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Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Discussion in 'The NF Covfefé' started by silverflash, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. The Handsome Klad Itachi's Bishieness

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    Are you serious? Isreal is that OP? If they can fend for themselves against that many enemies good for them.
    Still, it saddens me that he has done this. I know the hate between the Jews and Muslims in that area is very very deep.
    To be fair, NK can't do shit but the muslim world on the other hand... they've got tenacity.
     
  2. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    During the Cold War most Communist countries were pro-Palestine. China didn't recognize Israel until 1992, after the CW was over.



     
  3. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    Arabs and Muslims across the Middle East on Wednesday condemned the U.S. recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital as an incendiary move in a volatile region and Palestinians said Washington was abandoning its leading role as a peace mediator.

    The European Union and United Nations also voiced alarm at U.S. President Donald Trump's decision to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem and its repercussions for any chances of reviving Israeli-Palestinian peacemaking.

    Major U.S. allies came out against Trump's reversal of decades of U.S. and broad international policy on Jerusalem.

    France rejected the "unilateral" decision while appealing for calm in the region. Britain said the move would not help peace efforts and Jerusalem should ultimately be shared by Israel and a future Palestinian state. Germany said Jerusalem's status could only be resolved on the basis of a two-state solution.

    Israel, by contrast, applauded Trump's move. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in a pre-recorded video message that it was "an important step towards peace" and it was "our goal from Israel's first day".

    He added that any peace accord with the Palestinians would have to include Jerusalem as Israel's capital and he urged other countries to follow Trump's example. [L8N1O660O]

    Trump upended decades of U.S. policy in defiance of warnings from around the world that the gesture risks aggravating conflict in the tinderbox Middle East.

    The status of Jerusalem is home to sites holy to the Muslim, Jewish and Christian faiths. Its eastern sector was captured by Israel in a 1967 war and annexed in a move not recognized internationally. Palestinians claim East Jerusalem for the capital of an independent state they seek.

    Israel deems Jerusalem its eternal and indivisible capital dating to antiquity, and its status is one of the thorniest barriers to a lasting Israeli-Palestinian peace.

    Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, in a pre-recorded speech, said Jerusalem was the "eternal capital of the State of Palestine" and that Trump's move was "tantamount to the United States abdicating its role as a peace mediator."

    The last round of U.S.-brokered talks foundered in 2014 over issues including Israeli settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank and Israeli accusations of Palestinian incitement to violence and refusal to recognise it as a Jewish state.

    The Palestinian Islamist group Hamas, which has dominated Gaza since soon after Israel ended a 38-year occupation in 2005, said Trump had committed a "flagrant aggression against the Palestinian people". Hamas urged Arabs and Muslims to "undermine U.S. interests in the region" and to "shun Israel".

    Protests broke out in parts of Jordan's capital Amman inhabited by Palestinian refugees, with youths chanting anti-American slogans. In the Baqaa refugee camp on Amman's outskirts, hundreds roamed the streets denouncing Trump and urging Jordan to scrap its 1994 peace treaty with Israel. "Down with America...America is the mother of terror," they chanted.

    Angry Palestinians switched off Christmas lights at Jesus' traditional birthplace in the West Bank town of Bethlehem and in Ramallah. A tree adorned with lights outside Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity, where Christians believe Jesus was born, and another in Ramallah, next to the grave of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, were plunged into darkness.

    All Palestinian factions called for a general strike and protest rallies at midday on Thursday.

    "LEGALLY NULL" DECISION

    The Saudi Royal Court issued a statement saying that the kingdom followed "with deep sorrow" Trump's decision and warned of "dangerous consequences of moving the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem".

    The statement described the move as "a big step back in efforts to advance the peace process", and urged the U.S. administration to reverse its decision and adhere to international will.

    Egypt, which forged the first Arab peace deal with Israel in 1979, brushed off Trump's decision and said it did not change Jerusalem's disputed legal status.

