Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by Squire of Fate, Sep 28, 2006.
I don't know what to say about this... *sigh*
but think about it. i bet they torture them anyway... Now they can just torture them in public.
So.....it's basically just to keep Bush out of jail?
like he was going to jail to begin with......
yeah basically this is just a law that allows us to do it in public instead of in private(which was illegal too). same thing different day.
Last thing I checked terrorists dont exactly follow the constitution to begin with. Plus, they arent really from the US either making them unprotected by the constitution.
If anything this would fall under LOAC or Geneva Conventions.
I personally dont care though. These terrorists would do far worse things to any of us if they caught us. For all I care they should be taken to the alley and shot.
Fine by me, I don't plan on being a terrorists, would you get mad if they let you sodomize rapists with a tire iron? I wouldn't.
what they do to us has no legal impact on we do to them. you can't just assume someone is a terrorist and because other known terrorist have done bad things you now have the right to bad thing to people you don't know are terrorists but suspect they are.
the basic idea behind the geneva convention was to ensure our own troops protection when caught. if we decide we can apply it only when we feel neccisary then down the line it will come back to bite us.
Sounds cruel, even comming from me, but I know I would never torture anyone. However I am not so naive as to think others won't, so I don't care if they do.
Good fuckin torture thoses terrorist bastards. They dont value life of otheres or themselves so its ok in my book.
I say take a steel rod and heat it to 450 degrees and shove it up there ass to welt it shut. Then let them die of shit backing up inside of them.
Or spoon feed them Mayonaise and wash it down with Olive Oil, until they start to wrecth violently. Then repeat.
This is really what they deserve.
Seeing as how these guys don't play by those rules...I think we should go by the house rules they set up.
no offense but that is just a dumb statement. We are a nation based on laws. We do not just abandon rules and laws design to protect us because we don't like someone. in essence your saying to win the war on tarror we need to be terrorists?
like I said earlier the rules are designed to protect our troops in future actions. beleive it or not but there are troops all over the world and on occasion then get detained and caught and because we follow the geneva conventions we can expect certain treatment of those detained soldiers. the geneva conventions was meant as a universal rule just because a small few do not follow it does not mean we get to throw out the rule. Nor can we be selective and say it just applies to our own set of criteria because that just opens the door for other countries to do the same then in effect there would be no genevia convention and no expectation of our troops being detained without harm.
look believe it or not there is a future and we have to make decisions on things past today and tomorrow and one of them is actually being in a major offensive war. maybe with N. korea or even china down the road and when that time comes (hopefully it doesn't) we will want the geneva conventions to be in tack and upheld.
Yet again Bush has torn up another treatie and legislation that he finds inconvenient. The damages he wreaks on America will not be undone easily.
These are terror suspects, meaning it's not established whether or not they've commited a crime when they start to torture them. If these terror suspects were confirmed terrorists, they wouldn't bother torturing them, they would just be sent straight to prison and/or executed.
A lot of innocent people are going to be totured thanks to this new law. And since a hell of a lot of people give false confessions under torture, a lot of innocent people are going to be prosecuted and possibly executed thanks to this new law.
It's documented throughout history that torture is ineffective and inhumane and oddly enough, only used by cruel, archaic regimes and governments.
It's nice to see Bush is still trying to push his country back into the stone age and largely succeeding.
Umm, what? Are some of you insane?
First off, this allows him the power to redefine the Geneva Conventions, which are a sort of world-wide agreements between many nation states about what to do under certain circumstances, including the holding and treatment of prisoners. The Geneva Conventions are really specific, and detail the specific things that you cannot do.
Bush, by redefining the Conventions to suit his needs, has just rendered them ineffective and has now opened the the path for other countries to ignore or redefine the Conventions to suit their needs.
Translation: Now other countries can torture our soldiers, and we can't say jack shit because they are obeying their version of the Conventions, just as we are obeying our version.
Two, these are not terrorists. These are suspected terrorists, which were taken breaking various rights and using several powers that are not normally accorded to the President, especially not in secret. This includes the ability of habeas corpus, which means that you cannot be taken and detained unless there is a reason, with proof.
