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Trump lashes Germany over gas pipeline deal, calls it Russia's 'captive'

Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by RavenSupreme, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. RavenSupreme Well-Known Member

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    BRUSSELS (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump launched a sharp public attack on Germany on Wednesday for supporting a Baltic Sea gas pipeline deal with Russia, saying Berlin had become “a captive to Russia” and he criticized it for failing to raise defense spending more.

    Trump, meeting reporters with NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg, before a NATO summit in Brussels, said it was “very inappropriate” that the United States was paying for European defense against Russia while Germany, the biggest European economy, was supporting gas deals with Moscow.

    Trump was due to meet German Chancellor Angela Merkel at the summit later in the day and will meet Russian President Vladimir Putin in Helsinki on Monday.

    Berlin has given political support to the building of a new, $11-billion pipeline to bring Russian gas across the Baltic Sea called Nord Stream 2, despite qualms among other EU states. However, Merkel insists the project is a private commercial venture and is not funded by German taxpayers.

    “When Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia,” Trump said to Stoltenberg. “We’re supposed to be guarding against Russia and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions of dollars a year to Russia.


    “We’re protecting Germany, we’re protecting France, we’re protecting all of these countries. And then numerous of the countries go out and make a pipeline deal with Russia where they’re paying billions of dollars into the coffers of Russia.

    “So we’re supposed to protect you against Russia and you pay billions of dollars to Russia and I think that’s very inappropriate,” Trump said at the residence of the U.S. ambassador in Brussels.

    “Germany will have almost 70 percent of their country controlled by Russia with natural gas. You tell me, is that appropriate?,” he asked, while Stoltenberg listened.


    At one point, the former Norwegian prime minister pointed out that the NATO allies in Europe disagreed among themselves on ways to reduce the continent’s reliance on Russian gas.

    “Germany is totally controlled by Russia, cause they are getting 60 to 70 percent of their energy from Russia and a new pipeline.”

    Trump renewed his call for other NATO allies to pay in more to the Western alliance after years in which U.S. taxpayers have, he said, borne an “unfair” share of military spending.


    “I think these countries have to step it up, not over a 10 year period, they have to step it up immediately. Germany is a rich country, they talk about increasing it a tiny bit by 2030. Well they could increase it immediately, tomorrow, and have no problem,” Trump said.

    “If you look at it, Germany is a captive of Russia. They got rid of their coal plants, they got rid of their nuclear, they’re getting so much of their oil and gas from Russia. I think it is something NATO has to look at. It is very inappropriate.”

    ----



    I follow the North Stream 2 developments and I am not surprised to see this outlash.

    I am in favour of North Stream 2, however I also think in addition the EU should at least consider possible import from the US.

    Instead of making it a deal with only one of the great exporteurs, having the possibility to buy from 2 would be a great way to increase the competiveness.

    Energy is a buyers market after all. And the EU is the biggest buyer in the world. A netto-importeur.
     
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  2. Pliskin Well-Known Member

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    Comments like these show that the gass pipeline is essential, so we are not energy dependent on a country we are at (trade) war with.

    Makes me reconsider our former chancellor, whose many mistakes I took this pipeline to be one of.
     
  3. RavenSupreme Well-Known Member

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    Yeha definetly. I think many people are stuck in "either/or" thinking, whereas I am of the believe that the EU has the onme who imports the energy it has to consider all the options.

    Right now Russia imports 40% of all the netto imports, or around 20% of the EUs total gas.

    Thats a lot, but it sure is not as overwhelming as many make it out to be (many think the 40% mean all of the gas in total, not from just the imports).

    Getting similar deals with the US, Iran, Saudi Arabia are what the EU focuses on a lot and this is just one part of it. Albeit an important one.
     
  4. wibisana still newbie

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    What is wrong with buying gas and building pipelinento russia.

    Pretty sure it is way effective than buying gas from Indonesia and carrying it by freigther ships which vulnerable to hijacking in Somalia, weather and other variable.
     
  5. Chelydra Devour them all.

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    Russia is an enemy that the US is protecting Europe from for one, secondly they are supposed to be sanctioned for invading and annexing part of the Ukraine.

    So yeah this further shows European hypocrisy, they don't pay properly for their NATO defense obligation, while the US shoulders most of it, yet they do business with the very enemy they want protection from, at the expense of our interests. The EU continues to show it can't even form a united front on it's own.
     
  6. RavenSupreme Well-Known Member

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    Nah it aint that easy. There is no THEM and US policy in the geostrategical game. There are different interests all countries have with each other, especially key players like the US, Russia and the EU.