    Jordan said Trump's action was "legally null" because it consolidated Israel's occupation of East Jerusalem.

    Lebanese President Michel Aoun said Trump's Jerusalem decision was dangerous and threatened the credibility of the United States as a broker of Middle East peace. He said the move would put back the peace process by decades and threatened regional stability and perhaps global stability.

    Qatar's foreign minister, Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani, said Trump's undertaking was a "death sentence for all who seek peace" and called it "a dangerous escalation".

    Turkey said Trump's move was "irresponsible".

    "We call upon the U.S. Administration to reconsider this faulty decision which may result in highly negative outcomes and to avoid uncalculated steps that will harm the multicultural identity and historical status of Jerusalem," the Turkish foreign ministry said in a statement.

    A few hundred protesters gathered outside the U.S. consulate in Istanbul, a Reuters cameraman at the scene said. The protest was largely peaceful, though some of the demonstrators threw coins and other objects at the consulate.

    Iran "seriously condemns" Trump's move as it violates U.N. resolutions on the Israel-Palestinian conflict, state media reported. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said earlier in the day that the United States was trying to destabilize the region and start a war to protect Israel's security.

    In Southeast Asia, the leaders of Muslim-majority Indonesia and Malaysia denounced Trump's action.

    "This can rock global security and stability," Indonesian President Joko Widodo, leader of the world's largest Muslim-majority nation, told a news conference in which he called for the United States to reconsider its decision.

    British Prime Minister Theresa May disagreed with Trump's embrace of Jerusalem as Israel's capital before a final-status agreement as this was unlikely to help nurture peace in the region, her spokesman said.

    However, May's spokesman welcomed Trump's stated wish to end the conflict and his acknowledgement that the final status of Jerusalem, including boundaries within the city, must be subject to negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians.

    French President Emmanuel Macron said he did not support Trump's "unilateral" move.

    "The status of Jerusalem is a question of international security that concerns the entire international community. The status of Jerusalem must be determined by Israelis and Palestinians in the framework of negotiations under the auspices of the United Nations," Macron told reporters in Algiers.

    "France and Europe are attached to a two-state solution - Israel and Palestine - living side by side in peace and security within recognised international borders with Jerusalem the capital of both states," he said.

    "For now, I urge for calm and for everyone to be responsible. We must avoid at all costs avoid violence and foster dialogue," he said.

    U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres said there was no alternative to a two-state solution and Jerusalem was a final-status matter only to be settled through direct talks.

    "I have consistently spoken out against any unilateral measures that would jeopardize the prospect of peace for Israelis and Palestinians," Guterres said. "I will do everything in my power to support the Israeli and Palestinian leaders to return to meaningful negotiations."

     
  4. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    Strange that neither @Megaharrison nor @baconbits has commented on this.

    I have a pretty good idea what they might say, but I'd like to get it on record for future reference.
     
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  5. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    The Islamist group Hamas urged Palestinians on Thursday to abandon peace efforts and launch a new uprising against Israel in response to U.S. President Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as its capital.

    The Israeli military said it was reinforcing troops in the occupied West Bank, deploying several new army battalions and putting other forces on standby, describing the measures as part of its "readiness for possible developments".

    Protests so far have been scattered and largely non-violent.

    But dozens of Palestinians gathered at two points on the Gaza border fence with Israel and threw rocks at soldiers on the other side. Inside Gaza, thousands of Palestinians rallied, some chanting: "Death to America! Death to the fool Trump!" and burning tires.

    Trump reversed decades of U.S. policy on Wednesday by recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, imperiling Middle East peace efforts and upsetting the Arab world and Western allies alike.

    The status of Jerusalem - home to sites holy to the Muslim, Jewish and Christian religions - is one of the biggest obstacles to reaching a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.

    "We should call for and we should work on launching an intifada (Palestinian uprising) in the face of the Zionist enemy," Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said in a speech in Gaza.

    Haniyeh, elected the group's overall leader in May, urged Palestinians, Muslims and Arabs to hold rallies against the U.S decision on Friday, calling it a "day of rage".

