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US accused over 'ghost detainees'

Discussion in 'The NF Café' started by Black Wraith, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. Black Wraith <b>The Chosen One</b>

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    SOURCE:

    They have childeren aged 7 for terrorism!. The most a child can terrorise someone with is a water gun.
     
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  2. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    why would CIA be putting little kids into a secret prison, it doesnt really add up.... unlesss you think CIA is sadistic it makes zero sense for stopping terrorism
     
  3. Amaretti No strong feelings whatsoever

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    Leverage? If dunking your detainee's head under water doesn't make him talk, how about doing the same to his kid?

    I don't know, I'm not sure about the truthiness of the kid thing.

    And if they expect the government to come clean about anything.... ha. :sag If it turns out they are violating basic human rights and international laws, it's not like they're going to own up so easily. But it really wouldn't surprise me.
     
  4. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    i dont know in my opinion a lot of these claims about "torture" are sort of exaggerated. if you compare what the CIA does to what saudi intelligence does i am sure there is no comparison whatsoevre and our "torture" is their "extreme leniency"
     
  5. Black Wraith <b>The Chosen One</b>

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    The only problem is torture in whatever form is against humam rights and the American constitution (I think). It doesn't matter if you think another country has harsher methods of torture.

    If you try to police the world and try to put sanctions on others for torture you should be free from the faults that your trying to police.
     
  6. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    black fenix i dont think the USA wants to police the world it is just trying to protect from getting attacked like it was on 9/11
     
  7. Link Courage

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    Well, don't paint me with the wrong brush for saying this, but I'd wager that some of those 39 are dead, and not by "apparent suicide" either.
     
  8. Vom Osten God save the Empire

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    I don't believe the whole "Seven Year Old" crap, and I don't think America will really pay attention to this article anyway. We've learned hwo lonely it is at the top.
     
  9. Hi Im God Active Member

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    You commented on an article I posted the other day of a 15year old in guantanamo! Why do you think this would be so unimpossible?ha!
     
  10. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    15 yrs old = capable of fighting US troops in afghanistan. 7 years old = not capable of doing anything of the sort.
     
  11. That NOS Guy The Pilot Who Lives by Pride

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    If true, the report of a 7 year-old in a prision is especially disturbing. However, to the best of my knowledge the ghost flights to countries that will seriously torture (we're talking a pair of pliers here) were stopped.
     
  12. T4R0K Searching for a custom title

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    7 years old = good pressure tool on an adult that is a parent.
    "Talk, or the child will suffer even more"

    Though... I'm kinda sceptical about the CIA taking kids.
     
  13. Oldy needs to shave

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    That's probably why the CIA sub-contracted torture with middle east countries.
     
  14. drache who's afraid ofa big bad wolf?

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    While I can see that, if our goverment has gone to that level, well I would want Bush impeached on the spot.

    That's just sick. And Lackinglack toture is wrong peroid, it has been shown repeatedly that toture generally only gives you bad information.

    Give me long enough and I can get anyone to say anything you want them to.
     
  15. T4R0K Searching for a custom title

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    No way to prove it or not... I just happen to watch a certain Jack Bauer on TV do stuff like that... Remember season 2 ?
     
  16. Ranger Samson Member

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    7 year olds are capable of being soldiers.
     
  17. Hi Im God Active Member

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    lol maybe not 7 year old americans theres well documented examples of child soilders it's not so uncommon as you make it seem.



     
  18. drache who's afraid ofa big bad wolf?

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    I despise 24 because it puts forth ideas that wouldn't work at all in the real world. Nor should they be condoned. I hope this last season was it's last season, it's like Survior at first it was ground breaking now it's just back breaking.

    And mini, grow up and get your head out of whatever your smoking. A 7 year old is as about an effective terrorist as my cat.
     
  19. Toby <b>Detective Dollars</b>

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    Now ladies and gentlemen, if you were storming the apartment of a suspected terrorist where a man possibly tied to some guerilla faction resides, would you act with caution upon entering the room? And if the man is arrested, would you still act with caution as you inspect the rest of the apartment? I thought so.

    Now, there are two possible scenarios which follow. In one, you find a boy who is the son of the suspect. If left alone in the apartment, there is no saying what will happen to him. For the suspect's assurance, and in drastic measures case, as leverage, the boy ought to be harbored somewhere safe. In the second scenario, you find the boy trying to hurt one of the apprehending men, members of a law force or intelligence agency. Do you play fair and let the kid perhaps attack your team-mate or do you disarm the kid and bring him too?

    There are many reasons why a seven-year old could have been brought. It is absolutely horrible that people are taken into questioning in this manner, but it is not something unusual. People have been taken hostage for less things, so let us focus on the actual crime here, which is prolonged imprisonment and illegal capture. But hell, we do not even know for certain where they were apprehended, so maybe the treatment they got with the CIA was not of the nature of torture. Not everyone in Guantanamo Bay were treated like animals.

    Oh, and I blame poor people for this. If people were not poor, we would not see nations going rogue and buying cheap nuclear plants which are confused with nuclear arms races. /ENDMANDATORYSARCASM
     
  20. drache who's afraid ofa big bad wolf?

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    There might be reasons why it happened Tobi but that doesn't make them good. And I personally am ashamed that the US gave up the high ground by trying to muddy the waters on what torture is and isn't. This isn't a war we'll win with bombs, guns or by apprending people, we need to complete the ideas behind those attacking us otherwise it's like a game of wack a mole. Sure we get them but they keep coming till they get though.
     
  21. neko-sennin AKA shadesmaclean

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    Nor did harassing and terrorizing children and decrepit elderly people at airports, but the did it anyway. And you'll never get an apology out of these same people for that, either.

    That is a disturbing possibility. If they've reached the point of covering up the murder of prisoners, or else more extreme rendition, then it's even worse than I thought.

