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What do you prioritize: Fandom or Canon?

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by Mizura, Nov 9, 2005.

What do you prioritize?

  1. Canon

    54 vote(s)
    45.4%
  2. Fandom

    25 vote(s)
    21.0%
  3. A bit of both or no opinion.

    40 vote(s)
    33.6%
  1. Mizura Meh

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    Edit: maybe I should put it in another, blunter way...

    Would you Stop supporting your favorite pairing or favorite whatever if it turned out to be against canon, and conversely, would you start supporting a pairing or whatever (like a person's gender), even if you hated if before, if it were to turn out canon?

    If you answered yes, then you favor canon over fandom.
    If you answered no, then it's the other way around.

    Edit 2: People still don't get it... For the last time I'm not asking you if you're going to stop reading the manga if what you want does not happen.

    I mean will You drop your preferences in what you Like, just because they are disproved. Will you Stop liking SasuSaku or NaruSaku or NaruHina entirely because they don't happen, or will you shrug and continue enjoying the related fanclubs and fanworks? For those who already prefer crack pairings, thus things that are already non-canon, it's fandom over canon or a bit of both.

    Here's another example: I used to favour/like/whatever ShikaTema over ShikaIno just because ShikaTema is canon and ShikaIno is not. Though after a while, and thinking a bit about it, I figured I don't actually like ShikaTema in particular so now I'm neutral on ShikaTema vs ShikaIno. I don't show a preference.

    ============
    Before you start replying that the response is obvious, consider this:

    - hardcore ShikaIno fans are probably Fandom over Canon fans.

    - hardcore SasuNaru fans are probably Fandom over Canon fans.

    - hell any yaoi fan probably prioritizes Fandom over Canon. Same with those whose favorite pairings are crack pairings.

    - even for fans of "canon" pairings, the response isn't always clear cut: right now things are imo 50/50 between the possibilities of NaruSaku and SasuSaku (with NaruHina having a possibility of happening if SasuSaku happens), though frankly we're not here to discuss this. Let's just say that many NaruSaku fans would never like SasuSaku even if it does happen, and I'm pretty sure many NaruHina fans won't take it calmly if NaruSaku happens. Whatever happens, a big number of people will be disappointed, those who are disappointed would probably be content with the fandom though instead of converting to the proven "canon" pairing.

    - and many people like this or that character not because of how they're exclusively portrayed in canon, but because of their fandom potential, because they can imagine a whole story for them in fanfics or otherwise. I'm pretty sure that Iruka in yaoi doujins isn't always Quite the same as in manga. At least, not always. :huh Some people like rambling Neji most (even though he's stopped rambling), some people like psycho Gaara most (even though he isn't psycho anymore), etc.

    In particular, I first thought of this question long ago when someone said "Bah, I don't care what happens in the manga. From now on I'm considering Foxhound (a fanfic) as canon."

    So what about the rest of you? Personally I've come to the conclusion that I'm actually a Fandom over Canon fan. NaruSaku as I said is at 50/50, my favorite pairing has practically no chances of happening, my second favorite Hinata pairing (LeeHina) has exactly a 0% chance of happening, and I don't think I'll ever like the "opposing" pairings whether they happen or not. What do the rest of you think?
     
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  2. Chiru Naruto Forums Elitist

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    I actually don't know. As much as I'd like to say canon, I consider myself undecided. I love NaruHina, but I know the chances are very low. I also like TemShika and AsuKure, both of which are nearly canon already. I'm really on the fence.
     
  3. Odlam Team 7 4 Life

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    Canon is canon is canon. If you dont like it tough, thats all there is to it. Kishi's word is law. (Not directed at you Meh)

    If I was writing the thing, wed be reading about the adventures of Zabuza and Haku! Sadly they are long dead, but Im not gonna go pretend some that some fanfic has a higher priority then the actual manga. You just have to roll with the things you disagree with, and see where the story takes you.

    I dont think I could do this better then Kishi though, so I tend to just sit back and watch it all unfold, and content myself by saying either all my predictions are going to be right in the end, or I'll be wrong and be pleasantly surprised by something entirely different.

    Unless LeeHina really did happen. Then Id be angry. Very angry. :p

    The problem is that some people mistake things for canon that are not. Canon can be very fuzzy sometimes, and even things that are canon can be later contradicted, as they are revealed to either be lies or incomplete statements. Thats what plot twists are for.

