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Trafalgard Law and the haki problem.

Discussion in 'Ohara Library' started by Gledania, May 14, 2018.

  1. Gledania Luffy > Zoro > Sanji

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    (If I make any error while writing this thread , I ask forivness , I started english recently)

    I was looking about some discussions in one piece batledome ,reddit , youtube ect ... and noticed something about law , whether we put "Law vs zoro" "law vs jack" "law vs luffy" Big mom ,katakuri , the dukes, shanks or even kaido or anybody else, the same question raise from everywhere :

    Is law able OR NOT to cut haki of someone with a better armement haki ? The 3 admiral on marinford where able to stop whitebeard's waves, I don't get peoples saying that nobody is able to do the same with law.

    Was vergo cut because his haki was weaker ? Did law even use haki at that time ???? Or was it because of how strong his attack was ? I don't have a problem with exaggerated power, but only if it make sens to the manga. Sugar's devil fruit is crazy , and if sanji had the same devil fruit for exemple he could one shot any body just by touching them, but sugar is little girl and as long you stay far from her you are fine. Same with robin , her power is crazy, but someone with good armement haki may protect himself from her , and she can't dodge long distance attack. But law power is another level .... What I mean is , if we assume law is able to ignore haki , than he is currently stronger than Kaido. Because why not ???? If kaido use armement haki he will get slice like a cheese.

    Law stated that they have only 30% chance to win against kaido when he was making an alliance with luffy ... But if he can use shambles against all kaido's crew and trow them in the water or slice any of them ... then why bothering making an alliance with luffy ????

    Law with his ability (if it DOES ignore haki ) is >>>> X drake , Hawkins ,zoro, luffy, capone , and all the other supernova. He is also more powerfull than most of the shishibukai , yonko's generals , Kaido black beard ,shanks and , WHY NOT , Roger himself !

    When writers make stories with characters with overpowered abilities they tend to make strong limit to balance their fights against other weakier oppenents. HunterXHunter is the best example for it.

    In law's case I see no real limit.

    Another way (clearly irrespectfull to the fans) is to place the character in shity situation or made him making stupid decisions on a fight that led him to loose, like using only his sword and not his ability for whatever reason , or suddenlty catching a decease that limit his power , having a trauma or others ultra-improbable and unrealistic situations wich justify why overpowered people loose their fight.

    If it's an antagonist charachter I don't mind , 'cause most of the time they tend to underestimate their oppenent and start by playing with them (like donfla who was underestimating luffy and law) and suddently realise their error and end up loosing. But in law case , he have no reason to unerestimate any futur ennemy, he is going to fight an youko crew !

    I don't want to see law one shoting jack then kaido in wano while the other supernova being useless and watching him like "uh ... so we return home now ?" , nor I want him to end up with seastone handcuufs like in Dressrossa or some shity escuse like this as a pretext to let other character win the batle in his place while HE is the one whatching .... I want a correct fight from him , not that hax shit.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
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  2. cry77 Dont rustle my Jimmies.

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    IT doesnt ignore haki, though. On PH it was made clear that haki is its WEAKNESS.

    Smoker blocked Law's sword using haki (immediatly after telling Tashigi she lacked strong enough haki).
    Doflamingo, knowing exactly what the Ope Ope no mi does, was confident Vergo's haki would simply ignore Law's hax.


    I imagine it's a "numbers game" like any MMORPG.
    If Law's haki is > his opponents haki, his ability works like it would anyone else.

    If Law's haki is < his opponents haki, his ability does nothing (or at least mitigates it heavily).

    Someone like Kaidou can probably ignore most of Law's abilities through haki.
     
  3. Gledania Luffy > Zoro > Sanji

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    But Law's sword was not covered by black hardening haki when he sliced vergo. It's true that you can use simple haki without turning it black (like we saw in marinford) but isn't Black hardening haki better than simple hardening haki ?

