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Why couldnt Nagato use Susanoo

Discussion in 'New Leaf' started by Shazam, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. Shazam ⚡⚡⚡

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    The Rinnegan is a natural progression of the Sharingan. Even though he wasn't an Uchiha neither was Kakashi with DMS.
     
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  2. Architect of the Works of Beauty

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    He seemingly didn't have the abilities of sharingan. And for having Susanoo you have to awaken it yourself and to use it without the MS you need be an Uchiha.
     
  3. Buuhan ⋄ C I N D E R ⋄

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    Apparently you gotta awaken it and at that point it’s yours forever. Seeing how Madara awakened it prior logic would dictate it couldn’t be passed onto nagato. Could be wrong, but I think it’s detailed in a databook somewhere.
     
  4. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    He simply didn't know he could. If he knew, he probably would've used the underlying ocular powers he had.

    Its just like how Kakashi could warp people to Kamui-land or warp there himself. However, because he didn't know about it he never did it. When Obito revealed they both have the same power, then Kakashi was able to just use it.

    Just like Naruto didn't know he could fly as a faux Juubi Jinchuriki until he did it by accident, or how Sasuke didn't know he could extinguish Amaterasu until he tried.

    Basically to use all their powers, the character needs to know they can use it to begin with.
     
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  5. The Death & The Strawberry Better Dayz

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    Kishi asspulled the whole "Madara's original eyes shit to make Madara relevant later in the war

    The entire premise of him not being able to use limbo because "hes not the original wielder" is stupid asf though

    Kakashi wasn't the original weilder of Obito's sharingan yet he was still able to use Kamui(albeit later)
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
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  6. cringe lord Banned

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    He didn't have Uchiha blood
     
  7. Ultrafragor Well-Known Member

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    Because Kishi had not yet decided you could turn a Sharingan into a Rinnegan.

    Also, since this was a large plot twist later, he couldn't have Nagato do anything Sharingan related to spoil it.

    Explaining it from an in-universe level, Madara and Sasuke can use Sharingan jutsu with their Rinnegan because, regardless of what eyes are in their head, they have Sharingan chakra within their own body that can be routed through those eyes.

    Nagato has no Uchiha chakra, so all he can utilize is the Rinnegan chakra active in the eyes when they were given to him.
     
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  8. Itachiisinvincible Well-Known Member

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    Nagato was never trained in using Sharingan techniques.
     
  9. WorldsStrongest Son of the Sun God

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    For the same reason Kakashi couldnt turn off his sharingan into Obitos natural baby blues

    2nd hand owners of Dojutsu cant turn it off...Or, put another way, they cant DOWNGRADE their borrowed eyes.

    Meaning, Nagato could only use the abilities built into whatever stage of eye he was given or what would be a step beyond that. But considering his eyes were given to him as Rinnegan...There was no next step for him to eventually activate.

    Susanoo is a Sharingan ability, not a Rinnegan one, hence why Nagato couldnt use it.

    And borrowed rinnegan, or otherwise offbrand rinnegan, are nerfed inherently as stated multiple times.
     
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  10. DaVizWiz Well-Known Member

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    The Rinnegan had nothing to do with Sharingan at the stage of it's introduction.

    The EMS wasn't even a dojutsu yet.

    Put simply the author didn't plan it, and ignored it when he made the connection later on.
     
  11. cringe lord Banned

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    do you research into every comment you make?
     
  12. DaVizWiz Well-Known Member

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    As far as I recall Rinnegan don't deactivate period, doesn't matter if it's a donor or the original.

    They're completely morphed eyes not a temporary mutation, Edo Madara's base eyes are Rinnegan.

    When have you seen any Rinnegan user revert to the human eye?

    As far as de-powering Sharingan - Kakashi did it numerous times, so did Danzo - when they activated MS, and then reverted back to 3-toma.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  13. WorldsStrongest Son of the Sun God

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    Madara could swap back and forth between Rinnegan and Sharingan

    Sauce could also deactivate his
    I dont have to most of the time tho on occasion everyone needs a refresher or have overlooked something

    This series really isnt that complex tho...Its intended for 13 year olds

    And ive been following it as a hobby since i was like 8 if not younger...So its safe to say ive picked up a thing or two
     
  14. DaVizWiz Well-Known Member

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    I recall Sasuke closing his eye after it is on cooldown - I never recall seeing him with two human eyes.

    Even when taking a stroll it's still a Rinnegan.

    That is literally his eye now.

    Switching his eye to a Sharingan doesn't mean the Rinnegan isn't his eye - it means he mutated it again when he brought it down. If he deactivates all Jutsu and is taking a nap - his eye will be a Rinnegan.

    Hagoromo hasn't once appeared or been drawn with human eyes.

    It's not hard to understand. The Hyuga are born with inhumane eyes for the same reasons.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  15. WorldsStrongest Son of the Sun God

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    You literally just said its impossible for him to turn rinnegan off after attaining it...And hes blatantly shown without Rinnegan on and with 3T and EMS instead...

    So is Sauce

    Sooo
    Hasnt =/= Cant

    Itachi kept his Sharingan active 99% of his time on panel...Doesnt mean hes incapable of turning it off

    Hagoromo is also barely on panel
     
  16. DaVizWiz Well-Known Member

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    You're using the last anime movie photo?

    Okay, do you have a manga panel?

    Hagoromo was born with his Rinnegan - that is his eye - It's not an awakened technique.
     
  17. WorldsStrongest Son of the Sun God

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    The Last film thats canon :catshrug
    Aside from the instances i sited where Madara doesnt have Rinnegan active despite having the ability to use it at that juncture?

