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The One-Eyed Commander vs Ulquiorra and Harribel

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by Night Light, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Night Light

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    Round 1:

    Restrictions: Harribel can't use Resurrection, Ulqy, can't use ressurection 2, Shunsui can't use bankai

    Round 2:

    Restrictions: None
     
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  2. MShadows Moderator

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    So basically in Scenario 1 you have Shikai Shunsui vs Base Harribel and Resurrection Ulquiorra?

    Although he considered going Bankai against Resurrection Starrk, Shunsui's Shikai allowed him to hold his ground long enough to beat him through hax, tho it wasn't that easy. Now released Starrk is obviously a lot stronger than Base Harribel and released Ulquiorra, so I don't see the team winning here.

    For Scenario 2, I believe Shunsui will have to go Bankai for R2 Ulquiorra since I personally believe he is stronger than Starrk and he's got the support of Harribel too who can become an annoyance.
     
  3. Adamant soul

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    Shunsui stomps both of them easily

    It took a released Stark just to overwhelm Shikai Shunsui and even that was only because Shunsui's zanpaktou was being a bitch and holding back on him. Full Power Shikai Shunsui was a match for Full Power Released Stark.

    Shunsui takes both rounds with ease.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  4. Night Light

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    @Adamant soul I'm honestly surprised you think he wins that easily. In this match, his shikai acts the same as it always does. Shunsui may be good deal above them, but not to the point where he can easily beat both. Remember when Harribel fought shikai Hitsugaya, Masked Lisa and Masked Hiyori.

    Even though Harribel is massively stronger than shikai Hitsugaya, Masked Lisa and Masked Hiyori in close combat, all 3 of them were able to stalemate here when fighting together.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
  5. Adamant soul

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    Um that was because she ISN'T massively stronger than Masked Hiyori or Masked Lisa (who were doing the majority of the work in that encounter). It was Bankai Hitsugaya who we'd already seen wasn't far off Harribel power wise when he managed to survive against her alone, not to mention her being unable to break out of his Hundred Flowers technique on her own.

    Those 3 managed that because they ARE close to Harribel in power, else they would have been easily slaughtered.
    • Look at Harribel's 3 fraccion vs Yamamoto
    • Allon vs the Lieutenants
    • Full power Stark vs Love and Rose
    • Aizen vs the Captains
    All good examples of what happens when a single, powerful fighter takes on multiple opponents who are much weaker than them. R1 Ulquiorra and Released Harribel aren't going to do shit against someone who was able to match Full Power Released Stark and survive against a furious Shikai Yamamoto (albeit he had help for that).
     
  6. Night Light

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    Harribel is massively stronger than them, in close combat. If not, they wouldn't need all 3 of them to fight her. The difference may not have been as massive as say Fraccions vs Yamamoto or Aizen vs the captains, but the gape was still big.
     
  7. Adamant soul

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    She was stronger yes, but she wasn't MASSIVELY stronger like you're suggesting or it wouldn't matter if there three or ten of them. They would still be casually slaughtered if the difference was as big as you think it was.

    We clearly see they can block Harribel's strikes and keep up with her, meaning they are weaker but still fairly close to her power level.
     
  8. Night Light

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    Well, Hitsugaya was running from Harribel, after the Resurrection, so at the very least, he doesn't hold a candle to her in close combat. As matter of fact, she was handling bankai Hitsugaya, while she was in base and even seem to have the advantage, as far a CQC is concerned.
     
  9. Adamant soul

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    Yes but the fact that Bankai Hitsugaya was able to survive against her released form for any length of time on his own (AND had the raw power to match her water attacks and throw them back) is pretty telling of the fact that the difference between them wasn't that large.

    Never mind the fact Hitsugaya had to let her weaken him so he could use his Hundred Flowers technique without killing his own allies and Harribel could do NOTHING about a weakened version of his strongest tech. She couldn't avoid it, she couldn't power out of it, she needed Wonderweiss to save her from it.

