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The Sannin are no longer equal...

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Shoten, Nov 19, 2005.

  1. Shoten Kage among kage

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    They may have been equal 20 years ago but now its a diffrent story...and heres the proof.

    1. Tsunade stopped training for 20 yrs(this is also the proof that sakura will definately surpass her)

    2. Jiraiya has been busy gather data for his books.

    3. Orochimaru stays young and has continually been developing new jutsu's.

    in conclusion they are the strongest in this order Oro, Jiraiya, and then Tsunade. They were at one point equal in strength and power though.

    this excludes the summons.
     
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  2. Chi Technical knockout

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    Oh... That was said 1000 times already.. Don't bother. Tsunade-tards and Jiraya-tards won't listen to any logic...

    Here.. Let me quote myself from another similar thread.

    Situation with Jiraya of course isn't so bad. But Orochimaru is still strongest. Remember. Hard Work + Genius beats everything..
     
  3. Blue Well-Known Member Supporting Staff Retired Staff

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    (sigh) Whatever.

    Let me say something about strength, however. If it's not proven in actual combat, it's not a fact. If nobody even says as much, it's pure supposition.

    So Facts:
    Orochimaru > Kakashi
    Jiraiya > Itachi and Kisame (Some people say this isn't a fact; it is, I'm sorry. It wouldn't be so much of a fact if the experimental data didn't pretty much match with Itachi's own hypothesis)
    Itachi > Kakashi (pre-skip)

    All of those are proven true. They are facts. Okay?

    (good) Supposition:
    Sasori > Deidara
    Itachi > Orochimaru
    Sandaime Prime > Everyone

    None of these are proven, but they're worth discussing, because characters generally know what they're talking about.

    Pure bullshit:
    Anything else.

    Not ONCE was the strength of the Sannin proven, and NOT ONCE were they compared to each other. So you're pretty much making up this whole thread.
    You're welcome to your opinion; I believe they're equal, with Tsunade having the avantage due to the will of fire. But don't run around saying this like you have something to back it up with.
     
  4. Negative-Ion Life is BRUTAL!!

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    If i had to speculate and say who is stronger now, from the sannins. I would say Tsunade!

    Why? Tsunade has access to secret scrolls and forbidden jutsus, as a Hokage she has the right to use those scrolls so she can use the jutsus in them when Konoha is in danger.

    If Sandaime was worrying about Naruto getting his hand in 1 of those scrolls and unleashing hell when he was only 12, then imagine what tsunade can do now.
     
  5. Aman <font color='#0000A0'>Really?</font>

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    Well, Jiraiya isn't rusty to me and Tsunade isn't rusty anymore either because she started training after she became the Hokage so... What's the point of this thread. :oh
     
  6. Chiru Naruto Forums Elitist

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    OOOH! Kiri o Kunoichi just shut you down. :spaz
     
  7. ChickenPotPie HAH.

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    Tsunade lacks Kyuubi though.
     
  8. SeruraRenge Reaching infinite

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    Umm...Jiraiya wasn't out solely for "gathering information". He said himself that peeping was a side thing, and that he had actually been tracking Orochimaru for the last 10 years.
     
  9. Negative-Ion Life is BRUTAL!!

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    She doesnt lack the power the scrolls can give her tho.
     
  10. Gunners .

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    I think at the moment they are all on par with each other, simple as that when orochimaru travels body i think it would take time to get used to the body, then there is the fact of chakra if the body has no expirience his chakra would decrease.
     
  11. Chi Technical knockout

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    Okay.. nobody saying that this is a fact.
    Fact is that Sannins WERE equal in great ninja war. And facts ARE that everyone of them did in those 20 years what they did. And it's logical to put 2 and 2 together.
    We don't have fact that Konohamaru is weaker than Naruto. But we can come to it, by using logic.

    There wasn't stated anywhere that Sannins ARE equal NOW. But "They are not equal" supporters have some FACTS that points more on their theory. When others can't prove anything and have no evidences to back up their believes.

