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[Theory] Escanor is Sentient Sunshine

Discussion in 'Nanatsu no Taizai' started by Rohan, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Rohan GFX Artist 

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    My initial theory for Escanor been born with Sunshine was because he was Mael's reincarnation. However this theory was disproved when Estarossa was revealed to be Mael. So after thinking for a long time and a few hints/foreshadowing dropped by the author, I have made my second theory, that been:-

    Escanor is actually Sunshine who obtained sentience and was reincarnated as a human.

    How is this possible? Well there are a few hints.

    First of all Doll Gowther. How can a non living thing have sentience? The initial reason that I thought was that Gowther's sentience came from Demon Gowther's heart magic. But this was disproved when Merlin stated that Gowther's heart had no Heart magic. So, Gowther even though been a non living thing actually has a personality and sentience.

    This actually ties into Demon Gowther's ability, Invasion. The slight foreshadowing is given in Chapter 274's first page. Doll Gowther can make living objects behave like non living objects. This shows Gowther removing the sentience from living things and making them into non living objects. (Gowther makes a snake into a staff and Hawk into a stone). If Invasion can remove sentience from living beings, then the opposite could probably be also true and Invasion can give sentience to non living objects. Gowther is a good example of this.

    Now Sunshine is a grace, it's a power and does not have sentience. So how did it become self aware?

    In Chapter 274, page 8; we see Mael been hit by Demon Gowther's Invasion. Mael's personality gets switched to Estarossa's and he blocks away his Goddess powers. But then we see Sunshine leaving Mael's body represented by the light sparkles. So I think as a side effect of the Invasion technique, Sunshine became self aware and left Mael's body. Eventually Sunshine would be reincarnated into a Human body, that been Escanor.

    What do you think? Do you have an alternate explanation as to how Escanor has sunshine?
     
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  2. Dayscanor The One

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    Can't say I haven't heard about this theory, tbh there's so many theories floating around that some of the crazier ones could be true.

    But I don't think that is the case here, for the simple reason that Gowther didn't give Sunshine sentience. The example you've given about Invasion just wouldn't work, because he's not literally turning animals into something else, and those are still sentient (unless you seem to think the contrary despite recent research)
    For reference
    Spoiler:



    So a pig thinks he's a rock, a snake is made to think he's a rod, and a flying fish a bird. Those are hardly inanimous objects.Invasion is just hypnosis basically, it just makes you think you're something you're not. At the core the snake is still a snake, but he takes a shape that ressembles a rod. Also we didn't see the opposite, as making the rock think he's a pig.
    In short, Invasion works on sentient beings, while the opposite is simply not true.

    As for Gowther himself, he's more like AI, or something. In a world where magic is a thing, it should be possible to have an artifical being, like homonculus for example.Also we don't know the exact process OGowther used to create Gowther, it sure as hell was never said that it was due to Invasion. OGowther is a mage just like Merlin, so he has an array of spells he can use, not just his ability.

    Meanwhile Sunshine is still inanimous in theory. So for it to acquire sentience out of the blue seems unlikely, not to mention Gowther would have to use Invasion with the purpose of giving it sentience in order for it to work. I don't think it's some random after effect.The Gowthers purpose was to make Mael switch sides, Sunshine was never their main concern, or else they'd have taken it for themselves or something.

    And in general the idea of Escanor's whole being being some personified ability, and what it entails, isn't appealing. People like his personality, so having him be a "thing" would just take that away I feel.

    My main theory about Sunshine right now is that he got it from Rosa, who might be affiliated with the Goddess clan. She has a mark on her hand that looks to be part of a triskellion, which is the symbol associated with the Goddess clan.
    Spoiler:





    It also ressembles the pattern of Escanor's eyes when he's in The One mode.
    Spoiler:



    This to me would confirm that at the very least Rosa gave the ability to Escanor.

    Basically Sunshine could have been inherited through the generations, only for Rosa to give it to Escanor A-because she was about to die from Sunshine and B- to help Escanor whom she might care about.

    I don't want to speculate too much about Rosa's identity right now because there's very little info about her.Some even say she could be the SD herself, which might be an interesting lead.

