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Uchiha Clan Kyuubi vs Suzaku

Discussion in 'Naruto Theories' started by Turrin, Oct 15, 2006.

  1. Turrin

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    Alright so i thought up this theory...based on alot of aspect of the manga. First lets look at what we know about the uchiha clan as a whole....

    1.The uchiha clan's history is immersed in reverance and myth for a legendary diety...some believe this to be the tengu and some believe it to be suzaku(for sake of argument we are going to say the Suzaku is infact what is shown at the neko shrine, wall paintings) There is also alot of evidance for this...if you already haven't read a million theories about this already...i suggest you read Grave's

    2.The uchiha clan has hidden some kind of secret in the neko shrine..aka a secret purpose of the uchiha clan and what they are destined to do.

    3.The Uchiha clan is cursed according to kyuubi...and holds a power even more evil then his own

    Now lets look at what we know about itachi and sasuke's relationship

    1.Itachi is obbessed with reaching the pinnacle of the uchiha clans power...which has somthing to do with activating and using the MS. He is trying to become the strongest of all the uchiha...and this is his excuse as to why he killed the clan because he want to "test his compacity" and "it was neccessary"

    2. We know that itachi left sasuke alive...as a person to test his own power...as well as wanting sasuke to achieve the same power he has

    3.We know the sharingan has the abilty to converse and surpress the chakra of bijuu

    4. we know that for some reason...itachi after severing all the bonds he once had joined akatsuki and another thing to note is that his ring symbolizes suzaku the guardain of the east.


    Now lets put all these things together and we have a very nice theory as to why sasuke killed the clan, what he expects from sasuke, etc... Alright here's my theory...the uchiha clan have developed the sharingan(from the byakugan) as a side effect of a bijuu being sealed in there bloodline itself...aka the Suzaku phionix has been sealed inside the collective bloodline of the uchiha clan. I believe this to have come to pass when the phionix had a rilvary with the kyuubi and the hyuuga sighned a contract that in exchange for the phionix's power they would seal the kyuubi...thus this is the secret goal of the uchiha clan to seal the kyuubi. However for this they need the MS...and i think there where amny incidents throughtout the past where the uchiha clan has sealed the kyuubi this is why the kyuubi rembers mandara so well. Also the only way to relize the power of the phionix and the power to seal the kyuubi...is by becoming the current strongest member of the clan, however that person must also be stronger then the potentaill strenght of all the members in the clan.

    Thus the AL who seeks the bijuu found out that in-order to seal the suzaku bijuu in the statue he would have to furfill the re-quirements to awaken it aka get an uchicha to prove that he is the strongest of the clan. Thus he sout out itachi who had proven himself to be the genious of the uchiha clan but unfortunatly the phionix had not manifested itself in uchiha itachi because there was still another person in the clan with potentaill enough to surpass itachi. Thus the Akatsuki leader order itachi to kill shishui(who he believed to have the greatest potentaill if not itachi) as itachi's entrance exam to akatsuki. However again the phionix did not materalize itself within itachi...therefore the AL ordered itachi to kill the whole of his clan therefore if itachi was the only one left he would by pass the rule of the strongest uchiha. This is what itachi did he killed all the members of the clan...hoping that before he got to his family or brother the phionix would materialize...eventually he had no choice but to kill his parents but when he got to sasuke he couldn't do it...so instead he insured that sasuke would become stronger then him and kill him so he would become the strongest of the uchiha clan by default

    Thus this is why itachi joined akatsuki...to have them remove the phionix and to chase after his ultimate goal the kyuubi. This is also why he said he had plenty of time to capture the kyuubi, why it would be troublesome if orochimaru captured sasuske, why itachi is constantly pushing sasuke to become stronger, why itachi's ring is shu
     
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  2. Janglemouse

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    would this theory in turn support that Yondy, who sealed the kyubbi in Naruto was an Uchiha? Furthermore, would this theory also support that blue hair or AL is a fellow Uchiha? or is someone else like tobi, an uchiha? i want to hear your thoughts for sure, any way, rep up.
     
