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What clan is more OP the Uchiha or Uzumaki?!

Discussion in 'House of Uzumaki' started by Shinobi1jutsu, Apr 5, 2019.

  1. MaruUchiha

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    I thought they only surpress Bijuu?
     
  2. Hussain

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    nowhere was that stated. :catshrug

    Karin destroyed the Buddha for example, was it a Bijuu? :catshrug
     
  3. MaruUchiha

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    Not the same as surpression but OK
     
  4. Sunrider

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    I got my theories about the unspoken potential of the Uzumaki, but generally the Sharingan is too OP and it seems like at least an average number of Uchiha can get it naturally with no extra classes or anything (not counting stress of course).
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  5. Zensuki

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    Nah. PS can fly and the chains have only been shown to restrain, not tank destructive hits.
     
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  6. Hussain

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    not sure how is that relevant. Also, Asspulldara's PS cannot fly.

    1- they don't need to "tank" it because the target won't be able to move anyway.
    2- their entire properties to restain the target is based on how sturdy they are.
     
  7. Zensuki

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    Can't catch PS if its flying.

    I mean they would if the target attacked them.
     
  8. Mike307

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    If you take away Madara, then the Uzumaki Clan defintely have the edge here.

    1. The Uchiha Clan were wiped out two shinobi named Itachi and Obito with their taijutsu alone, while the Uzumaki Clan were wiped out by multiple nations

    2. Not all Uchiha awaken the Sharigan, but the Uzumaki Clan are specialized in sealings as well as high chakra, which was why they were chosen to contain Kurama in chapter 500 and they have a strong lifeforce as shown in chapter 579.

    3. The Sharigan drains you of the chakra
    the more you use it and the Mangenkyo Sharigan can potentially and the Susanoo does more damage to your body the more you use it, which is why the Eternal Mangenkyo Sharigan is needed to fix that error. If they actually did that with every Uchiha that'd cut their strength in half becuase almost to half their soldiers would be blind and useless in battle.

    The Susanoo isn't impenetrable either because Danzo stated that it has a weakness in the back spine when fighting Sasuke.

    The Uzmaki Clan can use summoning jutsus to combat the Susanoo as well and before mentions the Uchiha can do that too. The only 1s who were shown to do so were Madara and Sasuke.

    4. The Uchiha Clan can only be able to control Kurama with the Mangenkyo Sharigan if Kurama was outside of a host, which was shown when Madara couldn't summon Kurama when he was inside of Naruto's body, but was able to control him when fighting Hashirama.
     
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  9. Divell

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    And the Hyuuga.
     
  10. Femme

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    A pinnacle natural Uzumaki is tsunade and Karin, which is stronger than the average uchiha. But then again genius can’t be promised
     
  11. Sunrider

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    Lol 'rivaled' about a century before the main characters were born, right before bending the knee.
     
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  12. Quit

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    Naruto could solo any Uchiha in a one on one and decimate the hell(including eos sasuke) out of the entire clan on his own if he wanted to.

    So uzumakis win the most powerful award with Naruto representing them.
     
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  13. kreeptonyte23

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    It depends on preference. I would not want to be an uchiha cuz their powers are fucked up
     
  14. Soul Helper

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    You should have stopped here. The Sharingan is the most broken thing in the manga.
    It isn't particularly close, either.
     
  15. Canute87

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    You need to get out of your head that Uchiha Itachi was a standard.

    Recall his easily kicked 3 other uchihas asses.

    One senju engaging in a stalemate with a normal uchiha isn't that far fetched.
     
  16. Sacred Sentinel

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    Yet Chiyo advises that you flee from any sharingan user if you're alone.
     
  17. dergeist

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    You need to get out of your head that the Uchiha weren't nerfed for plot purposes, even though they inherited the dojutsu that let's them violate nearly everybody. That's ignoring Itachi and just focusing on the powers of the 3T.
     
  18. Canute87

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    Chiyo ................... Senju Clan


    Does not compute.
     
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  19. Canute87

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    Nerfed for plot purposes :lmao

    Kishi workshipped the uchiha clan. Yet the senju came about.

    Their strength and skills and powerful chakra made up for some tomoe sharingan
     
  20. dergeist

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    Senju skill, strength and powerful chakra? Don't make me laugh those are all qualities of the Uchiha chakra, even Tobirama admitted the Uchiha awaken a power(Sharingan) the Senju can't match. It's better you accept the plot nerf.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  21. Canute87

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    Dealing with the sharingan under regular circumstances is not a problem hence the uchiha would have wiped out the senju from just unlocking the sharingan alone.