    And I don't remember smoker using haki while fighting law , he was using Nanashaku jitte wich is made with seastone
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  4. Shiba D. Inu #admiralgang

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    its obvious to me its a combination of his DF/cuts "penetration power", amped by his own CoA

    so if he had no CoA - he wouldnt be able to cut Vergo .. but he did and it was just strong enough (above Dofla expectations .. but I think it was still below Vergos raw CoA fullbody black armor level) to amp his cut enough for it to become > Vergo level

    but it wouldnt be > or = top-tier level so Law with his PH/DR level haki (& DF mastery) cant cut a fully defending admiral or yonkou


    question is - do the same above rules apply also to Mes and Gamma Knife ? .. they probably do
     
  5. Jake CENA BAH GAWD KING, IT'S JAKE CENA!!

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    i can't remember PH but correct me if im wrong but i think Law never used CoA in any of those fights. at least when he's attacking using room anyway.

    ope ope is definitely hax. imagine if it was under Mihawk's possession :argh
     
  6. Shiba D. Inu #admiralgang

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    tbh I presume that its pretty much standard to use some CoA in all post-skip fights of ~M3 level or higher

    its not going to be blackened every time


    I can not see how Law would have been able to cut black Vergos uber defence if he wasnt putting his own haki into it .. only haki fights haki
     
  7. Gledania Luffy > Zoro > Sanji

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    So you mean even if law haki is inferior ton somebody else , his Devil fruit + his haki > more powerfull armement haki ?

    Example if he fight luffy , he can cut him in his G4 form using his haki+his ability ???
     
  8. Sherlōck High Functioning Sociopath

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    If the force of his swing (without Haki) >> Opponents Haki then his opponents will divide into two.

    If the force of his swing (without Haki) = Opponents Haki then nothing happens.

    If the force of his swing + Haki = Opponents Haki then nothing happens.

    If the force of his swing + Haki >> Opponents Haki then his opponents will divide into two part.
     
  9. cry77 Dont rustle my Jimmies.

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    As explained by Shiba, it's likely a combination between physical stats, abilities and haki. Law didnt use Hardening because I guess it wasnt necessary. Law was apparently so much better than Vergo that simple haki, coupled with Laws own raw stats+hax was enough to penetrate Vergo's Haki+Raw stats.

    In a MMORPG I guess it would look like:
    Law:
    Physical stats - 50
    Haki - 50
    Abilities - 50
    Total: 150

    Vergo:
    Physical stats - 60
    Haki - 60
    Abilities - 0
    Total: 120.

    So in a direct clash of power, Law would come out on top.

    And Smoker was using haki, only the tip of the jutte is covered in seastone, and we have LITERALLY seen Law cut straight through seastone. His ability disregards physical stats, that's what makes it insanely overpowered.

    Consider haki an "equalizer" of sorts. It levels the playing field

    Agreed, and as for your question, I see no reason why it wouldnt? Haki has the same general properties no matter the technique.
     
  10. Samehadaman Well-Known Member

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    Vergo made it plenty clear that strong enough armament could protect from room.
    However he underestimated Law's DF mastery and/or haki, or overestimated his own armament.

    In any case as we saw Doflamingo could prevent Law from separating him. It also didn't need to be black hardening because Doflamingo surely wasn't all black during his Law fights.
     
  11. Jake CENA BAH GAWD KING, IT'S JAKE CENA!!

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    Maybe Oda forgot all about that one time :maybe

    :smartgoku
     
  12. Mister LoLz Banned

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    It will likely turn out to be like this.
     
  13. Fel1x Friend of the Grummles

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    Well, after Marineford when WB can't damage Admiral's logia I would say Haki is a matter of a plot. When needed it works.
     
  14. Mister LoLz Banned

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    Marineford was really inconsistent. I would prefer if we don't talk too much about it. It would be too hard to explain all encounters that happened there.
     
  15. Samehadaman Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean? Whitebeard had haki, was using it, and damaged logia. Akainu would take no damage from those punches without haki used.
    If you're talking about the Aokiji scene, it's simply that Aokiji dodged the stab by opening up an ice hole in his chest instead of trying to tank it, there was even a fodder commenting on the haki stab.

    Back then Oda didn't paint it black but it was otherwise plenty clear.
     
