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They should have just asspulled Boruto and co to be stronger then Naruto & Sasuke

Foxfoxal

Well-Known Member
Who said there was no nerf? :hmm
This is not about you but I got attacked by an army of Boruto ( the series ) fans for saying Naruto was super nerfed without Kurama in reddit haha.

I don't believe Naruto/Sasuke needed to be nerfed at all BUT I do think it is actually good they were for plot and writing purposes.
Karma is basically becoming an Otosuki God isn't it? That means they have the full power of a God plus their original powers on top of that thereby being something greater.

Naruto and Sasuke were only touched and granted power by a half-god hybrid. Plus they are reincarnates. Not even the real thing.

So in my head Kawaki/Boruto were set to surpass them originally anyway but the problem lies that in order for them to reach their peak a lot of bad stuff has to happen. All that bad stuff won't go down the way the author wants because of Naruto/Sasuke always getting in the way. People are constantly annoyed how Sasuke keeps losing chakra and how Naruto is dumbed down fighting wise. So they nerf them and BOOM the kids (i.e. next generation) have to take over. Makes perfect writing sense even if the fans don't like it.
It's incompetence from the writers, you can have OP characters presents without making all the plot circling around them or making them incompetent, it's not the first or last series with OP adults as side characters.

Heck Naruto was always stuck in the hokage office and Sasuke was MIA and they did not take advantage on that, in fact they made the entire plot to be about Naruto because they made Kawaki be all about him and ofc Sasuke has to tag along, the fact that Naruto has as many fights as the MC says a lot.

We could have had normal grounded plot with the kids until shippuden even after the Momoshiki incident, having them outside the village and deal with normal ninjas, growing by themselves, but no we got directly another otsutsuki and kids dealing with villains that should speedblitz them in 1 second.
 

pumkin1988

Well-Known Member
Heck Naruto was always stuck in the hokage office and Sasuke was MIA and they did not take advantage on that, in fact they made the entire plot to be about Naruto because they made Kawaki be all about him and ofc Sasuke has to tag along, the fact that Naruto has as many fights as the MC says a lot.
Which is why they had to be "nerfed"
Sasuke always out of chakra and MIA and Naruto always in the Kage office was a huge gripe that a lot of fans had. Nerf them and that excuse has more validity and actually makes sense now. Sasuke can't warp everywhere (when literally it never made sense to not warp back to Konoha for 20 years if he has the means to do so) and Naruto can make 10000 clones but is too exhausted now? He didn't even keep up his trianing with his KBs? Bullshit. But without Kurama now he can take it easy and it is within reason for him to do so since he literally had his Bijuu taken out of him.
 

Zef

Not to be confused with ZefST the Sasuke fan
Which is why they had to be "nerfed"
Sasuke always out of chakra and MIA and Naruto always in the Kage office was a huge gripe that a lot of fans had. Nerf them and that excuse has more validity and actually makes sense now. Sasuke can't warp everywhere (when literally it never made sense to not warp back to Konoha for 20 years if he has the means to do so) and Naruto can make 10000 clones but is too exhausted now? He didn't even keep up his trianing with his KBs? Bullshit. But without Kurama now he can take it easy and it is within reason for him to do so since he literally had his Bijuu taken out of him.
I would gladly take Sasuke being MIA and Naruto being stuck to a desk over what just happened.


This nerf....it just feels wrong

Like their dignity has been taken away.


They're like Guy without being in a wheelchair.
 

