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Vaizard, Arankaru, which is stronger?

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by Gallic Rush, Nov 28, 2005.

  1. Gallic Rush Why not?

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    I am confused. If shinigami become Vaizard purposely, it is to become stronger, yes? The goal is to surpass the limitations of the shinigami, right? So how does a hollow becoming more like a shinigami (i.e. becoming an Arankaru) make any sense? Wouldn't that put more limitations on the hollow? I fail to see how it makes the hollow stronger.

    The only explanation I can think of is that reaching the middle-ground is somehow more favorable than being at either extreme (hollow or shinigami). I don't see why this would be, but it's the only thing that makes sense that I can come up with.

    Can anyone clarify this?:S
     
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  2. GSurge Brilliant Punk

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    It was mentioned once that there is a limit to the maximum ability each soul can reach. By transforming from Shinigami into Hollow or vice-versa you can remove (or increase?) those limiters.

    Think of it like an RPG with a dual-class sytem. Normally you could be like... a level 20 Warrior, or a level 20 Ranger, or a 10 Warrior/10 Ranger, and so on.

    Doing this, you can be a 20 Warrior/20 Ranger.
     
  3. jonat3 Active Member

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    Becoming a hybrid lets a soul have access to both shinigami and hollow spiritual pressures. I think these spiritual pressures are sperate and only a hybrid can tap into both.
     
  4. jonat3 Active Member

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    Edit: double post.
     
  5. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    I would imagine an Arrancar created from a Vasterode would be the strongest since Vasterodes are stronger than any lone Shinigami, but anything lower than that could potentially be weaker than a Vaizard.

    Frankly I'm more curious if a Vaizards Shikai is like an Arrancars.
     
  6. Tousenz Banned

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    Im pretty sure there shikai is the same. The thing Vaizards Gain is the hollow inside so im pretty sure there extra power is the abilities the hollow gives them as a powerup.
     
  7. Blue Well-Known Member Supporting Staff Retired Staff

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    I believe Ichigo's answered that question - or has he? He was using his shinigami Bankai while in Vaizard mode.
     
  8. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    Personally I believe (despite what Hiruko said) that Ichigo is not a Vaizard, that he is in fact a unique being the likes of which has never existed. An Arrancar is a hollow given Shinigami powers, but it is still more Hollow than Shinigami, a Vaizard is a Shinigami given death god powers, but is more Shinigami than Hollow.

    Ichigo is a perfect blend, the ultimate hybrid, and exact mixture of hollow and shinigami, he was born that way which means it wasn't added to him later in life, it IS part of him.
     
  9. IronFist Alchemist 360 BOOTY CLAP!

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    So...daddy = Shinigami and mommy = Hollow??:blink
     
  10. Tousenz Banned

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    No his mom was a human. He was a shinigami before a hollow.


    Ichigo is a Vaizard. Some ppl think he got his powers when Urahara awoken them but they were always there.

    Just like his sisters, they were born with shinigami powers. Just needed to be awaken. They might be the only born Shinigami ever.
     
  11. Ikari Shinji ?

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    So it's like when he almost transformed into Hollow it split his soul into 2 pieces, 1/2 Hollow 1/2 Shinigami?
     
  12. Mori` <blink><font color="#DAA520">Sunshine.</font></bli

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    I'd say he's a/the perfect Hybrid. (or at least once he gains control he will be)

    In terms of hybridification I think you can look at it like

    shinigami have a maximum capability of 10
    hollows have a maximum capability of 10

    a perfect hybrid would combine these and have a maximum capability of 20 (There has to be a limit at the top end of power at some point)

    we've seen a couple of prototype arrancar/not perfect arrancar e.g. GF and whatever went after Uryuu, I also class Deiroy in here.

    When the hybridization process doesn't work quite as it should it means that a hybrid won't be able to maximise its potential. e.g an incomplete arrancar may only be able to reach a max of 15 because its not a perfect hybridization.

    For an arrancar like Deiroy lets say he was a Hollow with a power level of 4 originally, his hybridization process was incomplete and only gained him a partial increase in power, say a 3.

    hollow 4 + shinigami 3 = hybrid 7. Probably just under Vice Captain level.

    I firmly believe that Aizen hasn;t perfected the use of the Hou gyoku (sp?), Ulquiorra is going to be about the 3rd most powerful arrancar, once they are perfected I don;t know if they'll even have a trace of mask left. Also the way Ulquiorras hole is smaller makes me wonder if they might close up the more powerful they get.

    Then from that I think Aizen is not yet a hybrid himself, he won;t want to risk not being a perfect hybrid in some way.

    To answer the thread title, neither is stronger by definition but they both have more potential than shinigami.

    (if any of that made any sense :p )
     
  13. starphoenix ChaosKage

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    Is it even possible to compare allankars and vaizards? It is like comparing a shark to a tiger or hawk. We haven't even seen a vaizard go all out in battle and we have only seen one battle where an allankar shows their unique abilities.
     
  14. Gunners .

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    Just a quick question, when aizen transforms himself would he become a vaizard?
     
  15. Mori` <blink><font color="#DAA520">Sunshine.</font></bli

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    yes he will be a vaizard

    well we can only compare things from the theory behind it really.
     