    The explanation about Mael losing his ability could simply be that because he thought he was a demon, then his body simply rejected Sunshine (or Sun actually). I don't think it necessarily has to be that Sun became sentient.Him being able to somehow absorb the decrees could be further proof of that, it's actually his body who rejected both Sun and the decrees after the Love one.

    Of course I also think it's possible Nakaba might flip the tables and make Sunshine Escanor's own ability, that he was born with. So it's too early to say what it will be.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2018
  3. Lord Valgaav My fries

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    I thought you were going to say that it was Gowther himself who turned the Sunshine into a human or that Escanor was another doll Gowther made and placed Sunshine in.

    As for me I think that Gowther somehow saved the Grace for reserve at first after creating Estarossa. We know that he was intent on creating balance in the world by giving the demons Esta since the Goddesses had Mel.

    But what about for the Sins? I think that it was Gowther once again who somehow formed the Sins to act as protectors of the world against the DK and SD.

    Like he purposefully chose the best people to stand against them. And for that team, he chose some random human to have one of the strongest powers.
     
  4. Harbour I stole all bitches.

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    Well, at least that explains why Escaper becomes weak in the night, when the sun sets, and becomes strong when the sun rises. There is no sunshine without the sun. Thats actually can be related to his power up, when he will be able to shine without the sun, like he did when he remembered his love for Merlin. Kinda interesting.
     
  5. Taizai295 Member

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    There’s a problem with the whole “Gowther forming the sins” theory though. We already know Meliodas and Merlin formed the sins in order to take down the Ten Commandments. I’m not sure how this theory would work.
     
  6. Lord Valgaav My fries

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    We were also told that Esta killed Mael. That before Meliodas left he was just some timid kid who couldn't hurt a fly. This is what we were made to believe for the longest until we found out recently that Gowther trolled the entire manga.

    I don't see it as impossible that Gowther also put it in Mel and Merlin's minds that they were the ones who formed the Sins.
     
  7. Taizai295 Member

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    And what would be the point in that? Why does every single memory need to be altered by Gowther?
     
  8. Lord Valgaav My fries

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    The full intentions of OGowther are still a mystery, but one would assume balance and peace.

    Like I said, I think he wanted to form the Sins to act as a force that would destroy the two leading powers that plague the world(DK and SD).

    So acting as the grand puppet master, OGowther has shown capable of spinning anyone's emotions, memories, and thought patterns anyway he chooses to get his desired results.
     
  9. Rohan GFX Artist 

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    I think those pictures are just visual aids for the author to get his point through. If that image of a stone was not there, most people would assume Hawk is simply sleeping. They won't know that Hawk has been transformed into a stone. If Hawk is a stone, he cannot think that he is a stone. He becomes a stone because Gowther takes away his sentience.

    It's the same thing. You can call it AI also. Basically an object gains intelligence not through natural means but through artificial means. I think it's the full stage of Invasion as introducing another completely new technique would be confusing. So yes, the author would probably expand the powers of Invasion by showcasing it's use through the original owner, Demon Gowther.

    Actually, you are right, Demon Gowther did give Sunshine sentience on purpose. I was wrong, this did not happen out of the blue. It was planned by Demon Gowther. In order for the DG (Demon Gowther)'s plan to work Mael had to be made into a Demon. For that Mael had to absorb a commandment. This was not possible as long as Mael had Sunshine, a grace. Sariel in Chapter 276, page 7 implies that a commandment and a grace are not compatible with each other.

    There is no way that DG knows how to extract a grace, but if he gives the grace sentinence then it would leave Mael's body automatically. This is because the grace by been self aware no longer needs Mael as a medium for it's power to be used. Sunshine as such became free, left Mael and Mael was able to absorb the love commandment and become a demon.

    I kind of agree with this, but there are still two big issues:-

    1) Escanor was born with Sunshine.
    2) Except for DG and Doll Gowther, No one can give Escanor Sunshine.

    2 is logical, Sunshine pretty much went MIA at the conclusion of the Holy War. There are only two people who know what happened to it that been DG and Doll Gowther. The memory manipulation would ensure that no one would know what happened to Sunshine. If Escanor was given Sunshine, only these two people can do it. This however creates issues with Point 1, how can this work if Escanor was born with Sunshine? Thus, the best conclusion is to assume that Escanor is Sunshine.