Reviewing Logic

The Byakugan Empire Is Ever Resilient.
But please enlighten me in detail about Boruto and Kawaki's peak, preferably without using headcanon.
:uglycat
  • Is Isshiki stronger then Naruto and Sasuke?​
  • Is Jigen stronger then Naruto and Sasuke?​
  • Is Kawaki a better vessel then Jigen?
  • What percentage is Kawaki at?
  • Who will confront Kawaki in the future?
There is your answer. Sasuke and Naruto fought Jigen and Isshiki while having both of said powers they lost afterwards. Unless Boruto's fight with Kawaki is a team battle then you'd expect Boruto to technically surpass either of them in order to confront Kawaki. As for Kawaki 80% Isshiki is no doubt greater then Naruto or Sasuke individually so he just needs to learn how to master it and he would be like Jigen who was a imperfect vessel yet still whooped their ass. Kawaki though unlike Jigen would have the benefit of his body not breaking apart by doing so and so would even last longer. The benefits of being a perfect vessel unlike Jigen. :catshrug
 
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Boruto fans get lost in their own arguments.

"The series needed to be scaled down" but that wasn't a problem when the author decided to make the whole story revolve around overpowered aliens with gifts from Gods for the MC, right?

"Oh but the presence of Naruto and Sasuke breaks the tension and steals the shine of the new gen" so the author is not competent enough to write a story without using both for one arc? Hiruzen and Tsunade leave the Hokage office to deal with every single threat that appears? Can't they create an arc where the new gen will fight outside the village? They weren't competent to explore a single new gen character except for the Boruto and Kawaki, and is it the fault of the old gen characters who shouldn't be actively being used anymore?

And so much for "wow there's stakes" when they just didn't have the balls to kill Naruto and Sasuke. Is the intention to scale down the level? Take Naruto and Sasuke out of the scene? Both have their character arcs completed, why continue milking them and using their popularity in this series? Why don't they kill them already?

It's just a mess
 

Mapel

Well-Known Member
"Oh but the presence of Naruto and Sasuke breaks the tension and steals the shine of the new gen" so the author is not competent enough to write a story without using both for one arc? Hiruzen and Tsunade leave the Hokage office to deal with every single threat that appears? Can't they create an arc where the new gen will fight outside the village?
Naruto could send a clone to locate and one-shot Boruto's "threats" if he felt like it.
Could Tsunade and Hiruzen do that?

Have someone as powerful as adult Naruto replace them in part 1 and most of the tension goes out the window.

The CE would would have 0 deaths.
The threat of war would be non-existent.
Orochimaru's attack on the leaf wouldn't last 5 seconds.
Orochimaru himself would be done after that arc.
Shukaku would get one-shot.
A clone would solo sound 5.

Hiruzen and Tsunade were strong, Naruto and Sasuke were broken, too broken to be in a story about kids starting from the ground up.
And so much for "wow there's stakes" when they just didn't have the balls to kill Naruto and Sasuke. Is the intention to scale down the level? Take Naruto and Sasuke out of the scene? Both have their character arcs completed, why continue milking them and using their popularity in this series? Why don't they kill them already?
I agree that killing off Naruto would be better.
But then the writers will have to deal with harassment and death threats from the crybaby fanbase for years to come.

At least they managed to raise the stakes without having to deal with that crap. :catsleep
 
Hey, we had plenty of good guys dying in Naruto.
I don't remember this being a problem. All of a sudden Kurama is a big no no ?

Asuma & Hiruzen comes to mind. You gotta have consequences if you want to keep the universe believable.
 

neonion

Well-Known Member
Naruto and Sasuke should have never been that strong in the first place. It became basically:

Naruto & Sasuke
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The rest​
It’s not just about Boruto and Kawaki. The story was facing a dead end. The next villain should have been stronger than Isshiki to be a threat which would have been ridiculous. Plus, only Sasuke and Naruto would be allowed to really fight him.

Now I believe there were other ways to nerf them without killing Kurama (who was essential to Naruto’s character and not just in term of power) or destroying Sasuke’s Rinnegan but at least it’s efficient.
 

neonion

Well-Known Member
Boruto fans get lost in their own arguments.

"The series needed to be scaled down" but that wasn't a problem when the author decided to make the whole story revolve around overpowered aliens with gifts from Gods for the MC, right?

