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WA Masters vs Itachi & Kisame

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Shazam, Jul 13, 2018.

  1. Shazam Well-Known Member

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    Knowledge : Manga
    IC
    50 meters
    Restrictions : 8th Gate
     
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  2. Zero890 Well-Known Member

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    Itachi solos.
     
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  3. Android 3:16

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    Doubt Itachi can solo but the Akatsuki definitely win this.
     
  4. Hi no Ishi Well-Known Member

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    Guy goes 7th Gate and tries to kick Kisame's face off, but he is blocked by Itachi's Susano'o.
    Itachi staggers for a second and finds a hole opening in his chest, as his heart goes to box land without him.

    Never take your eyes off of Kakashi.

    Masters mid diff.
     
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  5. Shazam Well-Known Member

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    There is zero soloing going on here.
     
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  6. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    Itachi solos.
     
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  7. Maverick04 Susanoo's nose is a waste of Chakra

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    Akatsuki duo take this mid to high diff..Only thing keeping Kakashi relevant here is Kamui..And he doesnt use it from the get go..he didnt against the Jinchurikis, he sure as hell isnt doing it now..Guy is the only legit problem here coz he can apparently fight without making eye contact to avoid genjutsu..That only means he is vulnerable to Amaterasu..Kakashi can be ragdolled by Kisame or Itachi
     
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  8. Tri

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    The Akatsuki duo overwhelm the masters here once Itachi pulls out MS.
     
  9. Sage light Well-Known Member

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    Akatsuki duo shit.
     
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  10. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    Since nobody wants to put any actual thought into this, I will.

    First off we already know Gai > Kisame. Half the battle is already 100% won for the Masters here. And lets not forget Kisame and Itachi arent actually a good synergy, as Kisame uses large scale attacks that might affect his partner also, Kisame loses easier than he did in canon to Gai. The other half the battle is WA Kakashi and Living Itachi. In which case is easily debated to go high-diff as Kakashi holds the intel advantage.

    I dare someone to post a speed feat for Amaterasu, seriously show me Ama landing on anybody with any sort of notable speed. And saying that Raikage "needed" V2 to dodge is inaccurate, bring up the scan if you want to. Kakashi used a doton earth wall quick enough against MS/Rinne Obito to block a Kamui shiruken attack at close range. I'm suggesting he can do the same in time against Itachi's Ama. When it comes to Tsukuyomi, Kakashi has been caught by it before, and later when he thought he was fighting Itachi in Shippuden he was confident this time around, not to suggest that confidence = fact of winning, but it shows that even after knowing about the MS genjutsu he felt as if he would fair much better this time around (nobody has that sort of confidence despite knowledge for no reason, lets be rational here). Susanoo can still be sniped with Kamui - I mean it worked against a truth seeker orb, why not against Itachi's lowly Susanoo in comparison. In fact he tried to snipe the Gedo head, which is much larger than the susanoo, so if Gai can force Itachi's attention, then a large enough Kamui can be used to snipe Susanoo+Itachi altogether (Itachi does not know a single thing about Kakashi having Kamui - And if the implications that Itachi kills Kakashi with MS jutsu that he already knows about but Kakashi cant kill Itachi with MS jutsu that he DOESNT know about is absurd and frankly superficial thinking)

    Even if Itachi beats Kakashi, it'll likely be after using his MS for an extended battle (or just sustaining Susanoo, using Ama amongst other jutsu), but which point he'd revert back to 3T and be tired. A tired WA Gai would beat a tired 3T Itachi.

    Masters can win this, high-extreme diff.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  11. Android 3:16

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    Amaterasu spawns where the user focuses his vision,

    Kakashi nor Gai can escape the Amaterasu simply because they can't escape Itachi's MS tracking vision.

    And yes, the Raikage did in fact need his V2 Shunshin to dodge the flames, because his V1 speed was easily perceived and tracked by Sasuke's base Sharingan.
     
  12. Ghost Of The Uchiha Well-Known Member

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    Masters mid diff;

    Hirudora one shots Susanoo, then Kakashi snipes Kisame.
     
  13. JuicyG Well-Known Member

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    It follows a path, Hebi Sasuke was dodging it - It has never killed anybody with notable speed



    No reason to suggest gated Gai lacks to the speed to dodge. And by comparison Kamui is just as dangerous here, this isnt a battle where only the Masters have to figure out how not to die. Itachi is in the same boat since Kisame is beaten and he doesnt know about Kamui

    This assumes that V2 Raikage is bare minimum needed to dodge Ama, that assumption is not based on facts
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  14. Troyse22 Tailed Beast Without a Tail

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    Literally me when someone spews trash like this ---->:drake

    Any time Gai has fought Kisame, Kisame has always been considerably nerfed in some way.