    Hence why Ludoshel says in Chapter 252, Page 15 the Fourth Archangel no longer exists (I am not sure about the English translation though) implying that for him Sunshine had ceased to exist.

    The above syncs with the profound shock of Ludoshel (Chapter 253), Sariel and Tarmiel (Chapter 257) when Sunshine is rediscovered. As far as it concerned them, Sunshine ceased to exist after Mael's death.

    Unless Rosa was Escanor's mother, this theory is doubtful as Escanor himself states he was born with Sunshine in Chapter 253, Page 18. It's highly doubtful that Escanor would lie about this as for him it's a source of pride. Thus, this was probably a natural process.

    It cannot be the SD. She was affected by Gowther's spell just like the Demon King. She would not know what happened to Sunshine.

    Mael's body cannot reject a grace. He is a goddess from birth not a demon. This makes DG's plan very hard to execute because he doesn't have many options to extract Sunshine from Mael. The commandments were been rejected by Mael because he is a goddess. The graces won't be rejected by Mael's body.


    On an off note, it can be argued that Sunshine left Mael and went back to the SD. But if this is true, why did she not give the grace to another goddess and let the war continue? Clearly Sunshine did not return to the SD because it had become self aware. With the strongest grace lost, the SD was forced to go ahead with the sealing plan.

    If SD had Sunshine why not give it to another Goddess. Why give it to a weakling human? It doesn't make sense.

    So yes, what was worse was that the Godesses lost Mael. But what was even worse was that they lost Sunshine. With the grace gone, there can be no replacements (Like Dolor and Gloxinia in the commandments case scenario) which means a significant portion of their battle power was lost).
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  10. Rohan GFX Artist 

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    Demon Gowther could have easily manipulated Melodias into forming the Seven Deadly Sins. The same way he manipulated Melodias into giving him his Love Commandment (P.S; The Demon King did not give Mael the Love Commandment, that memory was fabricated, DG gave Mael the Love Commandment). Let's not forget that Merlin was DG's student and she is probably working together with DG's ultimate villain plan.

    If DG was revived, the first and biggest threat that he would face would be the Demon King and his Ten Commandments. By forming the Seven Deadly Sins, DG can effectively take half of the Demon King's power out of the equation.

    It's possible that even Barta was manipulated by DG to form the Seven Deadly Sins by DG giving him prophetic visions. Escanor is a vital component of the Seven Deadly Sins. If DG manipulated events to make Sunshine reincarnate as a human (Escanor) then everything from the start was probably manipulated by DG.

    #gowtheristhefinalvillain

    Update: Along with DG and Doll Gowther, Merlin is the third person who could have known what happened to Sunshine. She probably knows Gowther's sin and she went for Escanor when the Seven Deadly Sins were formed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  11. Dayscanor The One

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    WTF are you on about? Invasion doesn't work that way, he basically just implants false memories and information in someone's mind, he doesn't conveniently take their sentience. Take Mael, he didn't become a demon, he still remained a Goddess, which is why Ark didn't work on him. :ohlord

    Which proves that Invasion doesn't change the nature of someone (pig is still a pig) but only makes them THINK they're something else.It's not rocket science.
    Rofl, twisting things to your convenience.

    At no point did we see OGowther talk about Sunshine, heck if losing Sunshine is as important as you make it out to be, then why not simply give sentience to it and not twist Mael like that? You guessed it, because Mael was extremely powerful even without it.

    So the real concern was Mael, and not Sunshine here.
    This is all rendered moot by the fact that their memories are unreliable, as they've been tampered with. Also how would they know about something they didn't witness themselves? As we've seen with Mael, he was all alone when "Estarossa" killed him, so none of the Archangels were around to witness it.

    Also if OGowther somehow got the grace (which we don't know he can anyway) then why the fuck did it appear only 3000 years later? And where did he keep it all this time? You gotta admit it doesn't work.

    Until it is proven that OGowther can see into the future, and would know that he'd have to wait 3000 years before he had Sunshine become a human, and even then he'd have to know that his plan to stop the HW would fail...which then renders all the stuff he did pointless.