"Oh but the presence of Naruto and Sasuke breaks the tension and steals the shine of the new gen" so the author is not competent enough to write a story without using both for one arc? Hiruzen and Tsunade leave the Hokage office to deal with every single threat that appears? Can't they create an arc where the new gen will fight outside the village? They weren't competent to explore a single new gen character except for the Boruto and Kawaki, and is it the fault of the old gen characters who shouldn't be actively being used anymore?

And so much for "wow there's stakes" when they just didn't have the balls to kill Naruto and Sasuke. Is the intention to scale down the level? Take Naruto and Sasuke out of the scene? Both have their character arcs completed, why continue milking them and using their popularity in this series? Why don't they kill them already?

It's just a mess
Because Naruto is the Hokage and Sasuke is also the protector of Konoha.
The stake needed to be raised. Not all of Boruto’s fight can be fights against minor villain that has no influence on Konoha and their life. The story reached its limits with that type of arcs.
You really think some big threat can show up to destroy the village, and they can just cast Sasuke and Naruto on the side?
Even if it’s a small villain, if they are a threat to Konoha, then there is no real sense of danger because all Boruto has to do is wait for his father to neutralize the threat. Except Hiruzen and Tsunade weren’t Naruto’s level. Naruto is not just the strongest shinobi in the village but in the whole world.

Inevitably every time some villain with a higher level of power appears, people are going to ask, why is it Boruto and co that is fighting them and not Sasuke and Naruto?
 

Arles Celes

The Psychologist
Exactly.


Jiraiya is an example of a death done properly.


Kurama's death is Neji tier.
:diout

Jiraiya failed to kill Pain and the info he got was something Naruto could figure on his own. All Jiraiya accomplushed was to kill one Pain body rhat was quickly replaced. Plus we knew that Pain was not the big bad back then. Naruto did not need Jiraiyas info to beat Deva or the other Pain bodies.

Kurama on the other hand played a crucial factor in killing the actual big bad and a villain so strong that no one could match his power.

At worst one could argue that there could be a better build up for Kuramas death and less awkward farewell with Naruto.

But Kuramas sacrifice as a whole paid off far better than Jiraiyas IMO.
 

Abcdjdj1234

Well-Known Member
Yes the powerscaling has been reduced now when the next villain is code with a karma, juubi and ninja tech and the kids can totally fight him now since naruto and sasuke are nerfed, and a literally otsutsuki God has been teased


The argument makes zero sense, even if code isn't as strong as Isshiki , only naruto and sasuke even with their nerfs are the only ones capable of going up against the remaining threats in the near future atleast. I really don't see where the power scaling has been reduced or where the kids get a chance to take over (bar boruto and kawaki with massive alien asspulls)
 
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New Folder

Well-Known Member
Naruto and Sasuke should have never been that strong in the first place. It became basically:

Naruto & Sasuke
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The rest​
It’s not just about Boruto and Kawaki. The story was facing a dead end. The next villain should have been stronger than Isshiki to be a threat which would have been ridiculous. Plus, only Sasuke and Naruto would be allowed to really fight him.

Now I believe there were other ways to nerf them without killing Kurama (who was essential to Naruto’s character and not just in term of power) or destroying Sasuke’s Rinnegan but at least it’s efficient.

Kishi initiated the problem with his retarded ass Madara/Hashirama wank. :tiredpepe
and raod to be extremely powerful, is extremely narrow. it came down to who is Asura/Indra's reincarnations are... :meh

working with that is extremely hard to make things work, and frankly even after losing Kurama/Rinnegan, they are still extremely powerful. Like Madara with only EMS was stronger than all 5 Kages combined :tiredpepe


So, even despite the nerf, they are still stronger than everyone else by a huge margin... :meh
 

New Folder

Well-Known Member
Yes the powerscaling has been reduced now when the next villain is code with a karma, juubi and ninja tech and the kids can totally fight him now since naruto and sasuke are nerfed, and a literally otsutsuki God has been teased
was this pic suppose to represent you or something? :hm

Kawaki had a superior Karma than Code, and yet he wasn't as strong as Isshiki or something.
Just because Code has Karma (in its current state) doesn't mean he will be as strong as Isshiki, or even Jigen for that matter....
 