    Naser Al-Qidwa, an aide to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and senior official in his Fatah party, urged Palestinians to stage protests but said they should be peaceful.

    Israel considers Jerusalem its eternal and indivisible capital. Palestinians want the capital of an independent state of theirs to be in the city's eastern sector, which Israel captured in the 1967 Middle East war and annexed in a move never recognized internationally.

    Trump announced his administration would begin a process of moving the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, a step expected to take years and one that his predecessors opted not to take to avoid inflaming tensions.

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who hailed Trump’s announcement as a "historic landmark", said on Thursday many countries would follow the U.S. move and that contacts were underway. He did not name the countries he was referring to.

    "President Trump has immortalized himself in the chronicles of our capital. His name will now be held aloft, alongside other names connected to the glorious history of Jerusalem and of our people," he said in a speech at Israel's Foreign Ministry.

    Other close Western allies of Washington, including France and Britain, have been critical of Trump's move. Pope Francis has called for Jerusalem's status quo to be respected, while China and Russia have also expressed concern.

    Trump's decision has raised doubts about his administration’s ability to follow through on a peace effort that Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, has led for months aimed at reviving long-stalled negotiations.

    The United Nations Security Council is likely to meet on Friday to discuss the U.S. decision, diplomats said.

    "STRATEGIC DANGER"

    Israel and the United States consider Hamas, which has fought three wars with Israel since 2007, a terrorist organization. Hamas does not recognize Israel's right to exist and its suicide bombings helped spearhead the last intifada, from 2000 to 2005.

    "We have given instruction to all Hamas members and to all its wings to be fully ready for any new instructions or orders that may be given to confront this strategic danger that threatens Jerusalem and threatens Palestine," Haniyeh said.

    "United Jerusalem is Arab and Muslim, and it is the capital of the state of Palestine, all of Palestine," he said, referring to territory including Israel as well as the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip and the Israeli-occupied West Bank.

    Haniyeh called on Western-backed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to withdraw from peacemaking with Israel and on Arabs to boycott the Trump administration.

    Abbas said on Wednesday the United States had abdicated its role as a mediator in peace efforts. Palestinian secular and Islamist factions have called for a general strike and rallies on Thursday.

    The international community does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over the whole of Jerusalem, believing its status should be resolved in negotiations. No other country has its embassy in Jerusalem.

    Trump's decision fulfils a campaign promise and will please Republican conservatives and evangelicals who make up a sizeable portion of his domestic support.

    He said his move was not intended to tip the scale in favor of Israel and that any deal involving the future of Jerusalem would have to be negotiated by the parties.

    The United States is asking Israel to temper its response to the announcement because Washington expects a backlash and is weighing the potential threat to U.S. facilities and people, according to a State Department document seen by Reuters.

    Protests broke out in areas of Jordan's capital, Amman, inhabited by Palestinian refugees, and several hundred protesters gathered outside the U.S. consulate in Istanbul on Wednesday following Trump's announcement.

    Palestinians switched off Christmas lights at Jesus' traditional birthplace in Bethlehem on Wednesday night to protest Trump's move.

     
  6. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    This totally wont further destabilize the region and increase terrorism absolutely not I am sure it will go swimmingly.
     
  7. Skaddix Well-Known Member

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    Well its why we support Israel but I don't think the average Christian Religious Conservative gives one flying fuck where the US Embassy in Israel is located.

    I suppose though the biggest risk is Saudi Arabia going off the deep end...its only a matter of time really the question is does Saudi Arabia still have a lot of oil and is oil still dominate energy source when they go over the deep end.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  8. San Juan Wolf They're even better when you're dead

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    But they were also blatantly antisemitic, as seen in the orchestrated trials against "anti socialist jewish centers" on the 1950's.