    No, as The Last hasnt been converted to Manga format ever
     
  18. DaVizWiz Well-Known Member

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    • Show me a panel of War Madara without Rinnegan or Sharingan
    • Show me a panel of Sasuke with his right eye not a Rinnegan
    • Show me a panel of Hagoromo without Rinnegan
    Canon, ergo the actual real universe written by the author, shows Sasuke strolling down the village walkway with Rinnegan activated for no reason and Sharingan deactivated, and while in combat - closing his eye when his Rinnegan powers are on cooldown.

    Even beyond the manga - When he's fighting Shin without Susano access, his eye is drawn perpetually with his hair covering it.. not once was it shown during cooldown... convenient.

    Why is it Sasuke closes his eye when it's no longer stable EVERYTIME? Because it's still a Rinnegan, and he's hiding it so it can re-stabilize. Just like Kakashi does with his Sharingan. You see Sasuke's Rinnegan still visisble above, it begins bleeding, and he discerns it's unusable. Notice it didn't deactivate, he choses to close it, every time, and blind an entire side of vision in the middle of combat - instead of just deactivating it.

    Because he can't deactivate a Rinnegan.

    Nobody can.

    It was heavily implied that eye was a permanent mutation or in the instance of purity (Hagoromo) - you are both with them as your human eyes.

    Your one photo from an animated picture doesn't overlap the author's clear intentions of a man with Hagoromo's eye, you know - the eyes that Hagoromo was born with, kind of similar to eyes that every Hyuga was born with (all have lifeless, gray shit balls that are identical to Kaguya and Hamura's - Byakugan users) and Uchiha are born with (soulless, blackened eyes that appear to be missing identity [A red sharingan they will awaken later]).
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  19. Lord Valgaav Hero boy

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    They weren't his eyes.
     
  20. Shazam ⚡⚡⚡

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    Kakashi didn't have his own either.
     
  21. Djomla Student

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    The first thing that came to my mind was brain chakra. Tobirama said something along the lines that when Uchiha awakes Shraingan a special chakra forms in their brain before. I always thought that is why Madara could use Susanoo without eyes. Because he still had "Sharingan chakra" in his brain. So maybe in order to use Susanoo you have to had awakened the chakra/double MS first and then used it. Simply transfering Rinnegan which was Sharingan before won't work cause you would lack that chakra in the brain.

    But then the problem is Kakashi. And his DMS Kamui Susanoo. He never awoke Sharingan originally so he too shouldn't have that brain chakra. Maybe it works the same with MS, too. Hr did awake that.

    I'll stop now. I'm blabbering.

    Simplest answer. Kishi didn't know what he was doing. He was pulling wierd stuff all over the war. Mayve he did same with Nagato.
     
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  22. Bookworm Well-Known Member

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    Normal Rinnegan's can't use Sharingan techniques.
     
  23. Klue The kingdom is mine

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    Same reason he didn't use Limbo, and Obito hadn't utilized the individual realm techniques.

    Kishi. :catskully



     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
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  24. BlinkST All is well in the kingdom

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    One of Madara’s clones deactivated Rinnegan in order to use EMS genjutsu on the Raikage:catshrug
     
  25. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    Were Madara's clones even made with the Rinnegan?
     
  26. Reviewing Logic (((((((((( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ͜ʖ ͡°) ͡°)))))))))) THE FINAL BOSS

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    are people forgetting that Madara did Susanoo without any eyes?
    I have similar thoughts as well

    but for the Kakashi bit what triggered him to have Susanoo while Nagato did not is that Obitio's chakra and mental state also entered Kakashi's body
     
  27. Munboy Dracule O'Brian Well-Known Member

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    FYI Kabuto didn't know Nagato had Madara's eyes, if he did that would've changed how he used Edo Nagato.
     
  28. Reviewing Logic (((((((((( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ͜ʖ ͡°) ͡°)))))))))) THE FINAL BOSS

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    I don't believe that is the case since when he developed Edo Madara he took into account the Hashi DNa and other modifications like the rinnegan

    which made Madara impressed with him

    therefore more then likely via Kabuto's info gathering he more then likely knew that Nagato's rinnegan was Madara's

    like how he knew Tobi wasn't really Madara

    also when doing edo tensei he made Itachi and Madara with Susanoo's so the ability of edo tensei just gives the ability of the user before their deaths

    so him knowing sharringan can become rinnegan via Madara, even if he didn't know it was Madara's eyes which likely he did via deduction

    he still would've known that those eyes were originally sharringan and more then likely had Susanoo with them


    my thoughts on the matter is again you need the chakra or something as well
     
  29. Klue The kingdom is mine

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    Which would suggest that Madara's Rinnegan was sleeping all those times he used the Susanoo. But as the picture I have posted shows, that does not have to be the case. Rinnegan can assist in its formation — debunking the notion that Rinnegan cannot exercise Sharingan skills.

    :drake


    Seriously, think about what you're saying here. If Sasuke drowned cats in Amaterasu finger-bang style, no sane mutha-fucka would go back, look at the following panel and think:





    Honestly, I'd smack a ninja in the face.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  30. Reviewing Logic (((((((((( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ͜ʖ ͡°) ͡°)))))))))) THE FINAL BOSS

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    you don't even understand what I am saying :blobwoah

    I am not arguing about this
    I am saying once you unlock Susanoo as someone who was BORN with the sharringan genes or whatever like the Uchiha

    then you have the ability regardless if your eyes are in your body or aren't in your body

    it is a power that is unlocked by the sharringan but likely uses the users chakra or whatever to do it afterwards

    so if I stole Sasuke's eyes I wouldn't have the Susanoo

    but Sasuke who is now eyeless would still have it


    the rinnegan is the origin of the sharringan so if you upgraded yourself from sharringan to rinnegan then you can likely just use all your sharringan abilities still

    that is another argument entirely comapred to what I was posting about :blobcoffee
     
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