Abcdjdj1234

Well-Known Member
Kawaki had a superior Karma than Code, and yet he wasn't as strong as Isshiki or something.
Just because Code has Karma (in its current state) doesn't mean he will be as strong as Isshiki, or even Jigen for that matter....
I'm saying, code is somewhat on the same otsutsuki tier as Isshiki, not as strong as him but still somewhere near God tier with the Karma and the juubi . Naruto and sasuke are still the only ones capable of going up against him. Where has the power scaling been reduced, or where does it look like the kids are going to take over?

If code attacks naruto and sasuke are going to fight him obviously


So if the intention was to reduce the power scaling, introducing a new villain who has karma and juubi whom only naruto and sasuke can fight doesn't make any sense :scoobyhuh

It’s not just about Boruto and Kawaki. The story was facing a dead end. The next villain should have been stronger than Isshiki to be a threat which would have been ridiculous. Plus, only Sasuke and Naruto would be allowed to really fight him.

And you think anyone except naruto and sasuke can fight code with a karma and a juubi/ninja tech?

If this was meant to lower the power scaling it made zero sense
 
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New Folder

Well-Known Member
I'm saying, code is somewhat on the same otsutsuki tier as Isshiki, not as strong as him but still somewhere near God tier with the Karma and the juubi .
but that's baseless. :catblink
we don't know how much power he can use. His situation is no different than Kawaki's situation.
Based on your logic, then Kawaki should have curbfodderstomps Delta/Boro on his own for having Isshiki's power, but that was not
the case. :oldshrug

Furthermore, altho we just learned that he does have Karma, but for them (characters/ikemoto) it was always known. Despite that, he was only hyped to be around Boro's level. So, no, he is nowhere near as the same tier as Isshiki as of right now.
 

Abcdjdj1234

Well-Known Member
but that's baseless. :catblink
we don't know how much power he can use. His situation is no different than Kawaki's situation.
Based on your logic, then Kawaki should have curbfodderstomps Delta/Boro on his own for having Isshiki's power, but that was not
the case. :oldshrug

Furthermore, altho we just learned that he does have Karma, but for them (characters/ikemoto) it was always known. Despite that, he was only hyped to be around Boro's level. So, no, he is nowhere near as the same tier as Isshiki as of right now.
The kids couldn't even defeat Boro without momoshiki forget someone who has a karma and juubi however weaker codes karma and juubi may be he is definitely stronger than Boro obviously :oldshrug


Again I ask, is there anyone capable of facing code except naruto and sasuke? Don't think so
 

neonion

Well-Known Member
Yes the powerscaling has been reduced now when the next villain is code with a karma, juubi and ninja tech and the kids can totally fight him now since naruto and sasuke are nerfed, and a literally otsutsuki God has been teased


The argument makes zero sense, only naruto and sasuke even with their nerfs are the only ones capable of going up against the remaining threats in the near future atleast. I really don't see where the power scaling has been reduced or where the kids get a chance to take over (bar boruto and kawaki with massive alien asspulls)
You really think Code is Isshiki’s level with his karma? There is no reason for his karma to be stronger than Boruto and Kawaki’s V1 and we saw what Boruto could do against Isshiki in an actual 1v1.
Answer: nothing. He ended up getting destroyed.
Code can make use of the Juubi but even then he is not Isshiki’s level. Plus he needs the Juubi for the chakra fruit so he can’t risk it.
 