Basically, Bush pointed his finger and said "OMG! There's a guy who looks like he may possibly know the grocer who sold a tomato to the mom of a terrorist! Get him, he may know something!" and they arrested the man. No proof, no reason. They are just suspects, they are all quite possibly and probably innocent.
So those that say they deserve this are deluded. Jeez.
This is nearly word for word what I was going to say!
I think that people really need to understand the fact that they are talking about torture of suspects, people that have not been deemed 100% guilty.
As far as I'm concerned, this is just seeing the Patriot Act through, till we live in a right-wing totalitarian police state. Well, at least for two more years.
Ever since that garbage passed, I no longer felt safe living in the USA. More nails in the coffin of our nation. We, more often than anyone, are being terrorists, and forever more passive to it. But we're legal!
If "torture" includes having guard dogs scare prisoners (no actual attack here), in order to give out information to save lives, I'm all for it.
I doubt we'll see anyone shoving 1 inch splinters under an Arab's fingernails at the airport, because he is suspected of terrorism.
Give me a break.
Right. But they get to redefine the meaning of torture to our standards. Which means other nations get to do the same. Which places our soldiers at risk.
Heck, just looking at it from a selfish point of view, I don't even care what happens to the "terrorists," I care about what happens to the troops the U.S. has deployed.
From a non-selfish point of view, those are not even guilty of the nothing they have been accused of.
See, it works both ways!
Considering America is scared of half of the planet and considers everyone terrorists, this isnt good.
I'm still waiting for Jihad and shit to blow up all around the world, nukes and all that.
How does one win an ideological guerrilla war? What rights are Americans willing to define as absolutely inalienable? Do people really understand the sacrifice to maintain such rights?
If only American politics wasn't so... broken.
basically what i was coming in here and say...wow at some of you guys.
You cry when a girl gets a little sperm on her dress but say other people should be tortured because they were accused of being terrorists?
I'm totally with falconmain's opinion. You can't start torturing people in public. Such acts will push your "terrorists" to do worst in their country. Americans are entering in a game they shouldn't and lowering themselves. But is it really surprising coming from Bush's administration ?...
Amaretti brings a good point too by saying they are terror suspects, and not necessarly terrorists. Would it be fair to beat them and torture them because we "think" that they could have made it ? You can take any arab guy which looks a bit like Osama and kick his ass also, mostly because of racism, and kick his ass, pacifist or not.
I hope Canada will never cross that line.
Wow their goes the fucking Geneva convention. Were is the bloody U.N. when you need them.
Will it be like in ichi the killer? No? hmmmm
Ya'll do know that these nutjobs aren't a part of anybody's military or goverment? And therefore they don't follow the rules we follow.
And WHY does that matter?
Bush is a dictator.
Meaning they will torture us, even if we outlaw it worldwide.
I'm beginning to wonder about this myself. When people violate the Geneva convention, they normally get America and a couple of major European countries to go in to dismantle the government.
The UN could actually start sanctioning the US for breaking international law. However you look at this, this is breaking the law, and Bush is a criminal for pushing this legislation through. If the UN lets him get away with it, then the Geneva Convention is worthless and we might as well just start torturing petty criminals we think might have been pickpocketing.
I hope the UN finally grows a backbone and puts a stop to this disgusting breach of human rights.
That's because they're criminals! Jeez! And if American government acts the same way, they they themselves are criminals by their own definition.
If you're a force for good, you stick to the law. Duh. You do not sink to the level of terrorists over emotional reasons, because you are supposed to be better than them.
Or are you?
I don't believe America is so weak against terrorists that it needs to resort to breaking the law to catch them.
And as has been pointed out again and again, the people up for the torture are not terrorists. They're terror suspects and the majority of cases, these people turn out to be innocents.
Maybe we can be like any other country and just forget the whole legal and illegal thing and just "do it" like before.
Suspects are not guilty, and even then torture is still verbotten. We're supposed to be the humane good guys, remember? What is the flag good for besides a peice of cloth if the ideals it stands for are in tatters?
Here's a question to the people backing this manner of bullfuckery, would you want US troops accorded this standard? The funny part about holding a moral high ground people like to forget is that you actually have to hold it, not just claim you do endlessly. That's what those pig fucking terrorists do, are we that close to trying to emulate them?