    And other things are meant to be left ambiguous. Did anybody ever see the original ending of final fantasy 7? That was when I first discovered that the Japanese like endings that leave things up to the audience's imagination. So for some questions, there will never be a definitive final answer. This seems to carry over in alot of media and popular Japanese productions.
     
  4. Yasha Procreate

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    NaruXSasuXGaara love triangle, KakashiXGai, ChoujiXSakura, OroXManda, ...are all canons. So obviously I am a canon fan.:)
     
  5. Mizura Meh

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    You don't seem to get it at all. Of Course the actual manga has the upper word over the fandom, but some people don't Care. They don't care if SasuNaru won't ever happen but they'll still love it over a het pairing because they just do. They don't care if ShikaIno has already lost because they just like the idea a lot.

    In the Harry Potter fandom, the Harry x Hermione didn't convert to Harry x Ginny when Harry x Ginny turned out to be canon.

    In the end, it's just choosing one set of fiction over another.

    You might not, but the pairings that will happen won't necessarily be what everybody thinks is the most interesting one. There are certain aspects that can't be developed in a Shounen manga targetted at young teens that can only be developed in fandom. You want angst and decadence? Sorry, ain't happening. There are some really good angst fanfics around though. You want yaoi? Sorry, ain't happening either. There are still the fanworks though, both fanfics and fanart, and frankly some fanarts >>>> the black and white manga.

    I was relatively bored with the last arc. I liked how Sakura was developed but darn it was slow. In the meantime though, I derived a lot more fun through the fandoms, whether it is looking for fanarts or reading fanfics. It just happens: a fandom can go well beyond the canon.

    :laugh

    Orochimaru x his harem! :laugh

    :iik
     
  6. Razgriez Banned

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    I probably won't enjoy it but it will eventually wear on me to the point where I dont care. I really just prefer whats canon over fandom. If Naru/Hina happens I think it will be a kick in the face for the series but Ill just accept it as real because well... it would be!

    Well... actually Im probably more of a bit of both. I think...
     
  7. FitzChivalry Person of Internet

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    I hate being indecisive, but I went with both. Shikamaru and Temari seem canon to me, but NaruSaku could be both.

    And the fact that fandom only has 1 vote is crap, but that'll change soon enough. I should expect that to be in the lead before long, unless someone thinks that shit like NaruIno actually has a chance of happening.:nono
     
  8. Odlam Team 7 4 Life

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    I dunno, to me if its not the official series, I dont see any real point. Of course the story is fiction, but there is only one official source.

    Course I've never seen the point of fanfiction the deviates completely from the original material anyways. When I find characters I like, I want to know what happens to them. Thats what drives the story for me. How do they grow, how do they react, how do they fight, what are thier personalities, what are thier traits. Who are they, where did they come from, and where are they going.

    But the off the wall fanfics are just pointless in my eyes. Its like fictional fiction, if thats even possible. They have nothing to do with what happens to these characters in the actual stories, and in some cases, they almost come across like a desperate attempt to compensate for a story not going the way the fan wanted it to.

    Either take it as a whole or send it back, but dont take a hacksaw to it and butcher it. Wow im biased in my opinion here!

    On a side note, this is why I stopped trying to predict too far ahead. Most disappointments are caused by people forming pet theories only to have the story take a different direction, resulting in disappointment. If you just sit back and let the story come to you instead of trying to rush ahead to meet it fifty volumes down the line, it seems much more enjoyable.
     
  9. Mizura Meh

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    Pff. That or people can't admit that they actually unconsciously favour fandom over canon. Some people claim that their favourite pairing Will happen anyway so it's irrelevant, but save for ShikaTema, All pairings are up in the air. Unless you're neutral where pairings are concerned, meaning no fanclub, no reading fanworks, no nada, you probably favour fandom.

    As for ShikaTema: yes, it's canon, but it's not always been so and some people prefer it for fandom reasons rather than canon reasons. I've heard someone say "I like ShikaTema. I can't stand ShikaIno." Well at one point, ShikaIno was still possible. Would that person still "not stand" ShikaIno if it were canon?

    Fiction is fiction. You're a fool if you believe one set of fiction to somehow be somehow magically more real. From an outsider's point of view, they're just stories.

    And frankly, some fanfics I've read are a Lot deeper than the manga will ever be. And some fanarts I've seen are a lot more beautiful than what the manga will ever come up with. So I enjoy them more, especially when the manga is being slow. The canon manga might be the backbone of the fandom, but fandom has much more liberties.
     