    It's forum.. Peoples are supposed to share and think.. And i'm here to prove thta my ideas is better then yours. Vote for me :p

    Ok.. Really i pretty much shure that they are even in manga NOW. But i telling that it's kinda illogical. Kishomoto could put more thoughts into it.
    And Tsunade probably trained this 2.5 years, but i still think it's not enough to catch up to other Sannins.
    I don't speaking of course about some suicidal jutsus. You know... With "Shiki Fuujin" anyone = anyone (roughly). I'm speaking about actual combat, where your main mission is to survive and kill your opponent...

    Best regards..
     
  12. Pheonix_222 Ero-Sennin

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    ya true
    but i dont see any point to this topic
     
  13. Artuir RIP Jiraya :(

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    99% of all topics on this entire forum don't have a damn point, because everyone's busy parroting the same retarded crap over and over and over and over and over and over

    admins will delete this though, because they are pro-tard.
     
  14. Criminal NF TRIPLE OG

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    I doubt any of the Sannin have "stopped" training or growing. The art of the ninja is their life. They all worked very hard to earn the title Legendary, and Im sure they are not just sitting on their asses getting "rusty". Case in point:

    Tsunade is the Hokage now, and at any moment she may be called upon to defend the village she presides(sp?) over. She's not out there punching and kicking logs everyday but she is no dummy. Im sure Tsunade knows she needs to be ready to fight if the time comes. Not to mention she still practices medicine and medicinal jutsu with she uses in battle, that alone shows she not rusty.

    Jiraiya is responsible for protecting the 4ths legacay, and he has been researching not only Akatsuki but hunting Orochimaru, he obviously knows the dangers of all those people. Because of this Im sure he has been keeping up his health and training knowing he is one of the few things that stands between the desctruction of Konoha and the lost of the Kyuubi and/or Naruto.

    Orochimaru....well your right about him. He is always growing and getting stonger because he gains jutsu every two years and Im sure his hunger for power never decreases.

    Point is, I think the sudden turn of events in part 1 have caused all three sannin to remain around the same level of strength compared to each other as before. No one has gotten more powerful or stronger than the rest because they all have a reason to keep training and getting stronger.
     
  15. Thot Lazy

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    Are you sure they were equal in the great wars? I thought they were a team who complimented each-others weaknesses. Like the fact that Tsunade probably saved the other two's life several times. Not because she was Stronger than them but because she was a Medic-nin who obviously knew how to create an antidote to a new poison in a few hours (Y'know, like Sakura can do now?). But I think that as a pure ninja (in fighting-skills) I think Orochimaru was always superior to the other two, but he lacked the convition that drove the other's. Y'know, the 'protect a friend'-thing that makes a ninja so much stronger? That thing that the third said orochimaru never understood? So I'd say in a real fight Orochimaru would always have gotten his ass kicked by the other sannins if they had someone to protect.
    As to wich one of Jiraiya and Tsunade that's the strongest/best. We'll never know since they'll never fight eachother. Tsunade's smarter and Jiraiya is wiser...
     
  16. heaven wu li master

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    ok, here is a simple rebuttle, in the orochi vs tsundade fight, remember how he was suprised with tsunades new regenerationi jutsu... he realizes that she has continued to develop new jutsus which means more training over the 20 years
     
  17. Shoten Kage among kage

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    is there a diffrence between smarter and wiser?:blink

    uhh genesis rebirth is not an actual jutsu...its just chakra stored overtime used for healing and revitalizing..
     
  18. shintebukuro Well-Known Member

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    The Sannin were never equal in ability, Orochimaru has always been stronger than Jiraiya - this has been made extremely clear. Their difference in ability is not a rock-paper-scissors deal either, one is simply more talented than the other, which is an obvious parallel to the Naruto/Sasuke and Obito/Kakashi relationships. Tsunade was never important enough to be in the equation, directly paralleling how Sakura is not as important as Naruto/Sasuke.

    The sannin are all legendary because they were a 3-man team of genius ninjas, taught by Sandaime, who were able to reach kage-level, and helped in a great war. There is never anything to indicate that they are all equal, and much to suggest they aren't and never were.
     
