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Turkish troops rumored to be crossing into Iraq

Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by Sky is Over, Jun 6, 2007.

  1. Sky is Over Active Member

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    I see this two ways; if we allowed the turks to go up in the north, that'd give us more troops to stabalize the middle and sounthern regions, but on the bad side it'd destabalize the north; what're your views on this?
     
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  2. That NOS Guy The Pilot Who Lives by Pride

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    The North already is incredibly stable in relation to the rest of the country. we don't need the Turks to stablize anything. The question before the court is this. I can't help but feel this is similiar to Lebanon really. Is the Turkish military justified in crossing the border and attacking the PKK since the nation they're based out of can't effectively control it's own borders?

    While I sympathize with the Kurdish aspirations for independence this is clearly going too far when they allow their land to be used as a springboard for attacks on another soverign nation.
     
  3. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    turkey wants to join the EU with crap like this, give me a break turkey, learn how to respect ethnic minorities
     
  4. ApuLunas Frostmourne Hungers grs grs...

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    dude ethnic minorities and ethnic baby killers are not the same thing.

    also EU recognize PKK as a terrorist group.
     
  5. Vom Osten God save the Empire

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    Turkey will never join the EU, at least not in the forseeable future. It requires unanimous (sp?) agreement, and we all know France wont agree for fear of a wave of poor, turkish immigrants.
     
  6. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    i know PKK commits acts of terrorism but the whole existence of the PKK is because of turkeys abuse of the normal kurds
     
  7. That NOS Guy The Pilot Who Lives by Pride

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    Dude, the PKK is a serious terrorist group. They've been at war with the Turkish government since the 80s.

    If you want to attack Turkish moves against the Kurds look at language bans and such. Going after the PKK is hardly a disreputable action.
     
  8. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    i agree but i am just pointing out that the PKK is trying to establish a normal homeland for its people, if turkey didnt abuse them for decades PKK would not exist at all, now its not fair to blame PKK is it?
     
  9. ApuLunas Frostmourne Hungers grs grs...

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    its not like you know. the poorest parts of turkey are eastern turkish terrorities, actually kurdish terrorities are (southeast part of turkey) were the 3/7rd richest (now even more richer, if you could just see the cars in the kurdish villages (thanks to pkk's drug trade route)). the problems are kurds theirselves, they only know how to be a bandit (every kind of, theif, terrorist, interceptor...) and they dont want to any other job. they simply dont want to work but get a good life, if i really believed they ll leave my country if they had a homeland, i would have worked to found a homeland for kurds much more than every single kurd. also health and education are free in turkey (even if you dont work or never worked, goverment still pays for you). and i dont think you know pkk burnt our schools in southeast area, and killed the kurds who doesnt support them (including babies). are those baby killers your freedom fighters?
     
  10. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    i dont endorse any atrocities but you should try to analyze their motives from an impartial perspective. there has to be a reason pkk exists just like there are reasons for hamas, hezbollha, al queda, and george w bush. social factors create organizations... its beyond dispute that the kurds are historically AND PRESENTLY maltreated within turkey
     
  11. Toby <b>Detective Dollars</b>

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    Oh tut tut. How long have we known this? Right, since the beginning of the war. The only difference now is that we are seeing their advertisements in our media.

    Turkey is by far the United States strongest ally in the region and, for that reason, cannot be seen as likely to pull another silly move which will cause the ilk of Europe to look more agitated at them. Despite the brilliant political rhetoric of the Turkish president, what Ataturk's legacy contains is a restraint of the inward and backwardness of traditions becoming political solutions. So if the President wants his silly foreign secretary to become a president one day, he must learn that this sort of threat is a double-edged sword which can only distract them from his own secular agenda for a certain period of time.

    As pointed out earlier, the PKK is a serious guerilla force to be reckoned with, and I approve of Turkey's will to flex before it, although I think that such a right is no longer compatible with the situation in Iraq. We need to think differently now and act differently in accordance with how the national security agency of Iraq feels about the PKK. This is a case where the aim is to stabilise Iraq, not a chase for warlords like in Somalia. If Turkey wanted to join this war, it is too late for them now.
     
  12. That NOS Guy The Pilot Who Lives by Pride

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    The means by which the PKK came into existance are not in debate, their actions are. Yes, the PKK exists because of Turkish mistreatment. That said, they're still a terrorist organization much like the Stern Gang in the pre-Israel days and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

    I'm honestly curious how you arrived at the conclusion that if they have legitmate grivence they must be justified in their actions. Using this logic, it would've been fine for the Black Panthers to firebomb a KKK building.
     
  13. Daitsuki True Genius

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    LackingLack, just one thing ;

    where are you from ?
     
