Discussion in 'Dragon Ball' started by JayDZ3, Dec 30, 2018.
literaly doesnt prove anything and nothing these scans say is something we dont know.
Indeed we all know that Kid Buu and Goku are the 2 strongest characters in the universe by the end of Z and therefore superior to Gohan.
dude's a pretty blatant troll, honestly
you are Toei level of stupid.
What was Goku’s reaction to Vegeta knowing about SSJ3 again?
It’s extra salt what u expect?
You are NF's DB section level of stupid.
Denying countless evidences and statements from the DB manga and DBS series that states Goku/Kid Buu > Gohan
It is what it is. There's plenty of ways to explain Goku saying he can't beat Super Boo. An explanation is that since he never tried fighting at full power in SSJ3 prior to facing Pure Boo, he didn't know if he could beat Super Boo. The only limit to his SSJ3 power that he knew about was what he used to face Fat Boo. Anything above that was unexplored territory.
Another is that Goku made his admission of inferiority while his power was nerfed inside of Boo's body. The counterargument to this would be that Goku didn't know about his power being nerfed until Boo told him, but he could've just underestimated how weakened he actually was.
I find the first explanation most likely. Goku can still be weaker than Buutenks and Boohan while being on their level.
the only two good explanations I’ve heard is
2. Goku didn’t want to show SSJ3 to Vegeta which is why he was surprised when Vegeta mentioned it before Goku fought Kid Boo
To be honest this statement isn't that unbelievable if it's only about Super Buu and not Buuhan.
During that arc, Goku was hiding SSJ3. The fact Goku was so weary of using SSJ3 during that arc, much less at full power may have possibly been a reason why he may not have been that confident in beating Super Buu. Another reason could possibly be Vegeta's presence because Vegeta himself later on told to Goku while he was facing Kid Buu that he was just trying not to break his pride eventhough he could have been killed in an instant if he faced Kid Buu. When asked about if he could beat Fat Buu, he originally lied that he couldn't and even lied a second time to Piccolo only to say later while facing Kid Buu that he could have beaten him. And Super Boo is basically Fat Buu who switched from good to evil.
Even if he was stronger due to condensed rage, i don't think the gap should logically have been that big. Furthermore, after fighting Kid Buu, the Vegeta who earlier stated he saw SSJ3 Goku fighting Fat Buu, said this Goku was much stronger than he expected, suggesting that either Goku was holding back a lot of power against Fat Buu or he somehow became stronger(unlikely) and that before saying later that if he goes full power, he could obliterate Kid Buu in an instant.
So based on this, the power-level between FP SSJ3 Goku, Super Buu and Ultimate Gohan is up in the air i think, making this statement not so difficult to believe if it was in case of a comparison with Super Buu only, but if Buuhan is included in the statement, it's full of shit
Piccolo stated that Gotenks wouldn't have beaten Super Boo no matter what unless Goten and Trunks trained in the ROSAT
Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.4-5
Context: after evil Boo shows up and demands to fight Gotenks
Piccolo: “Go hit Trunks and Goten to wake them up, and take them into the Room of Spirit and Time…! Even in just 1 hour, they’ll be able to do 15 days worth of training.”
Kuririn: “Heh!? If we do it now…”
Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…! Tell them that if they don’t want to die while they’re still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can…!”
beforehand, everyone was reasonably confident that a Super Saiyan Gotenks would beat fatty
the gap is significant
more than likely referring to a Kamehameha, which is basically an amplifier
both Super Boo and Ultimate Gohan are much stronger than Goku, especially Gohan
Reminder the first time after Goten and Trunks perfected the Fusion Dance and fused into Gotenks successfully, they got cocky and were DESTROYED so badly they would've died against Majin Buu (Fat/Pre-Good and Evil split) until the world army showed up to get killed, distracting Buu from finishing them off.
Same Super Buu also states as soon as he sensed Ultimate Gohan's power in the Otherworld/World of Gods/whatever the fuck you want to call it, he was stalling intentionally against Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and states Gohan's power dwarfs theirs. So this leads to absolutely ass-hat level nonsense and disregarding every form of power scaling if someone buys into the idea that SS3 Goku in the original story is comparable to Super Buu and by proxy Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.
Even then goku had no problems saying he could’ve beaten fat and kid Buu yet never mentions he could take super buu meaning that super buu was out of his league
Plus this shit wasn’t written by AT so no point of arguing about it
Goku CLAIMS he might be able to beat the same version of Buu but we saw in the actual fight when Buu started copying Goku's attacks and getting serious, Goku is the one whose put on the defensive and sweating. So I have my doubts even there.