  3. Turrin

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    right now i think that only uchiha that itachi knows about are himself and sasuke. Yondaime is not an uchiha but its very probable that the member of his team with black hair could also have been an uchiha that was going to seal the kyuubi after achieving the pinnacle by killing yondaime and mastering the MS...but yondaime killed her/him and sealed the kyuubi in his/her place. Its also probable that the same thing happened with shodai and the other valley of the end statue. As for tobi and the un-named member being an uchiha mabye but the reader isn't supppose to know about it nor do i think itachi knows...possibly even the AL
     
  4. Link

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    Your theory has too many holes, and leaps.
    :notrust
     
  5. Shinji

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    So you don't think the third MS user that Itachi was talking about is not an Uchiha, because when he states to sasake " If you can activate it, the number of people including me , who can use the MS will be three"(episode131). I always felt that Itachi felt that Itachi is talking about another Uchiha,and as you said he is obsessed of getting stronger and it has to do with MS, which I totally agree on. I don't feel Itachi is talking about Kakashi as the third MS, like some people say, because Itachi was suprised on how he can use the Sharingan well, since he is not an Uchiha, and thats well after Itachi said those things to sasake, so that takes out the only non-Uchiha he has sharingan that we know so far. Because I doubt that Itachi would feel Kakashi capable of attaining MS, and even killing his own friend, but Kakashi did obtain MS, but makes him tire easy. I think Itachi definitly has to know the third MS and it should definitly be an Uchiha. But what do you think?
     
  6. Janglemouse

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    well if kakashi wants to attain MS, i hope his best friend is Gai-Sesai (good guy thumbs up-tooth flash)
     
  7. Turrin

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    there are alot of translations on this very crucail quote...many say "the amount of people to obtain the MS will be three" meaning that the amount of people who have ever obtained the MS is three. Which means the third MS user was the first to obtain it and is more then likely dead. If there is in-fact a third MS users that was living...he does not have to be an uchiha he could be some one able to copy bloodlines but i think the most likely scenario is that the uchiha itachi is refering to is the first person to obtain the MS(more then likely mandara)
     
  8. Shinji

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    Your so right Turrin there are alot of translations of this quote, but it is good to get the translations from trustworthy sites, i got this from narutofan.com the manga downloads, this from chapter 225 pg. 4 "Including myself there will be three people who can handle the magenkyo sharingan". I'm taking that the third MS he is talking about is still alive.
    I'm taking Yashas theory in account to this that Madara is by now in the current manga dead, that he had is fight with Shodaime in that valley do not remember what it is called. Remember the statue yasha pointed out Sasake stood on Madaras, while naruto on Yondaime. But this only corresponds to if yashas theory is true but their are a lot of facts in the manga that support this.
    I think Itachi is trying to gain more power and it has to do with 3 MS's and possibly the kyuubi, that might be a reason why he is in Akatsuki.
    But maybe Itachi is interpreting it as 3 to ever posess it, making Madara the first possessor of MS. But now Kakashi possess MS so if saske gets it be 4 ever to posses it.
     
  9. Turrin

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    There are essentally three interpretations that are all from reasonable and reliable sources
    1."there are three who will have obtained the MS" meaning in the past and future

    2."there are three who can use the MS currently" meaning there are two and sasuke would be the third

    3."there will be three with the potentaill" meaning that there are currently two with the potentaill to activate and use the MS and sasuke would be the third if he increases his strength

    Personally i really think that its the first one and that mandara was the other person to have obtained the MS(who may or may not have been the person fighting at the valley of the end). While i don't think its the second one...because we really don't know about any other potentaill uchicha...mabye tobi(but itachi wouldn't have know about tobi before because tobi was not part of the organization). If its the third one then itachi may have been refering to kakashi who also had the sharingan and was only surprized because although he considered the fact that kakashi could have the potentaill he never thought it was possible for an non uchiha to obtain the MS w/o the blood line itself

    my biggest problem with yasha's theory about tengu...is that it really doesn't make all that much sense...that the uchiha would have somthing to do with tengu...who may or may not exsist as reall entities in the naruto world(aka just monliths in the fire temple)...while suzaku has a very high chance of being a bijuu considering the genbu another member of the four guardians is also a bijuu

    This part of yasha's theory really doesn't make sense etheir as well as yours because why would itachi have sasuke want to kill him if he need 3 MS users to unlock the secret because obviously he would then kill itachi making there only two again...so i really don't think this is it. Rather it most deffinatly has to do with some one becoming the strongest in the clan or reaching the pinnacle of the clan
     
  10. rorykage

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    this is an interesting theory, with some interesting backup (though i'm not familiar with this "suzaku" part).

    i've been unclear on this issue as well, i have different translations with subtle differences that can change the whole dynamic of the situation.

    regarding whether or not there is another living MS user, i personally think that there may be another uchiha survivor (more accurately, an uchiha outcast), one who put ideas into itachi's head, and told itachi the secret of gaining the MS, maybe the one who wrote the documents hidden in the shrine. i think that itachi may be working under the influence of this other uchiha, and that they are just akatsuki to help them attain whatever sharingan/kyuubi related goal they are after. (strictly speculation)

    my thory isn't very full formed just yet, but it's something to consider.
     