  16. Gunners .

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    Do you think Aizen would use a Vasterode to turn in to an anarac, i mean if they are more powerul than captains wouldnt that pose as a threat towards him with the added power.
     
  17. Wrath Mourning

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    Becoming a Hybrid of either type massively increases your spirit power, and apparently also gives you access to new abilities. So the Arrancar have been shown to use Shunpo, which we don't have any evidence that Hollows can use, and they also have Soul Cutters. Presumably the Vaizards have access to special Hollow powers too, though they must manifest them differently.

    But the main boost seems to be the massive spirit power. That's also the strongest evidence for Ichigo having been born a Hybrid, since he was born with Captain-level spirit power.
     
  18. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    Think about it, people were saying its impossible for hybrids to exist, if all it took was to let a soul trying to become a shinigami partially become a hollow there wouldn't be a need for Urahara's invention.

    I'm a firm believer in the reincarnation theory, that Ichigo is the reincarnation of Kaien who died fusing with a hollow, so they would have died and been reborn together.
     
  19. Gallic Rush Why not?

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    You are missing the point of my question. I wanted to know why Hollows aim to become more like shinigami to become more powerful, but shinigami try to become more like Hollos to become more powerful. It would seem to me that they should choose one or the other and be happy with that decision :S

    As I, and a few other people, are guessing, the hybridization is what makes you stronger... not being either shinigami or Hollow. I thought someone might have some manga evidence or a different idea, but I guess not :sad
     
  20. Gunners .

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    ^^^^ mixing the two remove the boundries.

    someone done this before im gonna steal it.

    hollow=5 max
    shimagi=5 max

    when you fuse them the boundry double.

    hollow + shinagami=10 max ( dominant hollow)

    shinagami + hollow=10 max ( dominant shinagami)

    So my assumption is they have the possibilty to be equal based on the dominant ones original power and potential.
     
  21. Freakness Cry, Benihime !

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    Why would it ?
    We saw Ichigo's shikai and it's normal ...
     
  22. Sunuvmann <font color="##5262fc">of the Rebellion</font>

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    I would have to say Vaizard based on what weve seen (Ichigo used as example cuz we havent seen any better examples, though Ichigo could just be sronger then the average Vaizard).

    Arankaru = Captain level
    Vaizard > Captain
     
  23. FitzChivalry Person of Internet

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    Well, the Vaizards are trying to recruit Ichigo because he's "like them", right? Ichigo's zanpaktou releases/transforms like any other shinigami's so I would think that a Vaizard's zanpaktou release should be...normal.:oh I don't know how closely related Ichigo's status is to a Vaizard's so.....

    I don't really know; I'm just speculating.
     
  24. RockLee is no brethren unto Kaminae

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    Personally, Shinigami seems to be stronger simply because they are smarter. Hollows seem to be all about power, but they don't apply it well. Shinigami know by training how to use their powers effectively and efficiently. Arrancar seem to be of the Grand Fisher type. They may have a clever trick or two, but in the end they are just brutes. Look at Del Roy. He was incrediably strong and fast, but got owned due to lack of intelligence.

    Only the most successful Arrancars have the intelligence that matches a Shinigami.

    So, Shillows>Holgami.
     
  25. Gallic Rush Why not?

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    Hell, everyone is trying to recruit him.
    Spoiler: Slight plot Spoiler
    He has a special badge from the Shinigami's, he has an active invite from the Vaizards, and one of the Arrankarus mentioned that they could possibly recruit Ichigo later on.


    Ichigo is so awesome I wouldn't be surprised if the military tried to recruit him :tem
     
  26. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    If he is "like them", why do they need him? They can obviously create more people like themselves, why go after this person?

    Aizen is able to create Arrancar from Vasterodes, and armies of them, so why bother trying to kill Ichigo?

    SS has 13 captains (or will when the vacancies are refilled), 13 VCs and hundreds of Shinigami, why try recruiting Ichigo.

    The answer must be because he is unique, unlike anything any of them have, better.
     
  27. FitzChivalry Person of Internet

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    I understand what you two are saying. I only said what I said because of this:


    I based my opinions just off of this. I know he's unique and wanted by everyone. XD
     
  28. metalanime I like Tits

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    im sure they want him for his potential, not cause he is actually different other than that.
     
  29. Tsukiyomi Crazy Cyborg Monkey

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    My point still stands. The Vaizards can create more Vaizards from Captain level Shinigami while Aizen can create more Arrancar from the Vasterodes who are stronger than any captain.

    The potential of these beings is unreal and they can crank them out easily.

    So for him to have potential so great that the Vaizards would waste time trying to get him instead of producing more Vaizards, and that Aizen would worry enough to want him dead even though he'll eventually have every hollow under his control not to mention his own power as an Arrancar and those of the Vasterodes, would indicate he is different.

    He would have to be different than them in a very big way for him to have this level of potential even though he has no really extraordinary skill as a fighter, just raw power.
     
  30. Gunners .

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    Like some people say, they probably want to recruit him because he a perfect mix.

    Most hollows split are more hollow than shinamagi.

    Most shinamagi are mostly shinagami than hollow.

    Ichigo he has the shinagami powers from his dads side, part human through his mum.

    The the reicarnation part, he is most likely a reincarnation of kien but his soul was merged with a hollow at the time.

    So he comes it like a pedegri dog somewhat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2005
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