  14. ApuLunas Frostmourne Hungers grs grs...

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    so what dude? there are serial killers and children rapers too?!?! what are we gonna do huh? liberate them because we created them?

    and yeah, now we maltreat them, because we decided our policy was so soft against who doesnt want to work but live a good life, its not like old times "kurds and turks are brothers and pkk is just bad kurds". the reaction against kurds is much more individual now.

    first of all we are not joining any war. its your war not belong to us, we dont want any oil of iraq. we care about two things in iraq, first turkish ppls of iraq (3 million, live between kurds and arabs and mostly in Kerk?k) and pkk. and we ll decide when it is late or early.

    oh lackinglack, i am sure you never heard the turks that lives in iraq. you know what? your lovely homeland founders wannabes leader barzani said "america is so soft against terrorists, if they just let me do that job in iraq i can clear Kerk?k in 1 day", you know what he meant? he meant turks, cause we are the majority in Kerk?k. but because the turks are not colonialist's tool, nobody cares them in west but kurds.
     
  15. Toby <b>Detective Dollars</b>

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    Hey, Apulunas, whenever you respond to my posts I would gladly appreciate if you did actually understand them on beforehand. I am saying that it is only a threat, not Turkey actually joining a war. The military might want to, but only because the President is indulging some political rhetoric.
     
  16. ApuLunas Frostmourne Hungers grs grs...

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    i read all your post, but i only answered the part that i wanted to answer. just right now i am about to do.

    i feel very ashamed of our president, ppls talk about bush bla bla bla, but if they just know our president tayyip they would never whine about bush. and cheif in staff already stated "turkey army is not a bully, without assmebly's order we do nothing". turkey is not a banana republic, dont forget this after you leave iraq.

    oh, and more:
    the rumours are false, its stated by foreign affairs minister.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2007
  17. Edo Αρχίδια

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    Hezbollah is a resistance group...but it seems nowadays every resistance group is immediately labeled as a terrorist group!

    Turkey has no business entering past Iraqi boarders, imo it is just an excuse to enter Iraq.

    In fact if it were not for the US, Turkey would have entered Iraq months ago!
     
  18. That NOS Guy The Pilot Who Lives by Pride

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    So .... are the PKK a "resistance group" then? Since they're actually fighting for their ancestral homeland these days.

    So why pray tell are the Turkish invovled now? They have a legitmate pressing concern to chase after terrorists across the border because that Iraq is being used as a springboard for attacks on Turkey.
     
  19. Edo Αρχίδια

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    I didn't say that the PKK are not a terrorist group....they are a resistance group but their tactics have led them to become a terrorist group too.

    Hezbollah on the other hand has always had miltary targets as their goal.

    That is true....I am only stating what I believe (my opinion) and that is, that Turkey wanted to enter Northern Iraq since the beginning of the war and has tried many time to do so but was stopped by the USA....again this is how I see it.
     
  20. That NOS Guy The Pilot Who Lives by Pride

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    Don't be stupid. If they only had military targets in mind they wouldn't be attacking cities with dumbfire rockets. Clearly military organizations clearly delinate themselves from the populace.

    No shit Turkey wanted to enter Northern Iraq, they've done so multiple times in the past to prevent attacks on their soil. This is hardly an event without historical precedent. You've yet to demonstrate why they don't have a valid motive in taking out cross-border operations against an organization that is best described as terrorist.

    The funny thing is we can switch the words "Turkey" with "Israel" and "PKK" with "Hezbollah" and it all sounds so fimiliar.
     
  21. Edo Αρχίδια

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    So by your definition the Isreali army is a terrorist groups....Thanks that what I think too...glad we agree.

    They don't cause they are entering another country...but it seems after the USA's actions all over the world, that doesn't count for anything anymore!

    And as I said before, that was juts my opinion, I don't need to demonstrate anything.

    Not really!
     
  22. That NOS Guy The Pilot Who Lives by Pride

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    ...what? You're seven kinds of stupid boy.

    Hitting a place where weapons are stored with a JDAM somehwere in Beirut != Firing Katsuyhas and completely unguided artillery at Haifa.

    The cause however is legitmate. What should the Turks do, sit and wait for the PKK to attack them while having safe haven in Northern Iraq. Nonewithstanding that this was confirmed to be a rumor, the actions are in fact defensible from a military and civil point of view.

    Yes you do asshole. You can't just hide behind "it's just my opinion!" Unless of course you're admitting your opinions are not backed up by demonstrable facts and logic. In which case, you only showcase your stupidity.

    A country crossing into B country which has a government incapable of controlling it's own borders and allowing terrorists safe haven to conduct operations against A. Yep, pretty similiar.

    Then again, I'm dealing with someone with no basis in reality os let the shouting much of "NO U!" begin, I scarcely think it will lead anywhere except a chance for me to mock your severe lack of critical thinking.
     