  10. Criminal NF TRIPLE OG

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    I hate pairings, all of them, and could really care less. Thats not to knock anyone who likes the pairings though, do you. I look at it as art and the best part is experiencing the artist's vision, so If Kishimoto doesnt do it, Im not with it. I do however love original sroty-lines i.e. roleplays, but thats because its interactive, on the other hand i hate fanfics. hmmmmm....seems i have some mixed views on this subject.......hmmmmmm
     
  11. Odlam Team 7 4 Life

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    Hoozah, I can honestly claim neutrality! Although I do think NaruHina will happen, I wouldnt go slit my wrist if NaruSaku happened. Just of the two, if I had to bet money, Id definately go with the first. Id say 2:1 odds in favor of NaruHina simply because the argument has enough evidence on its own, and then you toss in the also likely possibility of SasuSaku (which is almost 100% in my mind simply from the story telling perspective - you dont get a whole issue declaring your love for nothing to come of it later in the story). And of course is that happens, then NaruHina is a shoo in.

    I try to base this stuff off logical objective opinions, but its not like anyone can actually tell when they are being effected by personal opinion.

    To many people, thier fandom = cannon, and everyone else is simply too blind to see the obvious signs.
     
  12. Mizura Meh

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    I'd say you're letting your bias get to you. :oh What argument? Naruto and Hinata have interacted less than 2 hours in their entire lives, and it's still as one-sided as ever. And it doesn't fit into the NaruSakuSasu tragedy, which Is canon. I'd give 50% to NaruSaku, 50% to SasuSaku and 40% at most to NaruHina as possibilities.

    The story won't ever completely Focus on NaruHina, if only because she isn't in the same team so won't be a constant part of the story. It Has however, constantly focused on the relation between the various members of team 7.
     
  13. Master Scorpion UG's High Priest

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    I like canon relationships....
    And there's no love triangle between Naruto,Sakura,and Hinata...that fake love triagle happens by Narufans..
    the most canon and official love triangle in narufandom are between Sasuke,Sakura,and Ino or Sasuke,Naruto,and Sakura!!!
     
  14. Crush! Banned

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    Most fans (Both Japanese and American) seem to realize that SasuSaku and NaruHina will happen. Why it's flown over some people's heads I can't say, but you don't seem to understand whatsoever why you are quite outnumbered in people who believe certain pairings will happen, and I find that weird.

    And there is no NaruSakuSasu "tragedy". I'd say you're letting your fandom bias interfere in canon right there.
     
  15. Odlam Team 7 4 Life

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    Well here was my breakdown taking any pairing just by itself

    Id want to weight NaruHina higher, but to be objective well say 50/50 - it wont really matter in the end though, ill explain my reasoning.

    NaruHina 50% NaruSaku 50% SasuSaku 90%

    But because the SasuSaku is so high in my mind, NaruSaku almost cannot happen, and NaruHina was weighted equally to being with with NaruSaku.

    So I guess the main key to my firm belief in NaruHina over NaruSaku is the fact that NaruSaku is impossible in my mind. It simply cant happen, because SasuSaku is almost a certainty to me. The evidence for that pairing is >>>>>>>>>> the evidence for either NaruHina or NaruSaku, and makes the choice between the two extremely easy.

    In order to create the NaruSaku pairing, you have to break two other popular pairings apart, NaruHina and SasuSaku. I just dont see it happening.

    So it goes from like 50/50, to NaruHina 90%, NaruSaku 10%

    And as a total personal opinion, I think the future arc with Hinata will deeply add further to the NaruHina progression.
     
  16. Lullaby my greatest treasure

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    I'm probably a fandom over canon thingy..

    I like ShikaTema, But I love ShikaIno. :spaz

    I love SasuSaku and NaruHina and they have a chance of happening. :tem

    I like NaruSaku, but I prefer SasuSaku and NaruHina over it. >.<;

    And of course, I love SasuNaru but I don't think that would become canon. :laugh
     
  17. FitzChivalry Person of Internet

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    I agree.
    Riiiight....:sclap If that's what you truly believe. If that's not fandom on your part, I dunno what is.
     