    The problem is, as tobirama stated, their are those particular uchiha who are quite sensitive, who's darkness will manifest and thus make them more powerful. Madara has been the only person to achieve that and that was because he loved his brother VERY much that it triggered such powerful emotions.

    So unless every single uchiha lost their loving brother they would never have gotten the chance to overthrow the senju because their rise in power was dependent ...on those powerful feelings of hatred. Hatred is not as trivial as you want to believe.


    Uchiha Clan NEVER got to madara's level or anywhere close that's why itachi was able to wipe all the fuckers out with ease.

    PS. My heart goes out to Mikoto though. She didn't deserve that :-(
     
  22. dergeist

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    Tobirama never said that, he clearly referred to the Sharingan(3T) when he made his statement. It was even shown when he said the Senju can't rival it. However, he then went onto state the power can go even far beyond that unmatchable level.

    In other words the Senju keeping up with even 3T Uchiha is only possible because of plot nerf. And that confirmation of ability not to match was coming from the elite Tobirama himself. Try and understand that. There has been nothing stopping an Uchiha from using Sharingan genjutsu to bodyflciker killshot except plot nerf.


    Itachi wiping them out was because they were being restricted by Konoha by being kept as a police force. That limited their exposure to combat which limited their arsenals and expression of talent. Even then it was Tobi who merked off most of them, and he had rokudo powers taught to him by Madara on his side + his invincible phasing ability. Itachi only dealt with a few and even his parents never fought against him.
     
  23. Canute87

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    .

    No, He referred to the sharingan power going through significant chances the more emotionally unstable the sharingan user became. Madara being one such individual took the sharingan further, way further than the original three tomoe usage.

    Jiraiya explained how sharingan genjutsu can be broken. Naruto couldn't do it because it was fucking Itachi. Senju clan have significantly powerful chakra and are well versed in shitload manners of combat. They were at the top. Uchihas countered them with their eye power.

    Senju have to exhausted more power against a sharingan user but ther're crazy level of chakra balances it out. Until the uchihas start to get dark and the powers start to spiral upwards it gets much harder.



    They were in the last great war, You saw obito and how far natural uchiha talent went without sharingan, in addition to that you heard chiyo words and gai had to develop an unorthodox strategy to fighting them.

    Itachi was way beyond any of them and showcased talents then could only dream off, his quick acension up the ranks more than any uchiha cannot be taken for granted. And you know he kicked 3 others without effort.

    Itachi took down a significant number of them he was stronge rthan his father, he wouldn't have done shit.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
     
  24. dergeist

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    No he didn't he mentioned the unmatchable power they awaken. The eye that reflects the heart or the sharingan and you're shown a 3T sharingan. And what further cements this is the fact tjat he said the Uchiha awaken it(so it's a common thing), not MS which is rare. The latter mention was to confirm it's heights go beyond even that unmatchable power.

    Nonsense Jiraiya told him how to break genjutsu yes, but Itachi just stood there. Do you think an Uchiha will stand and wair for somebody to break their flow, especially in the warring states. Chiyoi who's a medic and excelled at chakra control told them the rule of two applies when fighting an Uchiha. And she didn't mention any exceptional Uchiha. It's clear that the genjutsu fucks people up even from unknown Uchiha. That is why they were hit with plot nerf as nobody could really match the power of the Sharingan. Also it is the Uchiha who inherited Indra's talent and powerful chakra, not just his eyes. The eyes put them in another league, ehich is ehy plot nerf happened.

    Nonsense, genius Tobirama confirmed they awaken a power that Senju can't match. That's the 3T sharingan, btw.


    No they weren't Obito was just a part of team Minato. And even he admitted he wasn't talented like the Uchiha clan. Yes, some fought in Chiomy's war and at that time they had developed the rule of two. And these are no named Uchiha, btw. As for Gai he developed his method to fight Kakashi, ehich can be applied to lower level Uchiha.

    Actually Itachi was trained and spent his time trainjng with Shisui. The most gifted Uchiha of their age, while the police were restricted to the village. Unlike the ANBU such as Shisui and Itachi so they had actual battle exposure.

    Nonsense, Itachi took down a few, and even admitred he couldn't beat his father. Or his team so he took them out while they slept in a specific order. While Obito took out the rest of the clan.

