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What is socialism? What are examples of socialist countries?

Nello

dabonair
The word has started to lose its meaning to me, so i'm curious how others interpret the word and what their opinion is thereof.
 

Kroczilla

Well-Known Member
Public control of means of production.

My view of socialism is that it should work as a supplement of capitalism. Both systems applied to their true form would result in anarchy.
 

Tiffany

Favorites X Mafia Winner
Socialism is where everyone own the means of production, but I own an essential service such as the fire department and put out house fires in exchange for their portion of ownership in the means of production.
 

mr_shadow

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Moderator
In the Communist Manifesto (1848), Marx provides a short, one-page sketch of what he thinks a Socialist society might look like:

We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class to win the battle of democracy.

The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionising the mode of production.

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c.

When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organised power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organise itself as a class, if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class.

In place of the old bourgeois society, with its classes and class antagonisms, we shall have an association, in which the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all.


This is, as far as I know, the nearest Marx came to giving a positive blueprint of what he imagined Socialism to be like. Most of his other writings (including most of the Communist Manifesto) are about criticizing Capitalism and explaining why it is doomed to fall. Marx acknowledged that he was not a prophet and that he couldn't presume to know all the details of what would come after Capitalism.
 
Idk about Bernie but in Scandinavia, wealth inequality is high while income inequality is low. So it would be ideal for someone like Bezos with low income but high capital gains. If that's what Bernie wants too then I think you would have a lot in common.
Let's do that in here.


From what I read he wants to tax what I said.

Built-in limitations in the proposal mean that Amazon owner Jeff Bezos, the richest person in the U.S., would allegedly make a one-time payment of $42.8 billion. Estimates place Bezos' net worth at $185.8 billion.

September 2019, Sanders tweeted "Billionaires should not exist." At the time, Sanders proposed a wealth tax that included the entire net worth of individuals in the billionaire class as opposed to just their income. Sanders' tax on "extreme wealth" would have worked on a sliding scale, ending with an 8 percent tax on married couples with a net worth over $10 billion.
 

Nello

dabonair
Let's do that in here.


From what I read he wants to tax what I said.

Built-in limitations in the proposal mean that Amazon owner Jeff Bezos, the richest person in the U.S., would allegedly make a one-time payment of $42.8 billion. Estimates place Bezos' net worth at $185.8 billion.

September 2019, Sanders tweeted "Billionaires should not exist." At the time, Sanders proposed a wealth tax that included the entire net worth of individuals in the billionaire class as opposed to just their income. Sanders' tax on "extreme wealth" would have worked on a sliding scale, ending with an 8 percent tax on married couples with a net worth over $10 billion.
Ah I see. Thanks
 

dergeist

Well-Known Member
Control of means of production by the state, however that's not possible without infringing on individual rights or at the expense of another or voluntarism. It usually requires mobocracy or authoritarian governments using laws, and force to legalise theft etc.
 
Control of means of production by the state, however that's not possible without infringing on individual rights or at the expense of another or voluntarism. It usually requires mobocracy or authoritarian governments using laws, and force to legalise theft etc.
Bingo!

@dergeist Do you know about Daniel Hanan?
 
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mr_shadow

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Moderator
As for examples of such states, there are currently 16 countries that claim to be Socialist or Communist in their constitutions:

Communist (Marxist-Leninist) states
China
Cuba
Laos
North Korea (removed constitutional reference to Communism in the 1990s, but is still widely counted in this group)
Vietnam

Socialist states
Algeria
Bangladesh
Eritrea
Guinea-Bissau
Guyana
India
Nepal
Nicaragua
Portugal (!)
Sri Lanka
Tanzania


Interestingly, while Venezuela is often referred to as a Socialist state by the American media, there is no mention of Socialism or Communism in the country's constitution, although it has been ruled by a Socialist party for most of the past 20 years.
 

RemChu

◑ ᎶᏁᎧᏕᏖᎥፈ ☩
Use words, say it in your own fucking words.

If you have to post 5 videos to make a point. YOU HAVE NOTHING OF VALUE TO SAY. Just talk. brah. This is a text based forum.
 


Global media (especially in the US) likes to portray Norway and Scandinavia as socialist. But “cuddly capitalism” is a much more accurate term. Let's take a look at the truth of the Nordic model.

