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Underrated Sequels?

Discussion in 'Konoha Theatre' started by MartialHorror, Oct 4, 2018.

  1. MartialHorror The Convicted Cinephile!

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    This thread was inspired by the "Creed II" thread, where I got some pushback for favoring "Rocky 5" over "Rocky 4". It made me wonder...what are some of the more unfairly maligned sequels out there? What do you think are the underrated ones? I guess remakes can count too. "Rocky 5" won't make my listing because I'm not entirely sure it would hold up if I revisited it. Maybe nostalgia was talking, or maybe I was simply a bit too pleasantly surprised by how much I didn't hate it. Either way, it's been too long since I've seen it the one time, so I won't bother defending it.

    But as to my real list.

    1) Friday the 13th part 5: Even the most passionate fans cannot dispute that this film has some serious flaws and the creative decisions that lead to its development presumably were inspired during some deranged drug binge...But I've always felt the hate it received was a little too harsh, as even if 'the twist' was f@cking retarded, it boasts some of the most mean spirited kills of the franchise and at the time, even had the highest body count...and isn't that what we watch these movies for?

    2) Tremors 2: There are two groups of people, those who only love the original film and those who love the franchise. The former view "Tremors 2" as an inferior sequel, which to be fair, is true...But I am surprised that fans of the franchise usually favor the latter sequels over this, presumably due to Burt being the protagonist. I've always thought "Tremors 2" was a lot of fun, capturing a lot of the charm of the original, even if...yes...it's inferior.

    3) Beverly Hills Cop III: Admittedly, it's not that I think this is anything special as much as...well, I didn't think the first two were all that special either. I thought they were good action-comedies, whereas I thought this was merely an OK action-comedy. Yet most seem to think the movie sucked.

    4) The Grandfather Part III: I REALLY don't understand the hatred surrounding this movie, other than the fact it's not a classic. It has its flaws, but I think the only critical problem it has is...it's not not particularly memorable. The first two films have all sorts of quotable lines, iconic moments and performances that became cultural phenomenons. This one doesn't, but I still think it's a solid flick.

    5) The Howling 5: I understand why it's disliked...as it's a werewolf movie with very little werewolf action...But I think it functions well as an Agatha Christie-styled murder mystery that takes place in a f@cking castle. I think it's the best of the sequels.

    QUESTIONABLE ENTRIES

    Sometimes a movie was panned upon release, but audiences grew warmer towards it over time.

    - Psycho 2: This movie doesn't have a poor reception. It received mixed reviews and is mostly forgotten today, but I view this as the perfect sequel. It has so much of what the original has, but also does its own thing and I was taken aback by how much I loved this.

    - Predator 2: Do people even hate this movie anymore? Most view it as a worthy sequel, even if most agree that it's not on par with the original.

    - Alien 3: People hated it upon release, but after "Alien: Resurrection" and the release of a superior Producers cut, it is at least considered better than what was to come.

    -Jaws 3: This is a tricky one because I don't think it's very good, yet I like it anyway because I sort of grew up with it. It also plays nicely into claustrophobic fears, but I consider it questionable because it still suffers from a bit of badness.

    - Puppet Master Vs Demonic Toys: This movie is a piece of shit, but somehow...some way...it's still vastly superior than most of the Puppet Master sequels. Yet "fans" of the franchise...because they apparently exist...usually rank this as 'the worst'. I like to pretend they have not seen "Puppet Master X: Legacy"...or "Curse of the Puppet Master"...or "Retro Puppet Master"...

    I didn't count "The Predator" even though I enjoyed it because I also feel like it deserved a lot of its mauling. I also didn't count "The Last Jedi" because I understand its mixed reception.
     
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  2. Sennin of Hardwork Tales to Astonish Moderator

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    I thought that Jack Reacher 2 was a much better movie than the first one.
     
  3. Mider Transylvania VM Zombie

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    The dialogue sucks, Al Pacino's voice was already damaged, there was no need to make it (16 years after the second one), Sofia Coppola can't act, the story was weak, it needlessly killed off characters, and it was just boring.
     
  4. EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! DON'T LOSE YOUR WAY!!!

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    I thought the movie was fine, but . . . . The one thing that truly irked me about Godfather 3 was how Connie stayed by Michael's side and bought into the lies about Fredo's murder. Like, wtf? You're the one who saw through Carlo's murder in the first movie.

    -
     
  5. MartialHorror The Convicted Cinephile!

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    Is Pacino's voice being damaged a serious problem? I thought it made him sound more hardened and badass, which was more fitting for the role at that time. I do agree about Sofia Coppola though.