  18. Mizura Meh

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    Really. Then how come NaruHina is even less popular on the Japanese side than KibaHina? While popularity is not a measure of canon-ness, it does show that people don't automatically assume and support NaruHina in Japan, unlike in the western fandom where NaruHina seems to occupy 80% of the fandom.

    Someone once told me that Japanese yaoi fans consider NaruSaku to be canon. :oh

    While I'm not saying that it's impossible, it Is far from 100% certain like many NaruHina fans I've come across seem to think.

    The Japanese fandom by the way, seems to be by Far a situation of Fandom over Canon. The most popular pairings there by far are Yaoi couplings, and I'm pretty sure they don't actually believe that KakaNaru will happen. :oh
     
  19. Duality Timediver

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    When I started reading the manga I was 100% its going to end NaruSaku with Sasuke and Sakura best friends or something.I mean if someone looks carefully the first half of the wave country arc you'll see tons of hints pointing that way.Sasuke opening up to Sakura and telling her his plans showing her friendly trust,Sakura:"What is this feeling?'' which was obviously not just admiration,Sakura blushing like crazy for Naruto and the opposite and the 'You are so cool Sasuke-kun.' pointing that it was obviously a mere crush,strong crush but nothing serious.

    Kishimoto in my oppinion at start was planning the good boy loves girl that likes like every other girl bad boy but later actually loving the good boy.I think he changed his mind later though.I think he started to look away from NaruSaku from the moment Naruto saw Haku and started blushing and said in the end when he found out he is a boy that he is even cuter from Sakura.From that moment until now without missing a single hint and even looking at the japanese words in crucial 'pairing' moments I don't know if NaruHina or SasuSaku will happen but I strongly believe Naruto and Sakura will remain best friends drawing admiration from each other and caring for each other.Kishimoto will use it to keep things 'unpredictable' between the pairings but honestly don't get your hopes up ppl.

    I don't wanna make an enormous post explaining all the hints until 282 but I don't wanna get boring.If someone wants a discussion especially if its NaruSaku supporter feel free to pm me.

    On the thread question I prefer fandom.
     
  20. Crush! Banned

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    Well, Naruto pairings in particular seem to be unpopular among the Japanese, so I dunno if the lack of NaruHina particularly points to that pairing being disliked more there than here. He just isn't really paired up with people. I do know that SasuSaku dwarfs NaruSaku (Or Naru Anything) by quite a landslide, though. During my last Doujinshi search, I came upon just about 100+ different SasuSaku pairing doujinshi, and about 10 NaruSaku...

    But yeah, Japanese fandom is more fandom oriented. That's why they have things like Comiket (Basically just a big doujinshi festival more than anything else...)
     
  21. Master Scorpion UG's High Priest

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    Just shut up...
    The relationship between Neji and Hinata attracts many japanese viewers rather than other nations
    look how many fansites about NejiHina but the most popular is SasuSaku and SasuNaru..
    1.NaruHina = 77 sites
    2.KibaHina = 83 sites
    3.NejiHina = 125 sites
    4.SasuSaku = 219 sites
    5.NaruSaku = 71 sites
    6.SasuNaru = 529 sites
    just look in this site
     
  22. Kyuubi Naruto Hounds of Justice

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    This has to be one of the only things that I agree with Crush on. I agree with his post.
     
  23. Mizura Meh

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    You're kidding right? :oh

    You're kidding right? :oh SasuNaru and KakaNaru are both Very popular. Actually, KakaNaru seems more popular than KakaSasu. Now that was a surprise.

    Well yes. It's good-looking and angsty. But SasuNaru dwarfs SasuSaku.

    Kahni Sakura - English Translated

    Here's a NaruSearch breakdown: (number of sites)
    SasuNaru: 529. (NaruSasu: 136)
    KakaIru: 438.
    KakaNaru: 335.
    SasuSaku: 219.
    KakaSasu: 226.
    ShikaNaru: 170. (huh?)
    ShikaIno: 141.
    NejiHina: 125.
    ShikaTema: 114.
    KakaSaku: 109.
    ItaNaru: 104.
    GenHaya: 103.
    KibaShika: 90. (huh? x2)
    KibaHina: 84.
    NaruHina: 77.
    NejiTen: 75.
    NaruSaku: 71.

    As you can see, the Japanese fandom is a case of fandom over canon, with NaruHina being a lot less commonly embraced than in the English fandom (for crying out loud 60% of the fics on ff.net seem to be NaruHina).