  23. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    yes i think we pretty much all agree that for turkey to invade northern iraq is 100% senseless right now given the situation and how chaotic it already is. and yes, the USA should have realzied this would have happened before it invaded. however i still think that its turkey's fault the kurds are so angry, this is a reaction to historical oppression, just like in lebanon with hezbollah or palestine and hamas. i am not making excuses for atrocities as i said earlier, i wish there were none, but i do recognize that you cannot just blame the organziation PKK and be done withit, you need to have turkey reform itself and be much fairer if you want to really reduce influence of a radical group like PKK in the long-term, PEACEFULLY. does anyone think turkey attacking PKK is going to reduce long term kurdish antagonisms???
     
  24. ApuLunas Frostmourne Hungers grs grs...

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    actually pkk terror was about to stop. from 2001 till late 2006 nothing serious happened (in 2001 their head Abdullah ?calan "Apo" was captured, and no death till late 2006). but fighting against terrorism isnt only done by army. our cabinet's false policy in this short while caused pkk gather his strenght again. also pkk changed his fighting tactics, now they dont engage with army but uses land mines (brand news, made in belgium) and a4 or c4 class explosives.
     
  25. Edo Αρχίδια

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    Sure..sure...whatever you say boy!

    They are entering another country's ground, they have no right to, they can fortify their borders and deal with the issue inside their country, and ask from whoever is responsible in Iraq *cough* USA*cough* to deal with the problem in Iraq.

    But I wouldn't expect you to understand this seeing your country's action in the rest of the world, therefore there isn't really a point discussing this with you!

    lol...that's very mature....you can swear as much as you like, I am not biting...


    again....lol.....they are not similar cause one is a terrorist group the other isn't....look who is talking about critical thinking...please your remarks are cracking me up...
     
  26. ApuLunas Frostmourne Hungers grs grs...

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    first of all we have the right, we made the deal in 1943 with iraq, if a threats occurs in north iraq against turkey we can enter iraq for 75 kms after border. this right was used lots of times.

    and secondly, if a country cant handle a bunch of terroist (3500 is given number) in its terrority what kind of country it is then? what makes a country a real country? they shall not expect to be respected to its borders anyway.
     
  27. That NOS Guy The Pilot Who Lives by Pride

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    So you don't know the difference between operations of a conventional military forced into urban combat and that of an terrorist group expressly attacking civilian targets? Well, no suprise there. Concession accepted.

    Congrats, you've just called invading, no matter how justified, morally wrong.

    You're effectively blaming the victim here. Are scantily clad women to blame for rape now? Turkey shouldn't have to secure it's borders, and it's moving to secure it's borders by moving against the PKK in Iraq. The best defense is a good offense as it were. Fact is Turkey has been in Iraq multiple times before the US invasion in pursuit of the PKK.

    Let's be real, the US cannot do the job even if requested. They simply don't have the manpower or resources neccessary for the job required. What does that leave us with? Let the Turks handle the issue.

    Of course, this was all a rumor, but the idea and theory behind Turkish intervention in Northern Iraq is sound.

    I don't expect you to "bite" shit. I'm just calling a tool a tool here.

    What, the other isn't a terrorist group because you like it's goals? How petty.

    You wouldn't happen to have the name of the treaty would you?
     
  28. Kayo ?

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    For the first time of my life I agree with That NOS Guy, he brought up some very good points. Everyday I hear about how Turkish troops/villagers get's attacked by PKK forces. I don't know how in the hell you can blame Turkey like LackingLack does for PKK's acts. They are a terrorist organization, not a damn resistance force, do you even know what kind of methods they use?
    Anyway I think it's about time Turkey get's into Northern Iraq to stabilize the area over there.

    EDIT: Haha funny seeing that Edo comes from Greece, no wonder he doesn't think Turkey does the right thing.
     
  29. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    i just think that kurds are the underdog here and we need to rmeember that first they killed by hussein and now back to killed by turkey again, not good situation for kuds, we give them benefit of the doubt.
     
  30. Edo Αρχίδια

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    Do you even know what a resistance group is??!! I doubt it.

    And what Israel has done to Lebanon is hardly called conventional military forced into urban combat They've destructed the whole country.

    and it seems you haven't heard of the massacres and the number of civilians killed in Lebanon...no wonder you are biased to begin with...as I said before, wouldn't expect to you to understand the difference.

    Stupid example from a stupid person....try harder!


    Every country should secure it's borders, but they don't have to do it entering another country......you are so thick that you don't even understand what I am saying....in simple words...although Turkey's entrance is justified due to the fucked up situation in Iraq (thanks to the US), I don't believe Turkey should enter Iraq....it is my personal believe that Turkey's entrance has something to do with more that just fight the PKK...(this is just a belief, not a fact)


    again lol.....grow up please, you are not even worth it.


    lol, look who's talking...Mr. Biased NO. 1 of NF.
    (I agree with the PKK's goal, but still I consider them a terrorist group)


    and to the person who neg repped me, have the guts to sign your name next time, coward.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2007
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