    I'm not disputing Harribel being stronger than Hitsugaya and the Lieutenant Vaizards, what I'm saying is that the gap between them and Harribel doesn't begin to compare to the gap between Ulquiorra, Harribel and Shunsui. That's why I say Shunsui wins easily.
     
  10. Night Light

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    The difference between Harribel and Hitsugaya wasn't large when it came to reiastu. As far as speed is concerned, she eclipsed him. It's not like having a larger reiastu would necessarily make you much stronger than the opponent, if they're faster than you.

    If Shunsui is so much faster that he could take on both them easily, that's a different story, but I see no reason to see him as that much faster.
     
  11. Adamant soul

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    Her speed didn't ECLIPSE his, Hitsugaya was still able to react and even keep up with her movements throughout the fight. She was faster, yes but not to the extent that she was blitzing him or anything.

    Higher Reiatsu (generally speaking) = Higher stats outside of individuals who specialise in certain stats (like Soi Fon's speed or Nnoitra's durability).

    So yes Hitsugaya and Harribel being fairly close in terms of reiatsu would mean their physical stats aren't that far apart, which we clearly see is true during their fight. Hitsugaya is below her in all categories, but not by much in any of them.
    He's not going to be blitzing them, no but he is still considerably stronger and faster than they are. So much so that, even 2 v 1, they aren't going to be able to achieve much. They MIGHT (emphasis on MIGHT) make him use Bankai in scenario 2 but that would be all she wrote for the both of them.
     
  12. shunsui1

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    Shunsui wins fairly easily scenario one if KK works like against Lille. He can beat nearly anybody with that level of cooperation. He gets pushed to Bankai but it's an easy stomp after that in scenario 2
     
  13. Daio

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    Scenario 1: Shunsui should take it with ease. Sealed Harribel would be a non-factor and Resurreccion Ulquiorra is a discount Resurreccion Starrk, essentially.

    Scenario 2: This is more interesting. Shunsui shouldn't have too much issues with Harribel, however, she's not weak enough to be a complete non-factor. Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra should actually have superior stats to Shikai Shunsui and Lanza would be lethal. Shunsui would be forced into Bankai but from there, it's an auto-victory.
     
  14. Night Light

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    Too be honest, I don't even think Starrk is without a doubt, stronger than Ulquiorra. If reiastu generally determines stats, than Uquiorra should be much higher than Starrk based on his energy output. Lanza Del Relampago caused an absolutely massive explosion of energy, if we compare that to the size of Cero Metralleta, Lanza is much bigger. Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras was also capable of equaling Monster Ichigo's cero.

    Ulquiorra's reiastu was even noted to be so heavy that it felt like an ocean.
     
  15. Adamant soul

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    Larger area of effect doesn't necessarily mean its stronger. Soi Fon's Bankai is a fucking nuclear missile but Shunsui and Yamamoto did more damage to stronger opponents (Stark and Wonderweiss) with just slashes and fists than Soi Fon's bankai did to Barragan. :maybe

    Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra
    • Owned a Masked Ichigo that he was already beating in his previous form.
    • One very powerful attack (Lanza) that he fully admits he can't control, so much so that he missed even a stationary target. How's he going to hit anyone who is actually going to move if he can't hit someone who was standing still?
    • Dies to a basic Cero from H2 Ichigo who also doesn't have much to work with aside from that fight.
    Los Lobos Stark
    • Matched Shikai Ukitake and Shikai Shunsui while holding back, same two guys who could take on a furious Shikai Yamamoto and survive. Same Yamamoto who killed Released Wonderweiss bare handed.
    • Was powerful enough that Shunsui seriously considered using Bankai and would have done so if Ukitake hadn't reminded him that they had allies nearby.
    • Though it turned out to be mostly an act, he was able to damage Shunsui with a single Cero (he was clearly bruised).
    • Tanked an onslaught from two Masked Captain Vaizards, got up and proceeded to almost kill them with his wolves.
    • Matched Full Power Shikai Shunsui blow for blow until Shunsui got the better of him.
    Stark simply has more concrete feats going for him than Ulquiorra does. I fully admit Lanza would probably fuck Stark up but the odds of Ulquiorra landing it are practically nill. Meanwhile Stark could use his wolves to kill Ulquiorra.