    And then you have the third and others admitting if the Uchiha rebelled the leaf would be fucked. Even in their nerfed form they were strong enough to wreck the leaf.
     
  25. Canute87

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    Sometimes i wonder if there's a more accurate translation to tobirama's words.


    I don't believe the Senju clan members would be held in genjustu for very long or at the piont where they would be helpless at the very least they'd know quite instantly if they were , As you know they themselves were extremely proficient genjutsu users.

    There's no other clan in the narutoverse that has anywhere near the versatility of the senju clan in their dynamic chakra levels and how talented they were in the three arts The fact that you're trying to use a medic puppeteer as a standard example is where it falls.

    The senju inherited Ashura's capabilities, as well as the uchiha who inherited Indra's. Indra was the eyes Asura was the body and as you know Asura defeated his brother .

    He was able to match indra's talent and eyes by the power of the body. Asura inherited the "body" not Indra. And that Body went down to the Senju.

    Sasuke's sharingan got significantly more powerful from the time he unlocked it to the time you saw him with orchimaru. A super genius uchiha with significant darkness can encourage that change because he was so consumed by it . Those uchihas are not common. As tobirama mentioned there were some sensitive ones.

    Unlocking the 3 tomoe sharingan is a standard uchiha abiltity ESPECIALLY in those times. You can't believe only a few select people unlocked the three tomoe sharingan.


    You also have no named senju so i don't understand the point of that statement.

    Kakashi is significantly talented. There are not that many talented uchihas that surpass kakashi in skill.


    If itachi was trained then the uchihas were the ones that did the training which meant they should have been just as strong.

    If they weren't trained that means the abnu training is more advanved than any uchiha traning. Something doesn't add up there.

    Itachi's talent went further than many of them and he improved his abilities.

    [/QUOTE]Nonsense, Itachi took down a few, and even admitred he couldn't beat his father. Or his team so he took them out while they slept in a specific order. While Obito took out the rest of the clan.[/QUOTE]

    Care to link that chapter? Knowing Itachi that was uncertainity. I honestly doubt that was a testament of his skill but some serious emotions between the two. Killing your own father vs killing your won son i don't think it's possible to swallow a pill that bitter....even to take it anally.

    The civil war outbreak would have caused the other warring states to attack. Sarutobi and Danzou were ahead and knew about the coup so they would have been prepared the leaf would have suffered heavy loses but they would have won. but they would still be fucked in the long run.

    Well......maybe before the kyuubi attack. That did kinda fuck them up.

    In addition to that It all depends on how well planned and coordinated the attack would be. Uchihas wouldn't openly declare war and then there's nothing the leaf wouldn't be able to do with the other clans that's madess.

    The leaf had the numbers and seeing how you constantly bring up chiyo's method for non senju opponents two vs one. Then it's possible they could have won.
     
  26. Canute87

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    Damn, i accidentally deleted the first quote.

    "Indeed, there are many sensitive people in the Uchiha. Almost all the ones who experience strong feelings are captured by darkness and turn evil. The deeper the darkness becomes, the more powerful the more powerful their eyes get, and it is impossible to handle them"

    This not in reference to the three tomoe sharingan. But the radical change the uchihas undergo when they are consumed by hatred.three tomoe sharingan is a standard amongst them all.

    If he made reference to Madara of all people that clearly goes beyond it.
     
  27. dergeist

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    There's nothing more accurate than facts.



    Except they weren't and secondly being held for a moment allows blitzing so it's GG.

    Stop talking nonsense, the most talented clan is the Uchiha. Versatility is all nonsense since nothing is more versatile than what the Sharingan grants. As for the puppeteer, she was a master medic and they excel past all I chakra control including your hyped Senju.

    Nonsense, Indra was the spiritual energy, powerful chakra, eyes and talent of Hogaromo. And Ashura was the body, Hogaromo gave him RSM and all he managed to do was stalemate Indra and die alongside him.

    No he was able to match Indra with RSM a power given by Hogaromo and even then he died against Indra.


    No he wasn't a super genius stop making up such lame excuses. He was talented like any Uchiha would be, however when he went MS he was overcome by it. Even before that the 3T was unrivalled in combat.

    Of course the 3T is the power the Senju can't match unless the Uchiha is nerfed. Which is why Tobirama used the collective known the Uchiha awaken a power the Senju can't match. He didn't save a few Uchiha he used the all encompassing term the Uchiha.