  11. Shinji

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    You make a good point, the way i look at this he did so sasake would get the need and motivation to obtain MS, because he probally thought Sasake would not kill his best friend without a given incentive, like ability to kill Itachi with MS, that is the way i look at it. But if you look at it like 2 MS's that are alive it would trump one MS to submission. But maybe you are right just to test his own strength and claim he is the greatest Uchiha.
    I guess this is what makes Naruto so great are alot of not given facts that make reader theorize and wonder. Like the third MS. It can be interpeted in so many ways or maybe it is over analyzing lol.
     
  12. Turrin

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    For anyone not familiar with the theory of suzaku and graves theory check out this thread
    [Animanda] Death Note - 02 [08EC888A].avi
    and Grave's orginall one

    [Animanda] Death Note - 02 [08EC888A].avi

    and for a little more on suzaku check my bijuu directory
    [Animanda] Death Note - 02 [08EC888A].avi

    Although i agree with grave on some things...ourt theories differ in some key ways
    1.Grave believes that the suzaku has already manifested itself in sasuke...i do not believe this to be the case...i think it still lies in wait for the strongest uchiha of the clan currently to emerge which is of course to be decieded between sasuke and itachi

    2.Grave believes the history of the clan to be just about suzaku...but i believe it also has to do with sealing and defeating the kyuubi/the kyuubi's host

    3.Also we differ on some of the reasoning for the uchiha clan massacre, itachi joining akatsuki, etc... just a few other things

    but grave's theories show alot of why the uchiha clan is connected to the suzaku

    could be but i doubt that itachi...knows him/her, i think if there is another uchicha then itachi does not know about him or her because of the fact that i believe strongly in this theory and it would kind of screw it over a little bit if thats was the case

    Two ms could subdue one but that raises the question of if itachi made him hate...him sasuke would never help itachi and never activate the MS for him so that makes no sense still....I really think that itachi only did it so that sasuke would kill him and become the strongest by default thus relizing the suzaku's power within him instead of itachi

    Also this thread is more a prototype for a longer one i am planing on writiung about the uchiha clan that more detailed and shows some very convincing connections
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2006
  13. rorykage

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    thanks for posting thos links.

    though i'm still not enitrely convinced of this entire theroy, i can definitely get on aboard with the the idea of the 4 guardians as bijuu.

    additionally: suzaku awaiting awkening within sasuke could be reason why the unknown akatsuki has been frustrated trying to find his/her jinchuuriki.
     
  14. Shinji

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    Yeah that true sasake did have a chance to get MS during the first fight with Naruto and as he leaves they flashback Itachi saying "your closest friend you must kill him" then sasake says "i will not do as you say, i will surpass you my own way, definitely" So you can already take at as a backfire on Itachi.
    I'm not really willing to go and say that Itachi just wants to claim being the strongest Uchiha, i believe Itachi wants to be the strongest ninja ever. maybe he does wish to unlock suzaku's power, but that conflict with him being stronger than kyuubi since in terms of jappanese mythology suzuku is the seven tailed phoenix. But possibly suzaku combined with MS can outmatch the kyuubi. But i feel Yashas Tengu theory is more plausible, i think the scroll that says tengu in sasakes room is proof enough also you can see the merging of tengu and Uchiha in the shrine that Itachi told sasake to look.
    But he truly know other than Kishi but you make many valid points turrin, and i am sorry if i am being to over analytical.
     
  15. Turrin

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    yes this is very likely...that the unkown member can't find her bijuu because it hasn't been awakened yet inside the strongest uchiha

    Yes i believe that kyuubi > Susaku and thats why susaku made this deal with the hyuuga clan in the first place. We recieved a major hint at this when dedaria states that jin can become much stronger then the bijuu alone. Which makes sense because its the Hosts power + the Bijuu's power > Bijuu's power alone. Thus i think that suzaku intend for himself to grow in power by only being relized in the strongest uchicha currently meaning that the strongest uchich would obtain a power that could almost rivial the kyuubi's on his/her own aka the level of power even higher then the one itachi obtained and then throw in the suzaku into that and you have a force more then capable of defeating even the kyuubi

    As for Yasha's theory about the tengu...well for one we can't tell what the picture on the shrine are...some think they are tengu some think they are suzaku its unclear...the scroll you talk about i haven't seen that before...i will read yasha's theory again. Regardless there is alot proof of suzaku influencing the uchich clan i am going to post a fool theory about it latter with all the evidance...but check out my links for now
     
  16. Lunchin15

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    What? Get your shit straight.



    All he said was that Sasuke had chakra that was more evil than his own... nothing whatsoever about power. Stop trying to blow things up to support your shit theories.
     