  19. slumpy doesn't need a Custom title

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    when was stated that orichimaru was always stronger than jiryari?
    Only because oro was the talented one when they where genins.
    We don't have any othere evidence. The sannin fight, the al had there handycaps.
     
  20. kapsi Banned

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    Logic be damned, my sannin are equal!
     
  21. Geese Yep

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    Itachi> Orochimaru has ALOT more credibility than Jiraiya> Itachi and Kisame. It was stated explicitly and in fact just as Itachi made his official debut (and it has nothing to do with him having the Mangekyou Sharingan, as that would mean Orochimaru, for all intents and purposes, has reason to fear Post-timeskip Kakashi :blink). The Itachi/Kisame thing is pretty convoluted as both Kisame and Itachi were ready to fight Jiraiya up until the Frog jutsu (Jiraiya told the two that they have no chance of capturing Naruto with him present to which Itachi replied "and why not?" and the following chapter Kisame said "but you could take him, Itachi...") and cited the reason for their fleeing as Itachi lacking the chakra to continue fighting...only to say fighting him would be suicide or something to that effect a couple chapters later. So, I'd say the Itachi/Jiraiya/Kisame thing is undetermined on both sides.


    As for the topic at hand, Orochimaru should definately be in better shape than Tsunade and Jiraiya. He learned Edo Tensei among other new jutsus and attained a young, fresh body while Jiraiya was writing porn and Tsunade was hard drinking and gambling. God I need some sleep...
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2005
  22. Odlam Team 7 4 Life

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    Why bother to go into this again?

    They all obviously kick ass, as they have all been candidates for the Hokage title of Konoha at one point in thier life or another.

    Id say Orochimaru is stronger at this point simply because he has a body in its physical prime, so if you were to write it out statistically, I think he would measure higher. But Tsunade and Jairaya are good guys with the "will of fire" and are willing to push themselves farther then Orochimaru is to win the fight. They'd sacrifice themselves to bring him down, Oro would not go that far to finish them, hed be looking for a way to escape the fight alive. So in the grand scheme of things, theyd probably still kill each other in a fight to the death.
     
  23. Negative-Ion Life is BRUTAL!!

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    Actually Kisame and Itachi said that they cant fight Jiraiya even if they were more in numbers. This was said before they go in the fight, they waited for Naruto to be alone so they can get him, also they tryed to trick Jiraiya with that girl. Then shows Jiraiya making whatever comment he made.
     
  24. ChildGamez The agony of RawR camping!

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    Oh well... I see your point but I'm not sure Oro has only been making new jutsus and training. He has builded new Hidden Village and well.. searched for new (boy) meat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2005
  25. shintebukuro Well-Known Member

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    If you want a statement: during the Sannin fight, Orochimaru says to Jiraiya something like "So this difference still exists between us," after having defeated his underworld spine jutsu but sparing his life.

    But the statement doesn't matter, Kishimoto has painted the picture very clearly.
     
  26. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh

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    Yes, and that picture is: The Sannin are all equal! Perhaps there isn't any actual "evidence" or "logic" to support it, but dammit, it's still true because we all (excepting you stupid Orochi- and Itachi-tards) want it to be true!!

    Oh, I forgot, there was Ebisu saying "Only a Sannin can fight a Sannin" or something which is definite proof that they're all equal, just like Sasuke saying, "Only I can kill him" proves that Itachi is totally invincible to everyone else.
     
  27. vagnard Well-Known Member

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    The only fact here is Itachi > Oro. Oro himself said: "He is even stronger than myself". As simple as that. The context support this: Oro was a former member of the Akatsuki, he studied the sharingan, he knows Itachi very well. We haven't a reason to doubt his word. There isn't a major fact in the manga or fiction than an egocentric villian like Oro stating that another character is stronger than him (specially if the other character is a new villian...like when the Robotech Masters said that Invid were more powerful than them in the Second Generation in Robotech)

    Itachi's comment means nothing. He never knew Jiraiya in person before. Its only based in reputation and you have to consider the fact that he was tired after using Tsukiyomi once. Then when he meet Jiraiya, he wasn't impressed...he even used Tsukiyomi on Sasuke. After Jiraiya used the frog jutsu to trap Itachi and Kisame he said: "I BARELY made them escape" Then Kisame said to Itachi: "Why a retreat is necessary for YOU?...Implying that Itachi could defeat Jiraiya. What Itachi answered then?: "We can get Naruto anytime. There is no need to be hasty....also I need rest" He didn't say: "oh...you know...Jiraiya is stronger than me". After both of them saw Jiraiya weren't impressed anymore.