    No maed Senju weren't mentioned only the Uchiha were. The point was no named(the average) Uchiha could put people in genjutsu and that's why they required two people to fight.

    Kakashi was talented, but he's no match for an Uchiha. His chakra drain would fuck him up and a fake is no match for the real deal. Obito jumped leagues upon the awakening of the Sharingan from being a cry baby fodder.


    No Itachi trained with Shisui and was in the ANBU, and Sasuke confirmed Itachi was above the Uchiha even in Shuriken skill for this reason.

    Yes, and no. Being in the AnBu allows exposure to other things. The Uchiha were kept isolated as the police force to limit them by Tobirama.

    Itachi was talented, however Shisui was rated higher.

    That's from Itachi Shinden. Fugaku was also known as wicked eyed Fugaku and Itachi feared he couldn't beat him.

    Nah, those countries were already fucked. The Uchiha were just that strong relative to the rest of Konoha that they could fuck them.

    That's a bogus fanboy excuse, with no group ding in reality. Kybu attack, mass casualties, loss of ninja, the loss of the 4th Hokage, the loss of the Uchiha, yet nobody attacked Konoha.

    The Uchiha would've solod the rest fo the clans, but you're right there wouldnt have been an open war. It was more of a kidnap Sarutobi and get him toa gree terms to avoid or minimise killing people. Also that assumption that the village would fight the Uchiha is quite farfetched.

    Not with their talentless fodder.


    It is in reference to the 3T and I'll post the scans. The grammar and use of the word the Uchiha, bot a few Uchiha, itself should tell you that.

    Spoiler:






    And the 3T Sharingan is shown in all cases, even when Madara is shown. Tobirama even goes onto say there were many sensitive individuals and almost all were taken in. He's clearly referring to the 3T Sharingan as the MS was only in a couple of individuals. You can't really get any clearer than that.
     
  28. Canute87

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    Funny you say that because i spent time and went back through the chapters and understood something. You posted the same translation to Tobirama's words as i did with viz because something didn't make sense.

    Tobirama: "The Sharingan taps into the power of that person's heart, rapidly increasing his or her strength... ...Along with the power of their hate...

    There were many sensitive individuals among the Uchiha... And nearly all who were exposed to strong emotions were taken by darkness and feel to evil.

    The deeper the darkness gets, the greater the ocular powers also become, until the person can no longer be stopped... Just like Madara.

    Madara is clearly the reference point here, the whole idea of can no longer be stopped has NOTHING to do with the fact they cannot be DEFEATED. Why? You saw Madara actually defeated what they couldn't stop was his hatred from spiraling more and more out of control. That is exactly what tobirama meant.



    Hashirama's father fought against madara's father who also had three tomoe sharingan. He was not shown the superior.



    I didn't hype Senju, Kishimoto did, Kishi also proved they were on par on multiple occasions. Fact of the matter is you can't let go of your uchiha fangaism because you can't accept that there was a clan that rivaled the uchiha when they steamed from the same brothers.

    Yes they stalemated, Uchiha and Senju are rivals and neither could completely beat the other AM i missing something here?

    Sasuke was a very talented Uchiha. This cannot be up for debate this is just ridiculous.

    Well the whole notion of them having power they can't match has been dubunked. Madara was defeated, uchihas were killed, constantly. Madara's father did not overpower Hashirama's.

    Once again you keep using chiyo as a standard and not a clan that rivaled them in power. You saw the fights over the course of the past chapters. No point did you see two senjus having to fight a single uchiha, and NEVER was that stated among the the senju clan members.


    He has no match for Itachi. They all dead now so sadly there's nothing more that be said.


    Tobirama was dead for a long time. The whole notion of letting uchiha into the Anbu would not fly with tobirama so they had access to the skills.


    Time.

    It was a logical reasoning to be uncertain if you couldn't outright kill someone. That has nothing to do with fugakau being so overly powerful. Just Itachi being cautious



    The kyuubi attack wasn't a televised event, it happened in the space of a few hours in one night. When the uchiha kicked the bucket It didn't exaclty trigger the other nations to immediately attack either.


    Kill or be killed. They weren't going to sit down and let that happen. the other clans outnumber the uchiha all with the speicifc skills. open war would not make the uchihas come out the victor.

    A coup is not indicative of superiority. It is a smart intelligent way to achieve a result with the least casualties on your end.