  17. Turrin

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    holy shit your dumb...wow i mean its not even funny. This is what your translation says, "Eyes with such power and chakra even more sinister then my own"

    Also i have to say i have a different translation then you...but even your says power so i would shut up now if i was you
     
  18. Lunchin15

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    Hahaha.... you hate to be wrong but you keep putting yourself in these situations where you're well, umm... wrong! He says Sasuke has powerful eyes, not that he has eyes more powerful than himself, big difference.

    Example:
    At the Gym:

    *some guy benches 200lbs.
    Me:"Wow!, that dude is pretty strong!"
    *I go over and lift 250lbs.

    END

    So because I said he was strong, he is now stronger than myself???
     
  19. Turrin

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    umm you really are retarded...jesus..he says power right there. Soooo i really don't know how to argue with some one who is so blatantly wrong. When the sentance says power and chakra even more sinister then my own...it means both aka why the is an and there. But believe what you want...
     
  20. Lunchin15

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    Ok, you ready?
    Here is the break down for you:

    1.)"Eyes with such power"
    Meaning: "You gots some powerful eyes there guy"

    2.)"and"
    Meaning:1. (used to connect grammatically coordinate words, phrases, or clauses) along or together with; as well as; in addition to; besides; also; moreover: pens and pencils.
    2. added to; plus: 2 and 2 are 4.
    3. use: ?He read for an hour and went to bed.?

    3.) "chakra even more sinister then my own!"
    Meaning: "damn dude, you gots some evil chakra? even more evils than my shit!"

    4.)"Eyes with such power and chakra even more sinister then my own!"
    Meaning: ?You gots some powerful eyes there guy AND (plus/on top of/connecting phrases) damn dude, you gots some evil chakra? even more evils than my shit!"
     
  21. Turrin

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    I will say this one last time the kyuubi was talking about sasuke's eyes in there entirity saying

    Eyes with such power and chakra more sinister then my own. This means that within sasuke's eyes is power and chakra more evil then kyuubi's. If we go by your deffinition which says powerfull eyes and chakra even more evil then my own...it would mean that sasuke's own chakra(not the sharingan's chakra) was more evil in intent then the kyuubi's which i doubt that sasuke is more evil then the kyuubi as of now in the seris.

    Also this is further supported by the fact that the kyuubi is talking about the sharingan the whole entire time before that. Thats all i will say on the subject i am done argueing somthing thats blatantly obivous with you
     
  22. DeepThought

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    Way to create a thread to support your other theory.
     
  23. Turrin

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    i made this thread first...lolol
     
  24. DeepThought

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    Not a fact... this is only based on theories in the forum.
    uh huh
    uh huh
    Correct.. (spelled "capacity")
    yep
    I read that chapter
    Guardian of the South.
    I'm sorry WHAT?
     
  25. Turrin

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    dude what does that have to do with the fact that i made this thread first...i then made the other one with a huge amount of more evidance in it...i even posted in one of my post on this thread that this thread was only a pro-type for my other more extensive thread that i was going to post. I didn't think i would finish the other one so fast, but i got time and did. Its not like i am supporting my own theories just that i posted another version of this with more information two days latter
     
  26. Lunchin15

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    Take an English class idiot. If you did?t understand my breakdown of that sentence, then you?re retarded.

    Oh yeah, and since when have eyes had their own chakra? The sharingan uses Sasuke's chakra... and you are wrong.






    P.S. The AL has red/orange hair and is not Yondaime.
     
  27. Grrblt

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    Regrettably, I must agree with Turrin here and say that the quote is ambiguous. It could be either "you have power, and you also have chakra that is more cursed than me" or "you have power and chakra that both are more cursed than me".

    True.
     
  28. Lunchin15

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    I understand where you're coming from but the word "such" before ?power? gives that portion of the sentence it's own life make it separate from the part that comes after ?and.?

    "Eyes with such power and charka more sinister then my own."
    "Eyes with power and charka more sinister then my own."

    You see the difference?
     
  29. Turrin

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    Luchin the kyuubi was talking about the sharingan the whole entire time before...that and after that comparing his eyes to madara's. The whole time he was talking exclusively about sasuke's sharingan, which makes the most sense becuase he was using the sharingan to invade the kyuubi seal in the first place. Eyes can have there own type of chakra...its like the curse seal..which draws on sasuke's power but when he uses the curse seal it changes his charka into somthing extremely evil so yes the sharingan's chakra can be different from sasuke's own chakra.

    Aside from that it makes no sense that sasuke's chakra would be more evil then the kyuubi's it really doesn.t while the sharingans could be
     
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