    That's true. I wonder what the movie would be like if Coppola got to make the movie as he initially envisioned. He said he always viewed it as an epilogue, not intended to be on par with the first two movies, but the studio apparently demanded an epic that can hold its own against the first two. I don't know how he could've pulled that off...as I'm not even sure what that actually means...But maybe it would've deflated a lot of the comparisons.

    I do find it amusing that Coppola only did any of these movies for the money, not for the art, but the first two garnered more acclaim that any of his more artistically driven projects. I prefer "Apocalypse Now" to both of them though...and I'm one of the few people who thinks "The Godfather (1)" is superior to its sequel, apparently.
     
  6. ane Advisor

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    I still enjoyed the movie even though Sophia Coppola was plain bad. I wish she would have been replaced when it was obvious she was no good, nepotism or not.
     
  7. Mider Transylvania VM Zombie

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    Sofia*
     
  8. ane Advisor

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    Thanks ~
     
  9. MartialHorror The Convicted Cinephile!

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    If memory serves, she only got the role because the intended casting choice backed out at the last moment.
     
  10. Uncle Acid Well-Known Member

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    Halloween III: Season of the Witch. Fantastic film that is mainly hated because it's so different than the rest. Amazing film!
     
  11. MartialHorror The Convicted Cinephile!

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    A mild variation...one that I might recant if I revisit the movie again...as good as "Police Story" is, I think I prefer "First Strike", which is actually supposed to be "Police Story 4". But that might be the nostalgia talking. For some reason, I favor those international-themed Jackie Chan flicks from the 90's more than any other phase of his career.

    Also, if "Chinese Zodiac" is actually "Armor of God 3", then I'd consider that underrated as well. It's obviously not Jackie's best work, but I think it captures the spirit of those films.

    Finally, I MIGHT defend "Seed of Chucky". At the absolute least, I thought it was amusing when I saw it...what wasn't amusing was being alone in that theater and getting weird stares from the employees scouting said theater.

    I never liked "Halloween 3", but I do think it's underrated to an extent. There have been worse movies within the franchise, starring Michael Myers, so when people continue to harp on it for that reason, I grow irritable.
     
  12. DemonDragonJ He who dances with death

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    The reason for that is because after the second film, the studio decided that each new film would be a different story that related to Halloween (the holiday), but, since the film performed so poorly, they abandoned that idea and returned to Michael Myers being the villain of every film.
     
  13. Uncle Acid Well-Known Member

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    Wasn't it Carpenter himself, alongside Carpenter associated writer/producer Debra Hill, who decided that it had potential as an anthology series?

    Anyway, this is old news. We all know this. My point was simply that I think it's one hell of an underrated film, and that I am sure it would've gained a much better response had it been released as Season of the Witch with no connection to Halloween in anyway.

    But it's gained a status as a massive cult film, and that is well-deserved IMO.



    I'll also add two more films here:

    The Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2
    Again, very different from the first film but I do believe that Tobe Hooper did the right thing when he decided to make it into a very different film from the first one. Again the critical response has been so-so, but its cult-status is very much deserved IMO.
     
  14. ~VK~ The King

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    Godfather 3 should have been a Tom vs Michael feud for the family tbh
     
  15. Ishmael I'd rather you hadn't seen that.

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    Same. It had more action imo, I enjoyed the plot a bit more as well.

    Another movie I'd like to point out is the purge 2, 1 was okay, 3 sucked, not going to see the newest one. But 2, this one was better, we got to see what the outside world was like and just how the purge affected others.
     
  16. Ishmael I'd rather you hadn't seen that.

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    Also no... season of the witch sucked. There's no if ands or buts, only thing I'd put over season of the witch is Rob zombies films for the franchise.
     
  17. MartialHorror The Convicted Cinephile!

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    Yes on Carpenter.

    I need to see "Texas Chainsaw 2" again. I remember not caring for it when I first saw it, but I was also thrown off guard by how different it was at the time, so I'd probably like it a lot more now.

    Er, isn't "Purge 2" the most liked amongst the Purge films?
     
  18. Ishmael I'd rather you hadn't seen that.

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    Is it? I've never heard much surrounding 2, if so than I'm glad it is, it's easily the best written out of all the others.
     
  19. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    The Matrix Reloaded.

    At the time I wasn't all that impressed with the first Matrix, because I felt I'd seen it all before in comic books and other sci-fi films/tv shows.