    Being generous, R2 probably takes Ulquiorra up to a similar level of power to Barragan but he would still lose because he has no answer to Respira. Anything more than that would require more evidence than we were ever given.
     
  16. Night Light

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    Barragan had Respira to mitigate the damage of the explosion and IIRC the size of the explosion wasn't that big. Besides Soi Fong would have killed Barragan, if he wasn't a skeleton. She broke his skull.

    There is this:

    Aizen said that Ichigo once momentarily became a transcendent being. The only time that fits that description is when Ichigo fought Ulquiorra.
     
  17. Adamant soul

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    Respira didn't have time to do shit about the missile that actually hit him, he survived it because he was that durable, simple as that.
    Dude, he's clearly referring to the Dangai Ichigo that was beating his ass before he transformed into Monster form.
     
  18. Zexion~

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    Shunsui wins both in shikai. Espada will never force him to go Bankai.
     
  19. Night Light

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    He also survived, because he was a skeleton, if he was a shinigami, he would be dead.

    He couldn't be talking about Dangai Ichigo, because right he after talks about Ichigo brief time as a transcendent being, he says, "you've lost all of that power now, your not worthy of understanding anymore." He was talking to Dangai Ichigo when he said you've lost that power to be transcendent.
     
  20. shunsui1

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    Nah he was talking about Dangai Ichigo. The minute he thought Ichigo cast aside his power and only put it into physical strength he was disappointed. Thinking that his possible equal in strength was no longer there. And then he got beat handily.


    I have a question for you. How would he know about Hollow Ichigo when he had literally no way of seeing or hearing about those events?
     
  21. Night Light

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    He said this specifically to Dangai Ichigo "You certainly did shatter and transcend the boundary's between soul reaper and hollow for a moment...but having lost all your power, you're only a shell of your former self." So the transcendent Ichigo, Aizen was talking about couldn't be Danga Ichigo.

    Idk how Aizen, maybe he employed Syazel's aid, put cameras in himself or used lol-science.
     
  22. shunsui1

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    Yeah because he couldn't sense Dangai Ichigos power. But thought he put it all into physical power.

    There's literally no time for him to have found out about Hollow Ichigo he only had time after the war since it was non stop action that entire time.
     
  23. egressmadara

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    Base Hallibel and R1 Ulquiorra isn't handling someone who beat Starrk and matched the leader of the Schutzstaffel until his intangibility became permanent.

    And he stomps in Bankai.
     
  24. DSTREET45

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    Shunsui both rounds.
     
  25. Bookworm

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    I would say Harribel has better speed feats than Starrk, matching 3 captain level opponents with sheer speed.
     
  26. Divell

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    Match is really strong considering everytime Stark is dividing his soul he weakens himself.
     
  27. Divell

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    Shunsui wins round 1 high difficulty.

    Probably loses Round 2 before being able to pull Bankai. Segunda Etapa should dwarf him in power by a good amount.
     
  28. Divell

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    To be fair. Barragan can age energy as well.
     
  29. Adamant soul

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    Okay where in the hell is this shit stated, 'cause there's ZERO indication in the actual manga that using his wolves weakened Stark in any way?
    • Neither Shunsui nor anyone else present points out that he's gotten weaker
    • Stark himself gives no indication, he doesn't even think "Shit using the wolves weakened me" or anything like that
    • Shunsui is doing better is because his zanpaktou stopped holding back, that's the only actual reason given in the manga
    If this is some novel thing, I call bullshit for all the above reasons.
     
  30. Sablés

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    They literally strip him of his guns.
     
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