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What are your thoughts on grooming?

Discussion in 'Nanatsu no Taizai' started by Pliskin, Jun 30, 2018.

  1. Pliskin Well-Known Member

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    Question in title.

    I am negative towards it but the manga offers an interesting perspective on the child adult relationship.
     
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  2. Yak Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what aspect of the term "grooming" you are referring to, here. And what exactly your opposition is.
     
  3. Dayscanor The One

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    Can't be the only one who thought of pubes(and mustaches to a lesser extent).:lmao

    Do you mean groom someone into becoming something, like some kind of guardianship? You gotta help us here mate.
     
  4. Dayscanor The One

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    According to UD grooming is when a pedophile builds a relationship of "trust" with a kid...

    I don't like where this is going and just how? And who? :drake
     
  5. Orkz an Ork that ate 'hito hito no mi, model : NINGEN?!'

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    Are you wondering if Ban should've kept his facial hair or not, OP?
     
  6. Pliskin Well-Known Member

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    Great minds think alike, yes, but lets keep that debate in a seperate threat.

    Here it is about adults raising children while seeing them as future love interests and adjacent topics and their unique portrayal in the manga.
     
  7. Inuhanyou Will of the Goddess

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    When gowther erased guila's memories of everything regarding herself and put himself as pretty much the focal point of everything having to do with Guila's childhood and life, it was very scary. While it was only a relatively temporary thing, the actual ethics of such a thing are just indefensible

    Of course in reality its not possible to use magic to hypnotize people in that manner, but as the manga portrays it, its obviously thrown into a negative context despite it being somewhat silly that guila just shrugged it off and left. I would have liked to see her actually go to town on him or break down, or something like that. But i guess its her memories of her dad that allowed her to hold onto some good.

    Is that what you were talking about OP? I can't really find much else..
     
  8. Dayscanor The One

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    I think he meant Mel x Eli....
     
  9. Inuhanyou Will of the Goddess

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    Er...but that that's not grooming nor pedophilia...i feel like i am missing something here, can the OP please explain
     
  10. Yak Well-Known Member

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    Ain't gonna touch this topic with a ten foot pole. The various racial differences and in-story implications make it literally impossible to come to any logical conclusion on whether the inter-species behavior and romantically orientated interests are bordering on something immoral or not, Freud would fucking suicide over having to work this out so I sure as hell won't waste any further thought on this matter beyond this post
     
  11. Inuhanyou Will of the Goddess

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    Even reincarnation is involved, and not just any reincarnation, but immediate reincarnation, repressed memories and unchanging emotional bonds
     
  12. Mider T VM Zombie

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    What do you think @DemonDragonJ
     
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  13. Dayscanor The One

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    Just don't. :catprone
     
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  14. Pliskin Well-Known Member

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    Finally some serious responses.

    Yes, the circumstances are certainly unique, as stated in the OP. Still somewhat of a central theme here, Meilsabeth and MinMax pairing, probably some I am forgetting.

    Moral dimension aside, I just wonder about the practicality of it, like has Mel decided a minimum age for himself to start his groping routine, has he developed a 'best practice' policy after 100+ child raisings or does he play it by ear.
     
  15. Inuhanyou Will of the Goddess

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    The only thing we can say for certain that mel is never going to take advantage of elizabeth sexually when she's in a vulnerable position such as being a child.

    Beyond that...he's spent roughly 106 lifetimes with the girl, i feel like literally any scenarios are fair game. But "grooming" feels out of place in the conversation because elizabeth's love and enduring attachment to Mel is literally her own recycled over every lifetime, growing stronger every time, its not him doing anything beyond being himself and taking care of her like he always does
     
  16. Dayscanor The One

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    It's pretty much a baseless claim as far as I'm concerned. Sure if you oversimplify it you look at an adult who calls a child "his woman", but we have to consider their whole story.

    Not only is it unlikely that Mel had to raise every incarnation of Eli (I think he only had to do it this time) but so far it doesn't look like he made a move on her when she was a baby...Also to Eli herself Mel was more of a parent, growing up, or a friend. So you can't say that Mel was grooming her, with the intention to get into her knickers. Also Eli's memories of Mel growing up were erased during the Sins' evasion, so by the time they met again he was a stranger to her.

    Last but not least, even if we take into account that he groped her, when she's 16 we have to consider it's a fictional universe, we don't know jack shit about the legal age in the NnT world, and all of it seems to be nullified by the fact that both Mel and her are technically 3000 years old. You could say that the current Eli has the wisdom of 3000 years and a 100+ lives, so she is very much the woman he knew 3000 years ago and some more.

    So it's very much innacurate to call it grooming, if we consider ALL the aspects of this relationship, sure we joke about it but it's just that, a joke. No one in his sane mind would think that Mel took Eli in with the sole purpose of having sex with her.And like Yak said, we don't know nearly enough about races and stuff to know what maturity really is in the NnT world.

    And this is coming from someone who is more and more bothered by concepts like lolis and shotas, or even any mention of underage relations. I wish Japan wasn't so fucked up tbh.
     