    Edit: Ah okay, someone else posted number already. ^^;

    There is a NaruSakuSasu tragedy. It's obvious that Kishimoto focuses on the relation between the different team 7 members, first on the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke, then on Sakura's increasing role between the two. It's not necessarily a Romantic story, but the whole story so far revolved around team 7, more specifically the Naruto and Sasuke rivalry, with Sakura thrown in.

    In fact, the Naruto and Sasuke relationship seems to be a typical "rival" situation, so the whole story will forever be led on by it. Since Sakura and to a lesser degree Kakashi are in the same team, they'll be dragged along throughout the whole story.
     
  24. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh

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    Popularity of pairings in Japanese fandom is based entirely on how pretty the characters look together. That's why Naruto gets marginalized except when he's with Sasuke. And just because a majority of people believe a pairing will happen doesn't make them right when the actual manga is pointing the other way.
     
  25. Odlam Team 7 4 Life

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    Heres the same list with the i*c*st and gay relationships taken out of it

    And the point I think he is making is the first pairing, SasuSaku, invalidates the possibility of NaruSaku happening. Taken on its own merits, the NaruHina NaruSaku pairings may be fairly equal, but the presense of SasuSaku totally tips it in the direction of NaruHina overall.

    SasuSaku: 219. <---- This is going to happen for sure
    ShikaIno: 141.
    ShikaTema: 114.
    KakaSaku: 109.
    KibaHina: 84.
    NaruHina: 77. <---- Almost a sure thing if SasuSaku happens
    NejiTen: 75.
    NaruSaku: 71. <---- Impossible if SasuSaku happens obviously


    All in my own personal opinion of course
     
  26. Crush! Banned

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    I dunno, I consider the main character in those pairings to be the one who's name comes first. For example, SasuNaru is popular. NaruSasu, is not. That's just me. He is only that popular in those pairings because Kaka and Sasu pairings in particular are so popular. Once again, that's just me.

    And I highly disagree with their story being a "tragedy". There is nothing entirely tragic about it, In my opinion.

    Exactly.
     
  27. Mizura Meh

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    If you want to go by that, the pairings that will happen are:
    SasuSaku
    ShikaIno
    NejiTen
    and KibaHina. :tem

    Then replace "tragedy" with intrigue. :notrust If the end of part 1 with the Naruto and Sasuke clash, plus the fact that both Naruto and Sakura trained these 2.5 years Exclusively to save their teammate isn't convincing, then I don't know what is. This isn't a dominantly love story, but a dominantly "underdog achieving his dreams" story, and Naruto here wants the acknowledgement of his brother and rival Sasuke above all right now.
     
  28. Odlam Team 7 4 Life

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    Nah they wont leave Naruto single, and hopefully it will actually be a female they hook him up with. So for the purpose of this discussion, it falls to Hinata or Sakura, and Sakura is ruled out by default since she is going to be hooked up with Sasuke.

    Were getting nowhere though, and weve totally derailed this thread.
     
  29. Marsala The Ice-Cream Man Cometh

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    Your theory is invalidated by ShikaIno being more popular than ShikaTema. Also, NejiTen is popular but the much more likely LeeTen didn't even make the list. It's all based on prettiness. SasuSaku fits the profile of a shoujo relationship between an angsty lead male and a desperate heroine, leading to its popularity, but Naruto is a shounen manga with Naruto as hero, Sakura as lead female, and Sasuke as Naruto's competition. Sakura confessed to Sasuke out of sheer desperation and was brutally rejected; since then, she hasn't had a single romantic thought about Sasuke but has been seeing Naruto in an increasingly romantic light. The fans who went for "obvious" couples like ShikaIno just haven't seen it yet.
     
  30. Odlam Team 7 4 Life

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    Well heres an updated list with only the ones relevent to this discussion - and what Im saying is

    NaruHina: 77.
    NaruSaku: 71.

    These two at this point in the manga would be hard to predict between at this point in time, but

    SasuSaku: 219.

    This pairing is not. And because this pairing involves Sakura, it makes the first choice much easier.


    But like I said, I think Im being extremely logical and taking pretty much all the manga signs into account, but to you guys I simply havent woken up and seen all the obvious signs that Im completely missing.

    Im gonna put it in my siggy though, mise well let it read loud and clear. If im wrong, oh well, Ill have to eat my pie. And if Im right, at least I can say I didnt bandwagon and change my opinion at the last second.
     
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