    When Bob down the street mugs you, he puts a cap in your head, because he doesn't like witnesses.

    When I mug you, I wear a mask; you'll feel powerless and humiliated afterward, but you'll live.

    There is no comparison between being mugged by me, and being mugged by Bob.


    Then again, I might point out that Bush has lied his ass off before about things that were "shut down" but turned out to still be operating under even deeper secrecy, so that's not very reassuring.

    Yup, on both counts. Give me some handcuffs, and some random kitchen implements, and I will make you confess to raping your own mother, Lack. Or at least I would if I was sadistic bastard who wouldn't cringe everytime I hurt you.

    Yeah, I didn't have to finish watching a full episode of that pandering claptrap to tell that it was nothing more than gung-ho warhawk propaganda.

    I agree with the first part. But the cat you might want to be careful of. :p
     
  22. Black Wraith <b>The Chosen One</b>

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    According to British law you are not allowed to treat a child under 10 the same as an adult (Don't know if it is the same in America).
    So you don't think taking hostages is bad as long as you take the child of a 'suspected' terrorist?
    I know this is sarcasm but what the heck, Ill still say something.
    If they were no poor people there would be no rich people.
     
  23. Toby <b>Detective Dollars</b>

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    I know, Black Fenix. I pride myself on knowing international law and the Geneva Conventions on a fairly knowledgeable level for a citizen. I am remarking on the brilliant vacancy of creative thought spurring around the idea of why a seven-year old was apprehended by the CIA. The cruelty as I point out, is terrible. It is inhumane. However, it is not mind-boggling. Seven-year olds serve as child soldiers. I find that an obvious reason for why some intelligence agencies might think a child soldier needs questioning.

    So if you think I am condoning with their actions, you are mistaken. I am simply saying that it is not surprising. Well, I know my grandfather lived in an age in British history where regardless of age, the bobby would break your hands for taking a loaf of bread without paying for it. :)

    So blame money. It divides us!
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2007
  24. drache who's afraid ofa big bad wolf?

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    :rofl true, my cat can be evil, there are the times he 'helps' me cook as he weaves in and out of my feet, not to mention the times he 'terrorizes' me by waking me up before the sun has even come up. Now that you mention it I think he's out to get me:notrust .

    :wink
     
  25. Altron スキャンダル

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    It may be disturbing about these "ghost detainees" though i mean come on you all act like this is the FIRST time is history this has happened. Look at the former Soviet Union, hella worst what they did than what we could ever do and yet you all condone the US on every little fucking thing just because the US is always on the humiliating spotlight. Now i seriously hope there are no kids in there because that is just wrong and sick and those CIA bastards need bullets in there head. However do not act surprised like america is the only country to do this. Think about it, Russia, North Korea, China, etc.. have done it as well and africa is just fucked over from european imperialism hence why they can not govern themselves and are always fighting each other since they have been used to foreign rules. You can not really hold it against the US to have these "secret prisons" hell probably your own country has some as well, you do not really know because the government does not want the world to know.
     
  26. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    well maybe i just dont want to believe my country would do such horrible things. and if its true that torture provides no credible info why do you think the CIA or DOD would do it in the first place, are you calling them all ignorant of the research? i am pretty sure they know more about it than we do. and as far as the pic of an african kid i dont think that kid is 7, and there is a huge difference between 7 yr old and 15 yr old in terms of just sheer physiological/psychological capabilities in a war. i mean theyre just not comaprable. and as far as my preferences between being mugged and shot or mugged with a guy wearing a mask, i'll take the mask anytime. of course i'd rather avoid being mugged but at the same time the premise of your analogy is flawed because its not like USA is "randomly mugging" people they only pick up SUSPECTED TERRORISTS.... why would US government waste time money effort for peolpe they dont have good reasons to think want to kill/hurt innocent civilians?
     
  27. drache who's afraid ofa big bad wolf?

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    'Because everyone else is doing it' Has never been an acceptable answer to me and to quote what my mother would say to that 'well if everyone else jumped off a cliff would you?'.

    This isn't about other countries it's about what the USA has and hasn't done and what it should never do. Torture is wrong, it violates basic human rights. Further it's use as an interogation techinique is limited and any thing you get out of it will always be tainted.
     
  28. AbnormallyNormal 1 + 2 + 3 = 1 * 2 * 3

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    well like i said up above, i am pretty sure if its such a fact that "torture" doesnt produce results the CIA is aware of this they have a lot of well educated staff and immense researchh abilities. secondly the comparison to other countries is relevant because there is a lot of hysteria and it seems un-factual regarding us "torture", the very word tiself "torture" summons to mind things which the USA *does not* do
     
  29. drache who's afraid ofa big bad wolf?

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    I'd argue that it's more things the US hasn't been caught doing yet. Though water boarding is damn near close. Not to mention what happened at the Iraqi prison (name I can't spell) and yes I know the 'offical story' but I also know soldiers enough to know that there is no freaken way that some low level soldiers would come up and implment those ideas on thier own. Someone higher up come up with at least vague orders for what happened there.

    And while I can agree it's useful to an extent to compare the US to show that other countries are worse; at the same time I still hold that irregardless of how many and who they are it's never a good excuse to use 'but others are doing it'. To me that sounds like mindless following.

    And regardless of what the CIA is aware of it's a moot point if your orders come from further up. Remember this is the White House where Cheney who has never been a lawyer either in real life or TV was telling the legal department of the white house that the illegal domestic wiretapping was in fact legal. Our current adminstration lives in it's own world so I'm not surprised much at what it does any more.
     
  30. Giovanni Rild The mods are my enemy

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    Unlike the American haters here, I will demand proof for such a outrageous claim. I call Anti American bullshit.
     
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