    1st "fight"- Gai lands a blindside kick on Kisame, to which Kisame literally laughs at with no visible damage. Itachi pussies out and retreats to save Gai's life.

    2nd fight- Gai almost dies against 30% Kisame (not just 30% chakra, but 30% of his overall power, as he himself confirms after said "clone" is defeated). Barely manages a win with the 6th Gate

    3rd Fight- Gai is forced into his strongest attack in his second highest gate against a considerably nerfed Kisame. Kisame did not have Samehada, which gives him extremely high mobility underwater, regeneration, the ability to protrude spikes etc. All of which would spell SERIOUS trouble for Gai.

    Kisame would've recovered after Hirudora and Gai would've been DONE.

    Kishi made it clear based on constantly nerfing Kisame for the Gai fights that he felt Full power Kisame>Full power Gai (short of the 8th gate)

    OT:

    Kakashi solos with Kamui, unbalanced matchup :doge
     
  15. Gohara Ryutoshi

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    That team of Itachi and Kisame wins that match up in my opinion because Itachi can mostly school Kakashi as Kisame matches up on par with Gai. :p
     
  16. Android 3:16

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    Hebi Sasuke didn't dodge shit, Itachi was trying his best not to hit him at a fatal spot and he only hit the tip of his wing. Bad example.

    The burden of proof in this case in on you, you're the one who's gonna have to prove that Gai has the speed and the reflexes to escape the tracking speed of someone with the MS, someone whose speed could perceive even the speed of Kirin.

    Not to mention, if Gai wants to dodge the flames he has to look at Itachi, which puts him at risk of getting caught in Genjutsu.

    So good luck.


    You don't know what's the bare minimum of speed AND reflexes needed, so this doesn't give you the right to say that the masters aren't going to be tagged by Amaterasu. We know that the Raikage needed his maximum speed to escape the flames.

    In addition, that was the tracking vision of early MS Sasuke. Itachi's tracking vision is even higher than that.

    With no sensory abilities or fast enough speed ? Good luck to the masters winning.
     
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  17. WorldsStrongest Man of Miracles

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    You mean Itachi was missing on purpose

    Not the same thing

    Even Sasuke knew he couldnt dodge that shit, if he didnt he wouldnt have PLANNED on getting hit in the first place
    This is a dumb argument

    This is like me suggesting Since Hebi Sasuek has well above average durability feats with CS2 from tanking V1 hits to taking C2 explosions, that means he can tank FRS because FRS has never killed anyone with notable durability

    Not the best logic
    Not true

    And conversely there is no reason to assume Gai is fast enough to dodge it in the first place

    Gai has never even been noted to compete on a high end speed level in part 2...Literally never once outside of 8th gate has his speed been considered wildly impressive

    His speed is good, but not great basically

    He isnt slow by any stretch, but compared to ACTUAL speed demons in part 2, hes not up to par
    Kamui used by a Kakashi who by his own admission needs to be closer than hed like to his target to use Kamui efficently

    Kamui being used by a guy who is far slower than Itachi is and is incredibly likely to be feinted either by clones or genjutsu game that FAR surpass Kakashis own

    Its safe to say Amaterasu is FAR more likely to occur
    Because thats legitimate fact

    We KNOW, for an irrefutable fact, that V1 Raikage is too slow to dodge it

    And we KNOW, for an irrefutable fact, that V2 A while anticipating Amaterasu BARELY dodged Amaterasu even with his speed



    So yeah...Its not exactly unfounded to suggest that V2 Raikage speeds are the bare minimum or NEAR the bare minimum to dodge Amaterasu...And Gai has no feats or hype to suggest hes up to par whatsoever

    Hell, its a challenge to prove hes terribly faster than V1 A
    It sure is bud
     
  18. Shark Ikimasu yo

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    Kakashi and Gai's portrayal does not suggest this outcome...
     
  19. Shazam Well-Known Member

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    I'm also leaning Kakashi and Gai here. This isn't Edo Itachi ,he's only going to do so much. And Kamui is always dangerous despite its severe downplay
     
  20. Shark Ikimasu yo

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    This.

    Plus, even if Itachi was going serious with Amaterasu (which there is evidence against) Sasuke countered Amaterasu by oral rebirth. The "outrunning" could simply be dramatic and whatnot.

    The whole point of that exchange was to show Oral Rebirth as a counter to Amaterasu.