Good point but the thing is we don't know how pre-ROSAT Gotenks compares to Goku. The first time he tried Fat Buu, he got obliterated. Post-rosat Gotenks is another story though, but according to Trunks, he wasn't far off from Gohan in power
Maybe, but it still doesn't answer the point i made about Vegeta though. According to Vegeta, the Goku who fought Kid Buu was much stronger than the one who faced Fat Buu
Either way goku felt he had a shot at victory against them
When it came to Super buu goku shot down any chance of facing him unless he and vegeta fused
He doesn't mention to Piccolo how the fight shifted in Buu's favor.
Just for reference:
In V24, shortly after Majin Vegeta sacrifices himself trying to kill Majin Buu and Goku alright has Goten and Trunks practicing using the Fusion Dance technique, Goku uses IT to stall for time against Babidi and Buu, and when powered up to Super Saiyan 2, Trunks senses Goku's Ki and says he's as strong as Majin SS2 Vegeta.
When powering up to Super Saiyan 3 after Goku demonstrates the previous forms to Buu and Babidi, Piccolo says Goku's Ki won't stop growing and Tienshinhan and his mime buddy state the entire planet is shaking. Even Super Saiyan 2 Gohan whose training with the Z Sword across the universe in the Realm of Kais, along with Shin and Kibito can sense Goku's "tremendous energy". Then Buu vs SS3 Goku starts with Goku more or less dominating Buu at the first start of the fight.
Buu then uses Vegeta's Ki rapid scatter shot Ki attack and Goku states he didn't "hurt Buu at all." Next page, Buu gets punched by Goku, then retaliates and punches Goku the same way. Then Goku holes Buu with his signature attack, which Buu regenerates from and copies with his own version which has Goku shitting himself. He has to use both his arms to deflect the blast while Buu is laughing. That blast destroys about 1/10th of the planet according to Babidi but as soon as Goku senses Trunks has the Dragon Rader, he immediately goes back to base while Buu wants to continue the fight.
So yeah I will never buy the claim Buu was inferior to SS3 Goku even in that form.
And as far as when Piccolo questioning Goku on if he could've beaten Buu, Goku says, "I don't know."
Goku admits inferiority to Super Buu even with Vegeta’s help. Vegeta doesn’t disagree...
Buu stated he was the strongest ever as Buutenks. Elder Kaioshin sacrificed his life for Goku to help the defeated Gohan against this Buu to which Goku knew the only way to beat him was through fusion. This is when potara fusion was introduced because Elder Kaioshin knew it to be the greater fusion...
Goku was going to attempt fusion between Tien, Dende or Mr. Satan against an even stronger Buu (Buuhan). Fortunate for him, Vegeta was granted an extra day and thus Vegetto was born...
So yeah, Goku beat Buu (in a joint effort) but not when Buu was at his strongest...
EDIT: Fucking link blocks. Reposted images...
Toriyama made Goku the 3rd strongest in the Cell arc and then made him mid tier in the Boo arc, and to this day people just can't handle that, Toei included
im pretty sure random members on here know more about db than toei.
actualy , its a fact.
In my entire Life I believe Gohan>>Goku.
Bullshit V-Jump,Gohan>>>>Goku is fact in manga.
Man they just keep retconning shit
even Toei didnt make goku buuhan level.
this is like the nummber 1 proof that he is not
I mean, base Gotenks is at SS2 level or somewhere near, then you stack the super saiyan power ups on top of that and you need a special kind of math to have Goku ahead of the fusion.
Or serious SS3 Gotenks easily beating Super Boo and being seconds away from killing the bubblegum, the Boo that Goku was certain he couldn't defeat.
Only Toriyama can retcon his series...
base fusion > ssj goten since fusion is a waaaaaaaay higher multiplier than 50x.
and i dont think ssj2 goku is over 50 times stronger than ssj goten.
Daizenshu says Gotenks was weaker than Majin Vegeta till after the RoSaT. It had a picture of base Gotenks next to the entry.
Yes, base Gotenks is SSJ2 tier
lets all agree that for goku to be equal to buuhan and kid buu being the strongest buu goes literaly against everything what toriyama and even fuckin Toei showed.
Toei made goku> ultimate gohan in the Tapion movie.
they cleary showed it but why didnt they do it in the buu saga?
what about goku vs ultimate gohan inside buu you ask?
vegeta went ssj and than base than ssj mid fight without a reason at all , so who can tell that goku was not actualy ssj4 vs gohan and instead ssj?