    Oh so now you have to be related to someone by blood to give them an ability? So Fraudrin is actually Dreyfus' long lost brother, or the DK is really Mael's father? This is a manga where abilities are gained, especially the decrees and the graces. Ludo tells Escanor to give it back, so it should work just like the decrees.Escanor knows jack shit about Sunshine, he didn't even know it was a grace until Ludo told him. He assumes it's his, but that doesn't mean he gets to have what he want, pride or not.

    Yet Mael seems to think his only chance is to get the decrees, but not his grace back, I wonder why?

    Could it be because his grace would get rejected if he still had the decrees inside him? And that is why they're trying to take them out first? Thanks for proving my point.

    Again because of Invasion, Mael thought he was a demon, and in doing so his body simply let go of the grace, as a demon has no use for it.

    That is exactly what I'm trying to say, the DK somehow got the Love decree back, the one Mel had. How did he get it back? Did Mel just convenienty give it back, after he reportedly fled after killing the 2TCs, or did the DK do like Zeldris and retrieve it, with a spell like he did with Dologlox? I think the latter is more probable, since it is a part of the DK's power then it makes little sense for Mel to give it back, and in general the deities could be able to keep track of them or just retrieve them when necessary.

    If she's around as a human then she had no choice, as the Goddesses lost their bodies. It was a last resort basically,in order to ensure that Sunshine wouldn't disappear and would continue to exist through its various hosts.

    Again Mael should be incredibly strong even without Sunshine, his loss even tipped the scales back in favour of the demon clan, which was initially disrupted because of Mel's defection.
    I'm not saying that Sunshine disappearing altogether would have had no consequences either. It is precisely because of that that I think the SG would have wanted it to be still around, and why she'd bother giving it to a human in the first place. It was as a last resort, and Escanor prolly isn't the first person to get it, but it was inherited through various hosts who would ultimately die too early because of it. So while she waited for the Goddesses to get their bodies back, she prolly had various humans inherit it in order to ensure it wouldn't disappear.

    Of course it can go either way, but I still think there's quite a few inconcistencies when it comes to your theory, particularily to the bit about Invasion.



    And overall I think you're just trying to wank OGowther by making him appear to be this mastermind, when if anything he was short sighted and even though he stopped the war it was only momentarily. And needless to say that making Sunshine into a human is not very useful, as it can go whatever the fuck it wants, plus we know the disdain demons have toward humans. And in general something as powerful shouldn't be in the hands of any clan other than the demons, we more than got proof of how much damage a mere human can do to demons with it.It simply makes no sense.

    Fin.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2018
  12. Kuromaku Shiftless Loser

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    Given the negative effects of his magic on his own body, it's unlikely that Escanor is Sunshine itself given form. However, given how odd it is for a human to have lasted so long makes me wonder if there is something about Escanor (perhaps his own inborn magic) that allows him to serve as a viable container, hence his being aided by Rosa and maybe even chosen as the host of Sunshine.
     
  13. Mythoclast Hyper Lethal

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    Didn't Escanor's soul roast Merascylla then enter back into his body on it's own?
     
  14. Lord Valgaav My fries

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    Yes.
     
  15. Dayscanor The One

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    So did Ban's soul ,except for the roasting bit.

    Your point?
     
  16. Mei Well-Known Member

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    Escanor is just a normie!
     
  17. Mythoclast Hyper Lethal

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    The point of my question was to know whether or not my memory of that particular scene was correct.Should be obvious really...

    I brushed up on both scenes and Ban's soul was able to communicate with Zivago's.It also had some inner monologue and was scrambling to get away from Galan.Yeah,Ban's soul is sentient af.

    Escanor's soul displayed a question mark above it which implies that it capable of thought.It's also capable of movement and magic.Seems sentient enough to me.
     
  18. Dayscanor The One

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    Both souls are sentient, nothing to see there really.

    Escanor's soul being able to incinerate Mera just means that it is coated with Sunshine, or it fused with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  19. Mythoclast Hyper Lethal

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    Didn't deny either of this.
     
  20. Lord Valgaav My fries

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    That or he eats nothing but spicy soul food.
     
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