    I love how recognising a fact of some 70 years and the undisputable reality of Israel having a capital city, and that city being, and always having been, Jerusalem just can't be anything else but seedy and potentially criminally inspired.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  9. baconbits Moderator

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    Like the move. Of course it was supported by Congresses of the past overwhelmingly and it only recognizes reality.
     
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  10. Toby Detective Dollars Advisor

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    Everything is currently not daijobu

    If this escalates and nato is asked to step in then you're shit out of luck USA. Listen to your allies.
     
  11. hcheng02 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if Europe will have a choice to sit this out. More ME chaos means more refugees and they will try to head over to Europe.
     
  12. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    The most important foreign actors are Jordan and Egypt, because they actually border the two parts of Palestine and can give them direct support. Lebanon and Syria are also important because they border Israel (but not Palestine) and could attack it if they wanted to. So if worst comes to worst Israel would have to directly fight the armies of four Arab states, plus obviously militiamen from Palestine itself, which does not have a conventional army.

    The five of them could expect economic and maybe military support from the other 17 members of the Arab League, as well as moral and financial backing from the additional 32 states of the wider Organization of Islamic Cooperation.

     
  13. WT #for the watch

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    - the Muslim ban
    - uncalled for attacks on the London mayor
    - weak response to acts of terrorism committed by non Muslims in the US
    - promoting a right wing racist organisation in the UK against Muslims
    - recognising Jerusalem as Israels capital which is severely contested by other nations

    Trump has a strict anti Muslim agenda.

    The thing to fear is that he is an elected leader therefore does represent the views of the US majority.
     
  14. Roman Iron Fist

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    Considering he didn't win the popular vote....

    No he doesn't
     
  15. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    He represents the majority of states, which is what matters in the U.S.
     
  16. Darkmatter BETRAYAL!

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    I have a feeling that Harrison is in his room, furiously fapping to this out of his joy (like the guy on South Park).
    I mean, who could really blame the fella for getting this happy over a decision he would most likely support? And it's done by his Messiah as well!
     
  17. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    These were Trump's exact words btw:

     
  18. silverflash Schrödinger's Cat

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    The Arab world has been 0 for 4 when it comes to wars with Israel. I doubt any of them are willing to (or could survive politically) have a fifth loss.

    And even if they got their acts together and did pose a threat to them, Israel has something they lack: nuclear weapons.
     
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  19. hcheng02 Well-Known Member

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    The real issue is if they actually have the will to attack Israel and how well they can coordinate. As the Six Day War has shown, Israel can stomp all the armies that border them if they are uncoordinated.

    Syria and Lebanon don't really have conventional armies that pose a significant threat since its been ground down by years of brutal civil war. A few militias might do some isolated attacks, but it won't be an existential threat. The only army with anything like an air force or heavy artillery is Assad's army, and he won't want to toss them against Israel. Not only would Israel destroy them, but it would destroy his major advantage against the rebels. Israel doesn't even need to invade Syria to fuck Assad up. It can just destroy his air force and armor and then sit back as the rebels regroup and launch a counterattack (or the IDF can fund said counterattack.)

    This leaves Egypt and Jordan as the main threats. The problem is that Gaza is the main border to Egypt. Egypt has just underwent 2 revolutions, its economy is in the gutter, and its dealing with an insurgency in the Sinai which has just recently killed several hundred people. Said attack is likely from religious militias such as the Muslim Brotherhood which has ties to Hamas. Sisi considers the Muslim Brotherhood to be his mortal foe and might not be willing to lose IDF intel and military aid to strengthen Hamas, which is an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood and is the group running Gaza. At most, Egypt will turn a blind eye towards militants getting resources from Egypt and decrease military cooperation with Israel. I doubt that Egypt will shred their peace treaty with Israel over this though.

    Jordan is friendly towards the West and receives USA aid. It also has a peace treaty with Israel. However, it also has a huge Palestinian population, and they might compel the king to attack. It's doubtful though. Jordan's army is no match for Israel, and everybody knows it. Furthermore, if the Palestinians do rebel, Jordan can pull another Black September and expel them with US and Israeli aid.

