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Tobirama Senju vs Trafalgar Law

Discussion in 'Outskirts Battledome' started by Edward Nygma, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. Edward Nygma

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    Location & Setting:
    Great Naruto Bridge. The river is frozen solid and there is heavy snowfall. Visibility periodically drops to zero. Unknown to Tobirama, he starts outside of Law's max AoE.

    Knowledge: Each knows the other possesses a space-time ability. Toibrama knows that Law's ability is restricted to an area of affect. Law knows that Tobirama's technique requires the creation of unique seals. Neither knows exactly how these restrictions impact the technique in question.
     
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  2. Keishin

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    Law is like the only broken OP character he stomps
     
  3. Mr. Black Leg

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    Tobirama, probably.

    Law, AFAIK doesn't get the Relativistic scaling.
     
  4. LazyWaka Retired Staff

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    Whats laws DC?

    Pretty sure he wins regardless since he's broken as shit and that Tobirama's Teleportation is substantially less useful do to CoO.
     
  5. Kaaant

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    Tobirama being able to make thousands of clones on par with part one nardo/Kakashi is his best bet. Clones he can teleport around and can teleport him in turn.
     
  6. Blade

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    easily city level+ and quad digits
     
  7. Edward Nygma

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    Agreed. They also come with the advantage of letting Tobirama scout Law's abilities. A single wave of clones should be more than enough for Tobirama top get the gist of Shambles and for him to measure the diameter of Room.

    Tobirama will have hit the jackpot if Law goes for a clone heart. Keeping that move up his sleeve until the real Tobirmama engages is probably Law's best bet for an easy win. If Tobirama sees it first, Law may be screwed.

    As you point out, his clones are also mobile Hiraishin tags. Mobile Hiraishin tags that can place stationary Hiraishin tags. If he can measure Law's Room early on, he should actually have the advantage in terms of map control.

    *due

    Is it all that substantial though?

    Sensing a future that involves instantaneous movement would be weird, I would think. CoO is an intent-based precog. Reading someone who intends to close an insane distance in literally no time would throw anyone. Then again...Law does have a great deal of first-hand experience with this type of movement. He's probably the exception to that rule.

    All that said, he would still need comparable speed in order to react to that kind of attack.
     
  8. J★J♥

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    Tobirama was supposed to be strongest water element user of his generatiin even tho he did not get chance to show that off during war
     
  9. Djomla

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    Law gets the Senju's Uchiha treatment.
     
  10. Kingdom Come

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    Law annihilates the poor old blue fucker
     
  11. Kaaant

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    He’s also faster (if he doesn’t get top tier scaling) stronger, and can cover the terrain in water as well as being a sensor.

    He can also probably do the basic pre genin illusions that you need to graduate the academy he invented.

    Chopping clones up if anything would just give his clones more places to teleport to, and if he needs more clones he can just disperse them.

    Tobirama can use his multiplying paper bombs without an ET
     
  12. Edward Nygma

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    Is he?

    Wiki has them both at City+. I didn't bother to check who had the edge in raw numbers.

    Can Tobirama manifest Hiraishin seals onto his body at will? I thought he had to touch himself :maybe like he does others.

    I'm sure he does. Not sure what good it will do him.

    Transformation is pretty useless for subterfuge in a 1v1. Law isn't gonna fall for Tobirama being a rock or a kunai. People being things they shouldn't be is pretty run of the mill for the OP verse. Not to mention that CoO nerfs any kind of ninja trickery, hard.

    Standard clones are just redundant af.

    I don't recall any other pre-genin illusions.

    Can he?
     
  13. OneSimpleAnime

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    Tobirama should be island level from FRS, EMS Sauce is at that level and he’s definitely not superior to Tobirama.
     
  14. Edward Nygma

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    I love every word of this sentence. That said, I don't remember anything that would lead me to scale Tobirama directly to EMS Sasuke. Are we just going off the fact that the entire Taka squad shit themselves when he lifted his finger?
     
  15. Veggie

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    Yes!
     
  16. LazyWaka Retired Staff

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    If Tobirama could teleport anywhere at will perhaps, but he has to set it up first which gives law a chance to end this from the very beginning.
     
  17. Edward Nygma

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    Tobirama has clones for days. He has no reason to engage Law with his real body. And Law doesn't have the speed needed to keep pace with a retreating Tobirama.
     
  18. LazyWaka Retired Staff

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    How good is Law with CoO? Is it good enough that he can deduce which Tobirama is the real one?

    EDIT: Just noticed the scenario has Tobirama starting outside of Laws range.

    Nevermind, he has all the time he needs to get set up.
     
  19. J★J♥

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    If Byakugan cant tell difference why should CoO ?
     
  20. Edward Nygma

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    The fight aside, this is an interesting question.

    The explanation of CoO we get from Luffy's fight with Enel implies that it's primarily intent-based. More like mind-reading than actual precog, all things considered. Hence why Luffy could hit Enel simply by not being in control of the attack angle.

    But, as I understand it, CoO has evolved into actual future sight. Pretty sure the moshi fruit guy could see the future. Don't know if Law can do that. OP was always my weakest HST verse. I can never remember anything.