  17. Inuhanyou Will of the Goddess

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    I feel if Mel is considered one who has "groomed" elizabeth like that, then King i guess should be considered even more of that, cause his lifespan is much different than dianes, and he actually met her when she was a child.

    But again, fairies and giants are completely different development wise anyways.

    I feel like in 106 lifetimes, mel has had to make a lot of hard choices, and elizabeth was at the focal point of those sacrifices and points of suffering, but there is no doubt that his intentions for her are always pure
     
  18. DemonDragonJ The Man

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    I currently am not following Nanatsu no Taizai, so I cannot offer any opinion on this matter.
     
  19. Tom Servo Pants Pants Pants Pants

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    I somewhat disagree since King and Diane were probably around the same age species wise. Now in human comparison id say King is 13 while Diane is 15 since fairies age slower...it does make the relationship between Ban and Elaine creepy seeing as how she’s King’s little sister (also Ban always playing the big brother role to King makes ghe gap more noticeable)
     
  20. HHellenn Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but Nakaba told if King will be a human his age will be a 30.
     
  21. Tom Servo Pants Pants Pants Pants

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    when was this?
     
  22. HHellenn Well-Known Member

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    27th volume.
     
  23. Pliskin Well-Known Member

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    Very informative and supports the point that the age gap is a central theme of the manga.
     
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  24. Dayscanor The One

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    No the central theme of the manga would be "Love prevails". After many hardships and obstacles including death and reincarnation, love will still prevail in the end. Be it Mel x Eli or King x Diane etc.

    The age gap isn't even a theme, it's just a gimmick that allows Nakaba to draw his characters the way he wants them to, because he seems to love the idea of an MC who looks like a 15 year old. Prolly because that's his targeted demographic (shounens).

    And the result is a cast that looks varied enough, you have a typical shota (King), a more muscular shota or whatever Mel is, a hunk (Ban), a twink (Gowther) and a bearish hunk (Escanor during the day). The girls are different enough physically to not suffer from a serious case of same face, like in OP.
     
  25. Inuhanyou Will of the Goddess

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    :hurr day has a point there
     
  26. sabre320 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly it creeped me out a biit that meliodas carried around elizabeth as a baby with the goal of raising her to be his woman...reincarnation or not she is her own person....it was quite creepy....especially when he was groping her etc so soon.
     
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  27. Inuhanyou Will of the Goddess

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    I get so frustrated with this line of thinking...

    He didn't "raise her with the goal" to be his woman. He simply raised her cause she was Elizabeth. He wasnt thinking about screwing her as a child or whatever sick stuff. As for her age, 16 in medieval times or even in general right now in many countries around the world is of age

    I dont really get where people get that sinister edge to this thing when its never been implied in Mel's character or the narrative

    I also dont really understand where the notion comes from that elizabeth is somehow separate from her own soul the other hers. What makes her her at the core is what is reincarnated every-time. The only thing that changes is her environmental circumstances and outward personality, the exterior. That is why when her memories of her other lifetimes return, there is no disconnect, she IS all those other versions
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2018
  28. Last of the Arrancar UNDEAD

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    IMO any manga is up for interpretation but I've actually never ever seen this subject being brought up (or even heard about it), it feels a bit trollish to even bring this up, from my POV in the case of Mel and Eli judging purely on their physique I would judge Mel younger or equal in age than Eli, and with this my biggest objection is why does she let this guy be inappropriate with her, grabbing her etc. This is not how a girl would normally respond to a guy she barely knows grabbing her boobs or whatever. I had serious issues with how Mel acted towards Eli during the manga. Mel might have good intentions and not an evil bone in his body (?), but his actions are totally inappropriate.

    Concerning Ban and Elaine, physically their situation is very awkward, I'm not sure what human age she would be when she met Ban, but clearly she has mental strength and physical strength, from the side story she seems to be the one who is more aware of her feelings, but clearly it's still awkward, also we don't really know what an adult fairy woman is supposed to look like.

    Other than that I think OP is a fucking creep the way you brought this up and how you phrased it.
     
  29. Yak Well-Known Member

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    By mere subconcious instinct alone she does. She's said many times throughout even the earlier stages of the manga that she feels strangels familiar around Meliodas; that's purely the suppressed memory speaking because due to the course she may have forgotten about her past lifes but her reincarnated body basically knows they have always been a couple. That said, in more recent chapters after regaining her memories, Elizabeth has felt a lot more mature and "organic", she has finally come into herself and knows who she is, what she can do and if it's enough, she'll tell you to cut the shit out or she'll just make you. She slapped Mel with that massive Ark after he verbally wounded her, she wasn't there to sit through Estarossa's shit and sent him flying away without a second thought, etc.

    In this series one cannot treat their relationship and its implications at pure facevalue while ignorning the entire context behind it. That's why this entire grooming talk comes off as extremely silly and off the mark for me.
     
  30. Captain Boldman Well-Known Member

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    Am I a creep because I never really thought about this aspect of the manga until now. I always just considered many of the female charactes of the loli archetype or males like Zeldris and Meliodas as shotas (the male equivalent of loli).
     
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