    The other Arab countries are not united on opposition to Israel, at least to the point of waging open war with it. Many of them consider Iran to be the bigger threat. Saudi Arabia is the most prominent example. Many already have under the table relationships and alliances with Israel to counter Iran. There may be some protests and riots, but they've learned a few things about containing those from surviving the Arab Spring. Plus they know Trump has their back in keeping those people in line.
     
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  20. Deer Lord living for dank memes

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    The fuck are you talking about Shadow
    there's not going to be total war over this.

    Syria and Lebanon are a shit show right now, they cannot muster an attack on another nation, let alone one that curbstomps them at their prime.

    Egypt doesn't give a shit about the Palestinians, never did.
    Jordan is just puffing air because they have more Palestinians in their country than in the west bank.

    The worst we can see is more of the same, Terror attacks against civilians
    but it's not like Arabs really need an excuse for those, they do it whenever they feel like murdering some jews.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  21. Toby Detective Dollars Advisor

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    A single state solution is ideal but not mentioning that or a two state solution while doing this is pretty non constructive imo
     
  22. makeoutparadise I will have my revenge

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  23. Toby Detective Dollars Advisor

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    Some Palestinians were really keen on a two state solution and as part of that they didn't want Jerusalem to be capitol of Israel.

    Trumps decision puts the ball in the court of a single state solution but he said nothing about ending the conflict so I'm expecting an intifada.
     
  24. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    Just expanding on the "Worst Case Scenario", not saying it will actually happen.

    I'm also thinking One State might be the solution that makes everyone the least unhappy. But that would require the One State to be secular and democratic, i.e. not a "Jewish state" that discriminates against other religions/ethnicities. It comes down to if Israel can accept being downgraded from a "Jewish State" to "a state with lots of Jews in it".
     
  25. Toby Detective Dollars Advisor

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    They will also need to have two official languages. Hebrew and Arabic for certain. That's hopefully not as hard
     
  26. Deer Lord living for dank memes

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    There's a reason why Trump did not include the words 'East' or 'West' in his declaration.

    Under any partition plan proposed in the past the City would have parts going to both parties.
    So regardless of what "solution" might come to pass there will always be an Israeli controlled Jerusalem in some shape or form.
     
  27. Deer Lord living for dank memes

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    Hebrew and Arabic are the official Languages of Israel.
    Any government printed document, sign, etc/ typically has the text in Hebrew, then Arabic and typically English too.

    There's isn't any form of legal discrimination against Arabs here either. Don'y know where people get that idea.
     
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  28. silverflash Schrödinger's Cat

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    Ideally, a single Israel-Palestine should exist, either as a binational federation, or in replication of the Belgian model, with Jerusalem as a common but distinct capital.

    Edit: And maybe after they've learned to live together, they can work towards a fully-integrated unitary state.
     
  29. Deer Lord living for dank memes

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    I heard about a plan to break up the land into a switzerland-esq federation with each 'canton'-esq area running its own buissness in accordance to it's own demographics under a Jerusalem-based federal government.
    Which seemed to have people of both sides intrigued.
     
  30. hcheng02 Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to take seriously the idea of a one state solution between Jews and Arabs that have been at war for decades when based on what we've seen in the Arab Spring the Arabs have problems with a one state solution between Arabs who have lived together for the same amount of time.

    Israel won't accept that for the simple reason that Israel is meant to be a final refuge for the Jewish diaspora. No other country will accept the same large amounts of Jewish refugees without being a Jewish state. Other countries might accept some Jewish refugees at times of trouble, but in the end human nature dictates that there is a limit to said compassion without a deeper connection to said refugees. You need only look at how the Europeans are responding to the Syrian refugee crisis. At first there were calls of solidarity on human rights and dignity and outrage at pictures of dying and starving children. But eventually money ran tight, cultural differences began to come in to play and the people started resenting having to aid said refugees no matter how their leaders admonished them.
     

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