    Either way, the only clue I see CoO offering is that the clones will be far more careless about their deaths. And, in the later version of CoO, he'd see them pop before killing them, and could just move on to a new target. So, as its name suggests, CoO is really just going to increase his natural observational skills. Attack patterns have generally been the best way to find the original body of a clone user.

    Do you think that gaining a mobility advantage is enough to ensure Tobirama's victory?

    If Law insta-kills everything that comes into Room, can Tobirama get a tag within striking distance of Law? Or are giant suitons enough to take down Law from afar?

    Tact should give Law plenty of options for verticle movement. Room makes it easy for him to break up the frozen river, give him something to stand on if Tobirama does flood it. I don't see him getting trolled by a big wave like some noob fruit user.
     
  21. LazyWaka Retired Staff

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    Because they are functionally different? :psyduck

    I didn't say that it would let Tobirama win. Just that he at least has options with the scenario mentioned.
     
  22. Kaaant

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    Island at absolute minimum.

    He was able to help contain a >>>continent level juubi bomb with chakra to spare. He was even surprised he couldn’t divide more because of the state of his shitty reincarnation which madara even noted.

    There’s no debate on his paper bombs being continent level. They destroyed hashirama’s Gates when juubi dama didn’t.

    Which madara did when he revived.

    Anything that is connected to him or his chakra he can teleport. When minato let’s him use his connection tobirama teleports around people he’s not even touching lmao

    No tag is needed.

    I’m not fully clued in on coO does. I was specifically referring to shit like regular Bushin - not like shadow ones will tax him I suppose.

    It’s a shame it was only anime tobirama that had bringer of darkness. iirc he’s the one of the senju brothers that’s better at genjutsu

    The data book states anyone who uses it without ET faces certain doom so yes. It’s a shame tobirama can teleport and use clones :maybe
     
  23. Kaaant

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    Pretty much. Madara considered him a rival.

    Tobirama should also be superior to kcm cloak shinobi in the war. For a long time his feat of dicing the shinju tree was looked down on but it actually is quite impressive when you look at just how strong those Shinobi were. They could tank the juubi powering up and madara’s fire attacks.

    And they got stronger when shitnato came over.
     
  24. wowfel

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    Not sure why Tobirama isn't island level it should be the bare minimum for a kage of his level.
     
  25. OneSimpleAnime

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    Hes at the very least some level of comparable to Madara and Hashi, both of whom casually scale to at least island level and can go up to country level
     
  26. Edward Nygma

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    Kakashi's KB feat is a blatant outlier. Fight me.

    The dude NEVER makes more than two or three again, and he blacks out from far less strenuous activity. Hell, he had ALREADY blacked from less strenuous activity by this point.

    That said, the Naruto feat is def legit. Pretty sure the Uzumaki clan is literally just some second-rate offshoot of the Senju clan.

    Did he, though?


    All I remember him saying is that he wanted Tobirama dead for killing his brother. Last I checked, activating the Mangekyou at the same time is Izumo's only claim to being Madara's peer. Pretty weak sauce for direct scaling.

    That said, I suppose you should probably scale Izumo over any modern-day (well, pre-Boruto) MS Uchiha. Solely based on the difference in scale between the generations. OG > pre chapter 1 > post chapter 1 in every way. Brawn: Hashi > everyone, Brains: Tobirama's contributions to ninjutsu over, like, 20 years dwarfs what Orchimaru has achieved to-date. #NoTobiramaFanboisHere

    I'm confused about the correlation between the power levels of the Cloak Shinobi and Tobirmama's ability to cut the tree. Were the Cloak Shinobi not able to do that, or something?
     
  27. Kaaant

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    “Can go up to country level” is a funny way of talking about a guy who can blatantly handle continent level attacks
     
  28. OneSimpleAnime

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    It was more of a general statement, SM Hashi outguns Mads by a huge margin and i wouldnt call Tobi comparable to his bro in Sage Mode. Base Hashi and PS Mads are country level
     
  29. Kaaant

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    Or dividing what little chakra he had didn’t require that much chakra. I doubt he would have actually been able to move if he needed to.

    Naruto was also a child and iirc his chakra control was so bad he was wasting like 1/3rd of it.

    Yes.

    “There’s a reason you brothers can’t bring out your true strength. Like it or not there’s a gulf between us now”

    So yea

    That’s because the senju brothers are the fucking boys, and legit of ten or so characters in this show worth saving.

    When minato can rip off not even half of the techniques you’ve pioneered and be considered the greatest non senju kage before naruto.

    And tobirama didn’t even dedicate solely to jutsu creation.

    The fodder ones were annihilated in seconds of touching it. It was always said the feat wasn’t impressive because mifune cut it too, but he was amped like the other Shinobi and fodder iirc could do shit like repel the juubi limbs
     
  30. Kaaant

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    Madara literally busted multiple senjutsu gates in base mode. The difference between edo and living is that significant and madara’s own words back it up.

    I don’t disagree that Sm hashi is above madara but I would imagine not significantly. Tobirama posed a threat to sm madara twice, a guy who could take bijuu punches with no susanoo.
     
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