 
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mr_shadow

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Moderator
As for examples of such states, there are currently 16 countries that claim to be Socialist or Communist in their constitutions:

Communist (Marxist-Leninist) states
China
Cuba
Laos
North Korea (removed constitutional reference to Communism in the 1990s, but is still widely counted in this group)
Vietnam

Socialist states
Algeria
Bangladesh
Eritrea
Guinea-Bissau
Guyana
India
Nepal
Nicaragua
Portugal (!)
Sri Lanka
Tanzania


Interestingly, while Venezuela is often referred to as a Socialist state by the American media, there is no mention of Socialism or Communism in the country's constitution, although it has been ruled by a Socialist party for most of the past 20 years.

In his book Asian Drama (1968), Swedish economist Gunnar Myrdal points out that "Socialism" was kind of a buzzword in post-colonial countries during the Cold War. Proclaiming that the newly independent state was to be "Socialist" mostly meant that the government would (ostensibly) be working in the interests of the people who lived there, rather than for some foreign Imperialist power. It didn't necessarily imply a Soviet-style one-party state or command economy.
 
socialism is state owned production.
which is something people here want.
so rather than Ford making your cars, they'll be made by the government, and whatever the government would say would go. perhaps airbags get dropped cause they're expensive and if you followed the rules anyway they wouldn't be needed...but i digress.

capitalism is the "private (individual's) control of the means of production."
socialism is the "public-sector (state) control of the economy."

for those who buy into socialism, you are not the public sector, the government is the public sector because it's affairs are made public knowledge.
you are a private citizen and so have the ability to open up a new privately owned duck farm at your leisure, you would simply have to do your due diligence when it comes to paperwork and proof of concept, as well as generating capital.

socialism in the modern interpretation seeks to eliminate the responsibility and autonomy of the private individual. capitalism permits you responsibility and autonomy but the onus rests on the individual to take up the task that comes with being granted responsibility and autonomy, namely capital generation, hence capitalism.
someone mentioned creditism as the evolution of capitalism, that is correct, capital generation now is essentially how well one can manage their credit, ergo how well one can manage their debt.
if the state is to control everything then it would debauch the currency, reprimand all privately owned assets, and eliminate debt. ergo the autonomy provided to private citizens would no longer exist as the private sector will have become the public sector.
this is happening slowly in real time but i digress, probably switches gears soon.
 

RemChu

◑ ᎶᏁᎧᏕᏖᎥፈ ☩
Yeah, I want some to work for their information.

Google multiple sources, read them like in school.

Too much twitter in this section.
In any academic or writing capacity you should give a source if it's not your own words. It's just proper etiquette. If you wrote something you would want credit for it.
 

Island

In the Sun
Moderator
Yeah, I want some to work for their information.

Google multiple sources, read them like in school.

Too much twitter in this section.
Mider T is correct. That's literally plagarism.

It's one thing when somebody forgets to link an article at the end of a post, but if you outright steal an article from somewhere, we're going to delete it.
 
It's one thing when somebody forgets to link an article at the end of a post, but if you outright steal an article from somewhere, we're going to delete it.
How many papers did you write until now?
Tell me how am I posting an article, btw not the entire article on a manga forum similar to plagiarism.

Did I attribute that article as I have written?

Plagiarism is the representation of another 's language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions as one's own .

Now please tell me where did I say that this was my text?


Yeah because you saw my signature for those words.
Do you understand this?

Pretty simple a document has that at the bottom.

The drafter of the paper ...etc.


I never said that was my paper and I did not publish to sell or get money ...
 
You came to the right place. Can't wait to watch the rest of the right-wingers on the forum tell us what Socialism is and how cultural marxism is destroying colleges and ruining their chance at getting laid.
I went to college. It was alright.:eatpizza
 

RemChu

◑ ᎶᏁᎧᏕᏖᎥፈ ☩
How many papers did you write until now?
Tell me how am I posting an article, btw not the entire article on a manga forum similar to plagiarism.

Did I attribute that article as I have written?

Plagiarism is the representation of another 's language, thoughts, ideas, or expressions as one's own .

Now please tell me where did I say that this was my text?



Do you understand this?

Pretty simple a document has that at the bottom.

The drafter of the paper ...etc.


I never said that was my paper and I did not publish to sell or get money ...
Why are you arguing with a mod when you are clearly in the wrong?

Just accept it and move on. You are just making yourself look foolish here.
 
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