    Some time ago someone said that Sannin could care less about Akatsuki because the way Tsunade scold Kakashi for lose against Itachi and Kisame. Well...this is bullshit. She didn't know anything about Akatsuki at this point. It's clearly that Sannin respect Akatsuki now

    Jiraiya: -"In the future you will fight against enemies more troublesome than Oro". (chapter 236)

    -"I wonder if they (the Sand) are capable to stop someone LIKE ME entering into the country" (Chapter 247)

    Tsunade:"Even if he stays in the village, the akatsuki will still come for him...as they did in incident at the hidden sand. If he just stays here, THE WHOLE VILLAGE WILL BE IN DANGER. As long as we keep him on the move, it'll be IMPOSSIBLE for the Akatsuki to catch up to him" (So...Tsunade thinks if the Akatsuki attacks Konoha even with her and Jiraiya and the support of hundreds of ninjas they still will be in danger) Thats why Jiraiya travel with Naruto. The reason isn't because Jiraiya can defend him against Akatsuki, but they can move around the world to be not found.

    Oro: -"He is even stronger than myself....because of that I left that organization"

    -"I must kill Naruto-kun before Akatsuki catch him" (So he can't stop Akatsuki directly...he must resort to other coward ways)

    So....in fact....all the hints of the manga aren't a circle or a contradiction.

    By the way. Oro is the strongest sannin. He is the genius of the group...he is the hardworker too (he dedicated all his life to make new jutsus while Jiraiya was writting porn and Tsunade was gambling) and he is always in his prime unlike the other 2.

    Until now it seems Itachi > Oro > Jiraiya > Tsunade.

    All sannintards bash Akatsuki and still clings in their futile hope..... Sannin aren't invincible. Akatsuki have some members equal and stronger than them. They see desperately like chapter after chapter Kishimoto destroy their "invincible aura" and they can't do nothing against it. All high level ninjas are capable to destroy each other given the right circumstances. Deidara is a bad matchup to people like Tsunade who hasn't showed any long range jutsu. On the contrary Tsunade is Sasori's natural enemy. (But she still would lose without the knowledge of Chiyo)
     
  28. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    I find it interesting everyone says "Itachi's comment meant nothing", but somehow Kisame's comment is supposed to be absolute. Itachi grew up in the leaf, he would know about legendary ninjas like Jiraiya and their capabilities far more than Kisame would, Itachi would also be more familiar with his own abilities than Kisame would be with Itachi's abilities.

    And if he believed he could take Naruto any time, why didn't he during the 3 years or so since that encounter? He probably meant he could take Naruto later when he was alone, otherwise he could have come back after sleeping and taken him.

    So until I see either Itachi or Jiraiya say something to the contrary, I'm going with Jiraiya > Itachi.

    As for not using Tsukiyomi on Jiraiya, I don't know if you noticed by they were quite a distance away, by the time he got close enough for Jiraiya to see his eyes it would been over.

    On the topic at hand, I don't recall at any time any of the sannin being referred to as equal. They each have their own strengths, but their styles are so different it would be impossible to accurately gauge them agaisnt each other.

    Tsunade easily takes it in medical and taijutsu, Orochimaru takes it in Ninjutsu and Kinjutsu and Jiraiya takes it in sealing and kuchiyose jutsu.
     
  29. ChickenPotPie HAH.

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    I thought it was mentioned that they couldn't find him after that.
     
  30. Geese Yep

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    What chapter was this (just curious)?
     
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