    So I thought Reloaded had some fresh and interesting world-building, like the history of the Matrix being cyclical, there being rouge programs, and Smith coming out into the real world. And the highway chase has got to be one of the best action scenes of all time, no? Honestly don't get why people hate this movie. :hm

    Unfortunately all the cool things set up in Reloaded had disappointing or no payoff in Revolutions. That move seems to have been constructed entirely around the Battle of Zion, and everything else that happens is just slapped together to fill the running time.

    E.g. they incapacitate Neo at the end of Reloaded (implying that he's maybe ascended to a "realer" world and that the Real World is just another Matrix), only to have him come back instantly in the first act of Revolutions after sitting at a subway stop for a while. Then what was the point of having him gone to begin with??? As far as I recall his brief absence does nothing to advance the plot; all the characters end up back exactly where they were before he went away.
     
  20. MartialHorror The Convicted Cinephile!

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    That's because most of the other films were criticized for squandering the potential...or having acting...or getting pompous with its politics...whereas 2 was considered an OK movie that did enough with the concept to be fun...and that's just not as interesting to talk about.

    I agree about "The Matrix Reloaded", even though for all I know, it hasn't aged well. I enjoyed it though upon release.
     
  21. DemonDragonJ He who dances with death

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    I have heard some people criticize Ghostbusters 2 and Home Alone 2 for being complete repeats of the originals, but I feel that both of those films are excellent in their own right, because they have enough good material to stand apart from their originals.

    Many Disney sequels failed to live up to the legacies of the originals (with notable examples being The Little Mermaid II: Return to the Sea or Pocahontas II: Journey to a New World), but The Lion King II, Beauty and the Beast: the Enchanted Christmas, and both Toy Story sequels all were excellent and added new elements to the stories that prevented them from simply repeating the originals.

    The numerous sequels to The Land Before Time were all awful, but Feivel Goes West was actually nearly as good as An American Tail, but the less that is said about the two sequels that followed after that, the better. Bartok the Magnificent is the only sequel to a Don Bluth film in which Bluth himself had any direct involvement, and it shows in both the story and the artwork of that film.
     
  22. MartialHorror The Convicted Cinephile!

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    I feel like "Ghostbusers 2" and "Home Alone 2" were panned upon release, but people have grown fond of them over the years. Is "Feivel Goes West" underrated? I guess I can see that, as it is more commercial and softer than its predecessor...As a kid, I preferred it, lol. I haven't seen either of them in years though.
     
  23. Mider Transylvania VM Zombie

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    Who says that?
     
  24. DemonDragonJ He who dances with death

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    I cannot recall who said that, exactly; it is something that I simply have heard some people say.
     
  25. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    Continuing off my last post, there seems to be a trend in some trilogies where a key character is incapacitated at the end of Part 2, as a cliffhanger, only to be immidiately rescued at the start of Part 3.

    Star Wars: Han Solo frozen in Empire, then rescued at the opening of Jedi.

    Pirates of the Caribbean: Jack eaten by the Kraken at the end of Dead Man's Chest, then rescued at the opening of World's End.

    The Matrix: Neo put in coma at end of Reloaded, then women at the opening of Revolutions.

    ---

    Slightly different, but similar:

    Star Wars prequels: Dooku revealed as evil at the end of Clones, then immidiately killed at the opening of Sith.
     
  26. DemonDragonJ He who dances with death

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    That was a major mistake, in my mind; Dooku definitely should have been around for much more of that movie, considering that he was played by Christopher Lee, whereas Grievous practically felt like a filler character.
     
  27. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    Now that you mention it, couldn't you have given all of Grievous' scenes to Dooku? Have Obi-Wan chase him around and eventually have an epic rematch duel, which we would have cared about because it'd be a character we knew rather some alien with four lightsabres.

    Maybe those scenes were originally written for Dooku, but they had to change it to a different character because of some behind-the-scenes issues that meant Lee could only be in that one scene?
     
  28. DemonDragonJ He who dances with death

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    That would be good, but the scene in which Anakin kills Dooku in cold blood was a crucial scene in the film, so it would still need to happen in some way.
     
  29. mr_shadow Minister of State Security Moderator

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    Eh, the entire opening sequence of Sith was stupid in my opinion. Remember the slapstick with R2 and the battle droids?

    If you took out that whole plotline you'd gain like 15-20 minutes (?) running time that you could use for better scenes conveying the same character development, to the extent there was any.
     
  30. DemonDragonJ He who dances with death

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    I personally believe that Terminator 3 was not too terrible of a film; it certainly was nowhere near as good as were the first two, but it was far better than Salvation and Genisys, both of which were awful, in my mind.

    Yes, that is very true.
     
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