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The Problem With Comparisons

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Despiser, Oct 27, 2006.

  1. Despiser

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    I've just been reading a lot of comparisons on the forum, and the lack of nuance/logic baffles me. This is everything from the Itachi/Orochimaru/Jiraiya threads, to the recent Zabuza thread, et. all. Some people say it's rock paper scissors, others look at wins and losses, etc. etc. All of them use rather funky logic.

    Here's my own example of where this leads.


    Naruto beat Haku: Fact.
    Zabuza said Haku was stronger than him: Fact.
    Zabuza was able to beat Kakashi in a battle: Fact.
    Kakashi beat Naruto (Thousand Years of Pain): Fact

    Therefore, if Naruto can beat Haku, and Haku was stronger than Zabuza, who could beat Kakashi, who beat Naruto, we come up with the logic that Naruto?Kakashi, AND, that Naruto>Naruto?!

    This sort of logic, obviously, is skewed; yet whenever people say things like, 'Blah blah blah, that doesn't matter. He lost, and that's all there is to it,' they are subscribing to this sort of logic.

    So please, people, when discussing these sorts of things, please pay attention to nuance and detail. It really does matter :)
     
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  2. Dr.Douchebag

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    zabuza beat kakashi?when?

    but i get what you mean and agree its really hard to compare unless its completely diff powerlevels like comparing a sannin to a jounin or elite jounin
     
  3. Futagokage

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    I also agree that there are problems with comparisons, but this is as well motived by the Fandom, because you always (yes ALWAYS) tend to see the character you like as stronger than the one you like less.

    in the statement Naruto>Naruto, you are forgetting that the Naruto that beat Haku was the Chakra trained Naruto, which is obviously stronger than the Naruto who loses against Kakashi.

    Also, Zabuza defeat on Kakashi was only in profesional way, with Kakashi trapped (in a world without Naruto & co) Zabuza may have killed Tazuna, so Victory to Zabuza, but Zabuza just trap Kakashi, do not beat him.
     
  4. Khamzul

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    I like the Tousen (for those familiar with bleach) example better:

    Tousen Shikai>Grimmjaw>Ichigo Shikai>Kenpachi>Tousen Bankai

    Tousen Shikai>Tousen Bankai?​
     
  5. zagman505

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    lol, it wasn't even his shikai, was it? unless he's in permanent shikai-mode. so... it'd be more of Tousen unreleased > Tousen bankai?
     
  6. Khamzul

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    No, he used the Shikai ability (the same as he used against Ishida, loud tone or something simular) first if my memory is correct.
     
  7. rorykage

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    i didn;t read wuite everyting, but i agree with the thought of this thread. too many comparisons are handled wrong (for the most part i don't think they should happen) and are totally biased. it comes down to "this guy will win because he is my fave!"

    i think, when it comes down to it, anyone can beat anyone. there is no one character who would own the whole world. eventually orochimaru is gonna be killed, itachi's gonna go blind, AL will be betrayed by his subordinates, any number of things can happen to change things in an unexpected way.

    obviously there are the odd cases where a certain character will never be able to defeat another, but that's only in cases where it would be contradictory to the story. some people call this "plot-no-jutsu" (i fucking hate whoever came up with that term. fucking hate!), i call it logic. the good guys don't lose. they may lose soldiers (RIP Asuma), they may lose battles (sasuke was pretty tough when he met team 7 again), but they don't lose wars.

    No single character is ultimate (even naruto is vulnerable), in the world of Naruto, anything can happen to change the pace of a fight.
     
  8. PDQ

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    I think other people in the thread have missed the point. So basically you're saying that fights are more than a single bit of info(win/lose). How they win, and to what degree they win makes a huge difference. This is true. A victory in a fight, heck, the fight itself is composed of hundreds maybe millions of variables. It has nothing to do with paper rock scissors(and even less with this whole '>' '<' '=' phenomenon where people think those operands mean anything with respect to multiple variables that are not all on one side) What happens in a fight is far more important than the end result.
     
  9. Despiser

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  10. The_Unforgiven

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    Agreed here
     
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