    I understand your angle, but there are several economical and political factors at play which greatly outshine simple "they enemy one one side we good guys on other side" thinking.
     
  7. Pliskin Well-Known Member

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    Also, we have to keep in mind Trump dangled easing sanctions several times already, so Europe should avoid one-sidedly keeping onto them to their own detriment but instead play all sides equally.
     
  8. makeoutparadise I will have my revenge

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    Trump: why cant we be friends with russia wouldnt it be nice if we had better relations with Russia?

    Also Trump: Germany is a captive of Russia! What friggin tools they are
     
  9. hadou bad motherfucker

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    Money makes the world spin around, and hypocrisy is its bank. There are no right or wrong parties, just pertinent interests.
     
  10. RavenSupreme Well-Known Member

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    I really chuckled at Merkels response I have to admit. She was all like, i was raised under sovjet control in east germany bitch. this aint it.

    Of course in her typical, stoic and unemotional way of speaking.
     
  11. Cardboard Tube Knight Breaking hearts; breaking rackets

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    This further shows you don't know what you're talking about.

    No one is under more Russian influence in NATO than us. He's complaining about someone having trade with a country near them while he meets behind closed doors without advisors with the leader of a country that had been hostile with us since the end of WWII.
     
  12. egressmadara Wanderin' About

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  13. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    This is what we call PROJECTION class.
     
  14. WorkingMoogle Well-Known Member

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    Ever seen a woman interact with the woman that's flirting with her boyfriend?
     
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  15. wibisana still newbie

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    The line was planned and funded long before any of those happened
     
  16. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    AKAIK Merkel and Putin are a rare pair of world leaders who both know the other's first language.

    Having grown up in the East Germany, Merkel would have learned Russian as her first foreign language. And Putin for his part learned German as part of his work as a KGB intelligence officer in that same country.
     
  17. RavenSupreme Well-Known Member

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    Yeha. And they send each other little presents



    I think this is an overlooked little detail since it shows two world leaders, while completely disagreeing on key issues, still hold value in communication with one another to further their agendas. Disciplined. Unemotional. Respectful.
     
  18. Drake WORK MAKES YOU FREE

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    Trump seems to be bipolar on Russia.

    What do the other European nations like the UK think of this?

    Right...

     
  19. RavenSupreme Well-Known Member

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    This incident got referred in the article I posted as well. Politics aint a game of friendship. Its a game of interest and might.

    It most definetly is not a game where you make decisions due to bearing a grudge over another politicians move on the chess board.
     
  20. IchLiebe Da Sage

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    did you ever hear the story of why he is a hero...no, a person of high respect within the KGB? He kept the intelligence under his duty safe until destruction in a highly valuable location filled with valuable intelligence. He faced an angry mob alone more or less unarmed and bitched them put.



    german s think Hitler was worse than Stalin....lol Stalin would kill his own with no regard.


    On topic

    People don't understand the power Russia still has over Eastern Europe and some West European countries in regard to energy. If Putin wanted to black out most of Ukraine, estonia, lithuania, Ukraine, etc, he could with a flip of a switch.Russia also has arguably stronger ties to North Korea than china and more influence.

    Germany above all should oppose Russia in all spectrums no matter what.
     
  21. Drake WORK MAKES YOU FREE

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    Then I wouldn't call their relationship "respectful" if incidents like that take place.
     
  22. Rukia I’m the fucking game!

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    Everything Trump said is correct.

    These NATO countries are robbing Peter to pay Paul. It's fucking absurd.

    We get nothing out of this alliance. Just a bunch of pretend friendships. We are the ones that have to go to the Middle East and broker peace. We get no help whatsoever from the Germany's of the world.
     
  23. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    Guess you don't mind if the EU joins the , then?
     
  24. Eros banned

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  25. Matto Chosen One

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    Does the EU even honestly need "protection" from Russia at this point?

    The EU seems like it would have much stronger forces when combined.
     
  26. Eros banned

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    Perhaps we'll get a chance to see soon. The first world war in which the US is neutral like Switzerland. That's an interesting scenario.
     
  27. Drake WORK MAKES YOU FREE

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    The EU would not lose to Russia in a war, nor could I ever conceive the US being neutral in such a situation despite Trump's words.
     
  28. Matto Chosen One

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    Why though? It seems like a war would cost way more to both sides than either side would stand to gain.
     
  29. Eros banned

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    Who knows? The world just seems so tense these days, and a global conflict at some point is inevitable within the next 50 years.
     
  30. Atlas .

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    I think this just might be the biggest case of projection in human history.
     
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