    I mean i mock the uchiha clan's demise on a constant basis to itachi's skills but there's no fucking way those two could have pulled off what they did had the uchihas expected it. So just to be clear.






    The reference to the three tomoe sharingan was done BEFORE the introduction to Madara . The hatred and how it warps the chakra was the reference to MADARA and the uchiha not the three tomoe sharingan.
     
  29. dergeist

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    I told you the Uchiha were plot nerfed so the senju could comete.


    Kishi did, however it makes no sense outside of plot nerf and Tobirama is clear.


    No shit, the Uchiha were plot nerfed.

    Well it is since, he didn't beat Itachi with talent.

    It's like you forgot the whole argument was about whether the Uchiha were plot nerfed or not. And the answer is clearly yes as they wouldn't just lose.

    It's like you're ignoring that medics have the best chakra control? So Chiyo is a valid source for the rule of 2. And yes the Uchiha were plot nerfed for the Senju to rival them.



    What are you on about? Obito jumped up beyond Kakashi from being a useless fodder from amongst the Uchiha clan, just by awakening the 2T. So an average or talented Uchiha would jump leagues above Kakashi.

    No, the reason itachi was allowed to join the ANBU was because Danzo twisted Hiruzen's arm. That has nothing to do with Tobirama's will not being in full effect. Danzo wanted to use Itachi against the Uchiha.


    No Itachi admitted he couldn't beat his father, Fugaku was clearly stronger. Fugaku just didn't want to kill his own son. You should read the novels or re-read them.

    Yeah, because nobody was aware about it, not even enemy nations. Get real man, the point was that none of those event triggered an external invasion, meaning invasion wasn't an option for other nation and that was false hype.


    Again, you're assuming the Uchiha were planning on killing the clans which is false. I see the clans siding with the uchiha against the elders to maintain the stability and peace of Konoha. They wouldn't want to fight and destroy the village.

    Yes, and it is. Only those with superior power can enact it.

    Well yeah, Tobi was like a Rokudo without the Rinnegan. But I'm sure even he couldnt kill all of those members with them expecting it.

    The reference to a power the senju can't rival is made first. It's explained how this power comes about and then the 3 T Sharingan is shown. It's clear the 3T sharingan is being referenced here. Then it goes onto show Madara and mentions many Uchiha are sensitive and almost all give into the darkness. And we know only Madara and his bro awakened the MS so the reference is clearly to the 3T Sharingan, otherwise the word many being lost to the darkness and Tobirama witnessing it makes no sense. You should accept the unrivalled power is the 3T, and the only reason it was rivalled was because of Uchiha plot nerf.

    Anyway, that's me done with the repetition.
     
  30. Canute87

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    Plot nerf :lmao

    Kishi specifically mentioned the capabilities of the clan which far surpassed anything chyio and her people were capable of and you call it as such.

    There was no other clan in this series that held up like the senju, but you believe what you want to believe.

    I won't waste time with such a cop out.



    Sasuke held up quite well, he held up in skills, he broke itachi's genjutsu.

    He had problems with itachi popped open the susan-O. Itachi was also going blind too and was sick. So that's all kinds of fucked up. But the MS is to blame for that.


    Uchiha lost and Senju lost. The dynamic was quite believable.

    Madara was capable of killing experienced senju members because of his talent, likewise he couldn't beat hashirama which meant Hashiram too could beat experienced Uchiha members (i mean whatever the hell experienced means)

    The typical uchiha can fight on even grounds with tyical senju

    Talented uchiha > average Senju
    Talented Senju > Average Uchiha

    Talented Uchiha are the ones who get grazy and acheive those igher levels of power through their emotions.

    Talented Senju are the likes of hashirama and his brother,

    It's a pretty realistic dynamic for a rival clan. and hashirmaa and madara where shown on even ground since the valley of the end battle when both statutes were erected in their greatness. No there's no reason their respective clans wouldn't boast similiar capabilites of strength.



    And Senju have great chakra control and shit tonne pool, strength stamina taijustu etc.

    There are considered the clan of a thousand skills. When a well versed senju opponent has a myriad of ways to attack an opponent he's quite a threat on even grounds to an uchiha with those eyes.

    It's like you are completely ignoring the value of high level of chakra, and control, with taijustu and ninjustu and even genustu against some eye power.


    Was planning to stop with this portion because i only really care about the senju
     
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