Abcdjdj1234

Well-Known Member
You really think Code is Isshiki’s level with his karma? There is no reason for his karma to be stronger than Boruto and Kawaki’s V1 and we saw what Boruto could do against Isshiki in an actual 1v1.
Answer: nothing. He ended up getting destroyed.
Code can make use of the Juubi but even then he is not Isshiki’s level.
I'm saying, code is somewhat on the same otsutsuki tier as Isshiki, not as strong as him but still somewhere near God tier with the Karma and the juubi . Naruto and sasuke are still the only ones capable of going up against him. Where has the power scaling been reduced, or where does it look like the kids are going to take over?

If code attacks naruto and sasuke are going to fight him obviously


So if the intention was to reduce the power scaling, introducing a new villain who has karma and juubi whom only naruto and sasuke can fight doesn't make any sense :scoobyhuh



And you think anyone except naruto and sasuke can fight code with a karma and a juubi/ninja tech?

If this was meant to lower the power scaling it made zero sense
I never said code is as strong as Isshiki, but he's not weak enough to call the power scaling reduced when he literally has a juubi and karma. Naruto and sasuke are again the only ones who will be allowed to go against him for a long time :scoobyhuh


So what did the depowering achieve in terms of roles? Naruto and sasuke are still the strongest and the only ones capable of going up against the highest threats. Nothing changed
 

New Folder

Well-Known Member
The kids couldn't even defeat Boro without momoshiki forget someone who has a karma and juubi however weaker codes karma and juubi may be:oldshrug


Again I ask, is there anyone capable of facing code except naruto and sasuke? Don't think so
Good, so having Karma on its own doesn't mean, necessarily, that you are on said Otsutsuki's level. And unlike Boruto/Kawaki, Code doesn't even have Isshiki in his karma, so his Karma should be even weaker than theirs. Therfore, as I said, your claims are baseless.

as for the Juubi, we don't know if Code can control him/use him in battle in the first place.

you are making a lot of baseless assumptions. :oldshrug
 

Abcdjdj1234

Well-Known Member
Good, so having Karma on its own doesn't mean, necessarily, that you are on said Otsutsuki's level. And unlike Boruto/Kawaki, Code doesn't even have Isshiki in his karma, so his Karma should be even weaker than theirs. Therfore, as I said, your claims are baseless.
They literally said he has pure power on the seal without isshikis soul. Free powerup
as for the Juubi, we don't know if Code can control him/use him in battle in the first place.
Yeah right juubi is there as alien Chamaru not for powerup purposes :dumbpepe
you are making a lot of baseless assumptions. :oldshrug
So I take it, you're implying the kids can fight code? :tlj
 
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neonion

Well-Known Member
I never said code is as strong as Isshiki, but he's not weak enough to call the power scaling reduced when he literally has a juubi and karma. Naruto and sasuke are again the only ones who will be allowed to go against him for a long time :scoobyhuh
Isshiki >>> Code, so yes the power scaling is being reduced. The next villain is way weaker than the previous one.

I doubt Sasuke and Naruto will be the only one to fight him when Code’s target is also and mainly Kawaki and Boruto. On top of that, if Code makes use of Karma S/T power then they will obviously need Boruto.

You’re seriously overestimating Code. A karma without the possession should logically means that it’s a weaker version of Boruto’s or Jigen’s karma since he can’t access the horn mode.
 

Abcdjdj1234

Well-Known Member
I doubt Sasuke and Naruto will be the only one to fight him when Code’s target is also and mainly Kawaki and Boruto. On top of that, if Code makes use of Karma S/T power then they will obviously need Boruto
Ah yes Another year and arc where Mitsuki and sarada are irrelevant yet again vs a big threat:pachaok


Regardless, how does that change the narrative fact about the powerscaling? It's the same as the isshiki fight then, naruto and sasuke will do the major work while boruto and kawaki help in small things which their current abilities are useful in like S/T jutsu. How did it change anything at all ?
You’re seriously overestimating Code. A karma without the possession should logically means that it’s a weaker version of Boruto’s or Jigen’s karma
But isshiki said code inherited pure power just not the soul of the otsutsuki. When did the soul contain any power?