    I mean Sasuke failed to outrun it, so how people say "even Hebi Sasuke evaded it" is beyond me. :drake
     
  21. Shark Ikimasu yo

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    :huh
     
  22. hbcaptain Well-Known Member

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    I didn't knew you underrate Itachi this much @Shazam
     
  23. Shazam Well-Known Member

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    "I didnt know "

    Im not underrating living Itachi as much as some people are underrating WA Kakashi. Dude has got some crazy good feats.

    Also, there is talk of Ama killing Kakashi, but oddly enough, no talk of Kamui killing either Kisame or Itachi despite them not knowing about it. That is what I call underrated
     
  24. Shazam Well-Known Member

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    I'm implying that he's been discussed at his Edo self rather being remembered for his living incarnation like the thread wants
     
  25. Ghost Of The Uchiha Well-Known Member

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    Well 7G Guy performed better than SM Minato against Jin Madara and he blew up Madara's V3 with Hirudora.

    Kakashi's Kamui snipe was praised by Madara who called Amaterasu trash.

    Itachi held his own against KCM Naruto and Bee and contributed to Nagato's defeat.

    Kisame held his own against V2 Bee.

    So i'd say that the masters have better portrayal, especially Guy.
     
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  26. PradyumnaR The Demon King

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    We don't know If v2 is the minimum speed required to dodge it. We haven't seen anyone slower face the Ama. And honestly, how many times was Ama even successful. Gai in 6 gate is clearly fast enough to keep out ou his visions focal point. Line of sight is different from focal point of vision.
    Seeing some one moving like a blur is also tracking but that does not mean you can focus on him for vision based attacks like Ama and Kamui.
    Amaterasu also seemed to follow Sasuke like someone also pointed out.
    If a Shinra Tensei can douse out ama... Maybe even a Hirudora can.
    Kamui can probably disregard susanoo and snipe the person in it.
    Gai is definately putting itachi in defense here and giving enough openings for Kakashi to do his thing. He can literally launch a Hirudora any time he wants and Yata isn't omnidirectional.
    All In all, itachi isn't beating a team which has someone like Gai or V2 A4 in it who is a hard counter for most of his major techniques and add in Kakashi it is impossible for Itachi. Kakashi only got caught in part one because he was mis informed about the Tsukuyomi and he thought sharingan can neg it. You obviously see him get around it the second time.
    Gai in 7g was able to hit / blocked JJ Madara with Hirudora while a spam god like Minato was getting kicked around. That is way more impressive than what most people give it credit for.
     
  27. Shark Ikimasu yo

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    Minato had no arms. Minato (alive or not) is leagues above Gai as the manga portrayed so I don't know why you would compare them.
    Again you need to look at overall portrayal instead of nitpicking praise.

    Someone like Itachi is above Kakashi.
    Ok? How would Kakashi perform in his place? Do you think he even belongs there?
    Gai has been portrayed as a bad match up for Kisame and as Kakashi's equal, Itachi has been portrayed as someone easily stronger than Orochimaru and Kisame is not far of from the two either.
     
  28. Ghost Of The Uchiha Well-Known Member

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    I simply compared their performance there and Guy's was clearly better.

    Agreed.

    No he doesnt and Itachi assuming no illness is above everyone here.

    All true but Guy did display better reactions than SM Minato since he managed to avoid getting his arm sliced off and he did display the ability to bust up a V3 that's quite stronger than Itachi's , so i thought the masters' (especially Guy's) abilities would lead them to victory in the context of this fight.

    Healthy Itachi would be a tier above everyone here but since he does have it here i assume, i think the match-up is quite balanced.
     
  29. PradyumnaR The Demon King

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    1. Minato lost said arms because of Madara. It's not like he went into fight Madara default without arms. Bad example.
    Still doesn't matter because guy was good enough to Hirudora madara.... And Jj Madara is leagues ahead of Itachi in speed.
    2. You should know by now that it is the character type that dictates the battle and not the character himself. Kisame took down Gobi and lost to Gai. It is not that Gai is stronger than Gobi, it is because Gai was the right guy to kick Kisame's ass and they are in the general same power bracket. The same way he is the right guy to counter Itachi and his sharingan. He had zero issues with rinnegan obito even with kamui...so I don't see why he'll fail against Itachi.
    Kakshi also is a lot closer to itachi by the time of the final Arc. The difference is not a land slide.
     
  30. PradyumnaR The Demon King

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    Madara shouldn't even be the matter here. If guy can launch a Hirudora on Jj mad in Cqc, he is doing it on itachi. Itachi is no where near Jj Mad reactions.
    This thread is like just because he couldnt do it to Madara, he won't do it to Itachi.
     
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