  16. Gledania Luffy > Zoro > Sanji

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    Does that means that he will need to phisicaly touch a whole body covered haki opponents or he may slice him from long distance ? I'm not sure his ability got anything to do with the force of the swing.
     
  17. Forcer Perona Lover

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    I just want to point out that being small is part of her fruit, her fruit is a toy fruit, its about imagination, playing with toys. If Sanji or anyone else ate the fruit would turn into a child. Something hax always has a negative side.
    Laws fruit is like an operation room, Law is a doctor and the sword is a scalpel, a scalpel isn't meant to kill so inside the room his slash doesn't kill, it doesn't damage or hurt, this ain't always a good thing, and he requires much concentration when ''operating'', just like a real doctor operating, not only haki can counter him but speed may too because it may get difficult for Law to concentrate and have a precise and effective slash, Smoker was moving all over the place fighting Law preventing Law from successfully slashing him. Its a tricky fruit to face but imagine if Law had failed to cut Vergo in half cause Vergo had decided to dodge instead of tank the move, and had lost one arm instead. Vergo would had lost no momentum, would still be running and kicking the shit out of Law, he wouldn't feel pain and wouldn't had taken any damage, Law would be ko and Vergo would just pick his arm and attach it back in its place.
     
  18. PureWIN Mr. Prince

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    Hardening is to make your fists and legs physically harder for greater blunt damage. But for swords, hardening is used for protecting the actual blade. That's the reason we've only seen Zoro use hardening once: while cutting up Pica's stone golem at high speeds.

    Law's DF hax seemingly makes it so that his sword never encounters any resistance, so he has no need for ever using hardening on his sword.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  19. jayjay³² Drug Addict

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    And here’s the winning post. Law obviously needs CoA to make sure his DF is effective against opponents with CoA but doesn’t use hardening specifically because it serves no purpose to him.
     
  20. Mister LoLz Banned

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    Except for defense which he actually have shown at Dressrosa.
     
  21. J★J♥ Vento Aureo

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    It did not cut Vergo it cut space Vergo was in. Being "cut" by it does 0 damage.
     
  22. Go D. Usopp Straw Hats Wanker

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    watch law vs doffy and fujitora and u will see his hax blockable. I believe even sugar's DF can be blocked with haki at the right time.

    nontheless tho, if law got as strong as mihawk and he has that DF ability he will be insanely broken. But know that his slashes are still dodgeable.
     
  23. Canute87 Nuke Imminent

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    either that or kiji shifted his real body.
     
  24. Mister LoLz Banned

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    Aokiji shifted his body when WB stabbed him. Canute is right.
     
  25. Etherborn Blade of the Myriad

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    Law definitely used haki against Vergo. The lack of the black shading just means he wasn't using hardening, not that he wasn't using haki at all. This has happened many times after the timeskip. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji have all used armaments haki without using armaments hardening. I'm not sure why people are still thrown off by this.

    So yes, haki nullifies Room's effects. But if the Ope Ope no Mi user can use haki as well and is better at it, it cancels out.
     
  26. DiscoZoro20 Ōka Shichibukai

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    I don´t think that is completely accurate. Hardening (or maybe haki in general) also seems to make you physically stronger. Vergo went from normal sized, slim, average man to super-buff once he used hardening. Same with Pica whose muscles looked even more defined in that scene. Boundman is another example, normally if Luffy blows himself up like that his body looks fat or his limbs look huge but it doesn´t gain muscles like that. Zoro´s attacks also seemed a lot more powerful given that he cleanly sliced through the golem once he applied haki and I´m not 100% convinced that that is solely because he used a stronger named attack, the difference looked far too great. So imo it´s not just about protecting your body or weapons but also a small strength booster.
     
  27. Gledania Luffy > Zoro > Sanji

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    So law's haki was better than vergo's haki when he sliced him ?
     
  28. DiscoZoro20 Ōka Shichibukai

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    I don´t know where I mentioned that in my post but yes I do believe it is stronger. Law is a swordsman after all. Weaker haki will not only mean that his main devil fruit ability fails but also cause his weapon to break.
     
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