of any patent office, due to its contradiction of some very well established laws of physics and such. Also, the appeal to authority--wow, EINSTEIN discovered God? Well if anybody can talk to the old bean after our man Moses, it's got to be that gentle genius!!--renders it all the fishier. I'm typing on borrowed time now--just can't pull myself away, yaknow--but let me ask you, would you like to examine the claims of this divine force you are putting forward together? Might be fun to go over, and also I'd be fulfilling a membership requirements.
     
  24. ANBU87 Member

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    I believe in God. I have since i can remember. and for those who need proof. try praying, and having lots of faith(but don't pray for something selfish like a million dollars or something). It's one of the ways that proved to me, the existance of God. Oh, and that God created the world in 6 days(minus the 7th days cause he rested) thing and evolution, some ppl might say, "evolution says it took millions of years to create life on the planet." who said that God's 6 days are the same as our 6 days? fior him, one day could be like a 5.453 million years or something.
     
  25. therealultimatepower Member

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    Maybe we should tell all the starving people in Africa to pray? Maybe we should tell all the people getting shot up daily to pray? Or maybe praying could have stopped 9/11 or the tsunami? You must be kidding or living in a fantasy world to think praying does anything useful.

    Didn't the Bible specifically say 6 days? It didn't say 5.453 million years. And it didn't have a conversion table in it or anything. THerefore, the Bible says God created everything in 6 days. THerefore the Bible is WRONG.
     
  26. abfluvver stray dog

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    The Bible also says that God does not reckon time as human do.

    --ABF,
    An agnostic who loves people on both sides of the debate equally.
    Free love for all! <3333
     
  27. therealultimatepower Member

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    It still says 6 days. If God has such great foresight, why not avoid the confusion and say he created it in 6 "God days" then?
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2005
  28. explicitkarma 24601

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    Exactly!

    Now this occurs in the first day of the creation as stated in the Bible. However, it notes that the earth was without form, a void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. However, if there was no light or form, how was the length of a day determined? Without a sun to produce light and without the earth having form to revolve around the sun, it could very well be possible for a "God day", in particular the first day, to last millions of years.
     
  29. skunkworks Member

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    Maybe god created the world to seem as if it has been existing for 5 million years. :p
     
  30. Nemesis The Sith Lord Moderator

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    haha still 5 million years is a short time for earths life since like life on the planet itself has been around for near enough 3-4 billion years and the earth another billion years before that.
     
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