BTW, jizzen could be a vessel for isshiki but not code who was even willing? The amount of nonsense in this plot :scoobyhuh
 

Fused

The Absolute God
I wish Zeno would erase Narutoverse from existence. I don't like it anymore.
:gglife
Your only hope is that the theory about Boruto being part of the Infinite Tsukuyomi is true.

Think about it.

Madara is oneshot by the weakest imaginable creature in existence, that lurid vermin Black Zetsu.

Obito is fully redeemed and goes to Heaven.

Kakashi becomes super awesome and even gets a Perfect Susanoo.

Kaguya and Black Zetsu are defeated in 10 minutes, while it took Hagoromo and Hamura months and months to do it.

Sasuke admits that Naruto's path was superior and redeems himself.

With the defeat of the Otsutsuki, peace finally comes to the world.

Naruto becomes Hokage, marries the woman of his dreams, has a loving family, two loving children, a large home, all the ramen he wants, and the entire world loves him as a hero and legend.

So...

Dream-like...

So beautiful, so peaceful, so heroic, so amazing...

Almost as if it was all part of an Infinite dream.

Could it be... that Sasuke was not quick enough with his Susanoo?

 
Yes the powerscaling has been reduced now when the next villain is code with a karma, juubi and ninja tech and the kids can totally fight him now since naruto and sasuke are nerfed, and a literally otsutsuki God has been teased


The argument makes zero sense, even if code isn't as strong as Isshiki , only naruto and sasuke even with their nerfs are the only ones capable of going up against the remaining threats in the near future atleast. I really don't see where the power scaling has been reduced or where the kids get a chance to take over (bar boruto and kawaki with massive alien asspulls)

That's the point.
 

New Folder

Well-Known Member
They didn't momoshiki with a bunch of Naruto's chakra did :tlj
so? You said
So I take it, you're implying the kids can fight code? :tlj
and I told you that they can fight him. :catshrug
as they were fighting Boro on equal terms, until he transformed, which needed V2 Karma.
even then, he first attacked them by surprise taking Mitsuki down.

See above. He also has a karma with pure power of isshiki. It's not rocket science he's stronger than Boro :drake
so, you are saying the manga is wrong, and your assumptions are correct? :drake

it's not like Kawaki's SUPERIOR Karma worked Vs Boro, now did it?
his viruses CANNOT be absorbed by Karma, so Code Karma won't be of much help there now would it? :drake

and Boro was fighting TWO Karma users at the same time... :sag
 

Abcdjdj1234

Well-Known Member
so? You said

and I told you that they can fight him. :catshrug
as they were fighting Boro on equal terms, until he transformed, which needed V2 Karma.
even then, he first attacked them by surprise taking Mitsuki down.


so, you are saying the manga is wrong, and your assumptions are correct? :drake

it's not like Kawaki's SUPERIOR Karma worked Vs Boro, now did it?
his viruses CANNOT be absorbed by Karma, so Code Karma won't be of much help there now would it? :drake

and Boro was fighting TWO Karma users at the same time... :sag
Code had the Karma before this chapter too? You're saying code with karma was likened to Boro previously? :scoobyhuh
 

New Folder

Well-Known Member
Code had the Karma before this chapter too?
of course, he did. Do you think he got it out of blue when Isshiki was fighting Naruto & Sasuke? :scoobyhuh

You're saying code with karma was likened to Boro previously? :scoobyhuh
he was. :catshrug
1- after Delta's defeat, HE was comparing his abilities with Boro
2- that random page about Kara (was it from the anime?) where it stated that his abilities are superior to delta, but equal to Boro. :catshrug

saying he is stronger than Boro for simply has Karma is a whole pile of nonsense
seeing how Boro fought 2 Karma users + 2 other kids at the same time. :catshrug

Both of those 2 Karma users have superior Karma than the one Code has, which you deny. :catshrug
 
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