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Why did Naruto's character decline in P2?

Discussion in 'New Leaf' started by t0xeus, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. t0xeus

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    I really liked P1 Naruto, he was actually one of my favourite characters in P1.

    In P2, I was neutral about his character, and some times even I disliked him (IA, FKS, early WA).

    I can't pinpoint why that is though.

    Is it because of the removal of the underdog theme? And the introduction of child of prophecy bullshit? Or is it perhaps because he was too obsessed with Sasuke?

    I don't know, but one thing is for sure - the spark about his character that was there in P1 had gone missing in P2.

    Anybody feels the same? And can explain better than me why?
     
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  2. Mapel

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    All of the above
    That prophecy bs was the last nail on the coffin for his character
     
  3. Foxfoxal

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    He was not an underdog... At least since the chunin exams,

    Why people keep pushing that.
     
  4. Indra

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    cause Kishimoto
     
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  5. TheIcon266

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    This is gonna be fun:urouge
     
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  6. Djomla

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    Isn't part 1 Naruto exactly the same as the one in Shippuden?
     
  7. Batzzaro29

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    Because pt2 Naruto is gae.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
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  8. TheIcon266

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    Right, they’re both annoying&preachy, it’s just that p1 Naruto’s tnj was a lot less cringe
     
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  9. Raniero

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    He became Jesus
     
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  10. Punished Kiba

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    Kishimoto pushed it.
     
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  11. TrueG 37

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    *Insert Naruto on swing here*
     
  12. Foxfoxal

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    Being ignored or feared is not the same as underdog and an underdog does not pull a fricking Jonin jutsu in one night.

    Everyone pretty much sucked his dick since the chunin exams, that is not an underdog.

    Underdog is someone like Lee before training with guy.
     
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  13. Arthas

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    A few reasons :

    1) Chasing Sasuke perpetually ruined his character when he had loads of better friends. (The same way that Sasuke calling Itachi perfect ruined his character when he could have been more worried about his parents/clan). Kishi even acknowledged this by recognising that most people callled them crazy lunatics.

    2) Lack of Cool Showings : Early Part 2 Naruto lacked some fights where he could show off his growth. In all honesty it would have been better served if Kishi had allowed Naruto to fight some powerful opponent in KN3 mode to show case his growth before taking away the Kyuubi.

    3) The Underdog Theme : Is Naruto a non-genius who works hard or is he a handicapped genius. To put it simply Kishi kept going back and forth on this. We are told Naruto is not talented but then he learns SM in weeks and does it better then Jiraiya. He is meant to be an underdog but he can draw power from the most powerful tailed beast in his belly....

    4) Nartuo then became a wierd mix of Jesus and Buddha while at the same time not having any pratical answers to the world's problems.
     
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  14. TrueG 37

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    Kishi still tried to push that shit. Even with Lee being around. It's literally the basis of his fight with Neji:hestonpls. Until retcons and other shit insured that Neji was completely right:kanyelul.
     
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  15. Corvida

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    I have no words enough to tell I hate this thing and wish Naruto had strangled Kurama with it


    More important than Sarada's birth flashback

    Spoiler:




    Last seen ...converting Kawaki, as the fekking swing was worse than all the experiments made on poor Neymar

    Spoiler:




     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  16. Iwanko

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    No.
    Naruto never was a true underdog. Believing that titular character that had powerful demon inside him since chapter one isnt something special was just dumb.
    His obssession with Sasuke make more sense them if you see them as spiritual brothers. He literally tried to save his brother from darkness.
    Child of the prophecy although was cheap way to make Naruto relevant again suits his character so i dont see anything bad about this.
     
  17. NearlyEnough

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    Naruto’s character didn’t decline
     
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  18. NearlyEnough

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    Kawaki doesn’t look like Neymar, and unlike him, he’s actually relevant
     
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  19. Foxfoxal

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    I said after the chunin exams and you quote the chunin exams. OK.

    And retcon? he was important since episode 1 having the Kyubi and being so obviously Minato's son, that is Neji's problem, he judged him thinking he was a nobody.
     
  20. Cherry

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    He became too fixated on Sasuke, he was much better when his goal was set in stone and didn't involve him losing all his dignity to save a guy that didn't give a fuck about him. His character absolutely deflated in the war arc tho. While being the child of prophecies wasn't bad since he still had to work, being the reincarnation of god was just the last straw

    Someone can be a genius/talented yet born in a terrible shitty condition

    Naruto himself was not an underdog per say(until after the exams ofc), but his situation was that of one

    Like with his fight with Neji, Naruto could not choose to be born as the nine-tailed hosts and being hated by the entire village, but he could choose to use that hatred as motivation for him to achieve his goal, rather than letting it consume him
     
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  21. pumkin1988

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    I really started hating him mid way into part 2. I like his powers and he has nice battles but he legit has no answers for anything and doesn't change anything.
    Raikage - Just is a bitch and starts crying not to hurt his poor Sasuke-bosuke-wusuke
    Elders - Literally nothing
    Itachi - I'll keep your secret! (and never mention shit ever again)
    Sasuke - Please love me bro
    Pain - Peace is better than war!
    Obito - You're the coolest guy!
    On and on and on and on! He never stops. I know he is supposed to be peaceful and a pacifist. He wants to change the whole system then literally does jack shit. He hates being an orphan and how the villagers treat him yet continues to keep the shinobi system in place. He hated he grew up without parents then ignores his kids for so many years. He has made relations with the 5 kage but we are told there are still numerous cities and states and even continents. Just fuck them I guess?

    When he kept trying to cry for villain after villain is when he became a total knob. I legit have no idea where this ethos came from either. I mean he was born and raised a friggin Ninja. How the hell does he not like killing and settling disputes? Why does everybody else get to have revenge but Naruto doesn't? Too fairytale for me especially at the end.
     
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  22. 123fire

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    He's trash in both though. He's only likeable in boruto era
     
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  23. Deana

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    The child of destiny arc was the kill shot, but a character's story being totally derailed so Naruto can do everything didn't help either.
    Sakura's story or lack there of being one of the examples of this. Early on, a big part of her story was secretly studying the Uchiha and undertones of this aspect of her character was played out during the fight with Sasori but she was sidelined during the final confrontation with Sasuke and so was Kakashi. Sasuke was thrown under the bus for the chosen one as well.
    You don't cut off your supporting characters at the knees in such a way that it is devastating to said characters to prop the chosen one. :krillin
     
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  24. Aduro

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    The problem wasn't that Naruto wanted to save Sasuke. That was never mutually exclusive with wanting to be Hokage. Its that the story naturally dragged past the point where the Hokage dream lost its value.

    What being Hokage really meant to Naruto was being loved and respected by the whole village. But he was literally being crowdsurfed after saving everyone in the Pein Arc. He didn't even need to be Hokage to resolve that part of his character arc.

    Ideally, once that was resolved, Naruto needed to find a new goal, aside from saving Sasuke. Kishi could have done a lot of things. He could have had Naruto question what kind of Hokage he wanted to be. How he could shape the future. Especially after finding out about Danzo and how important he was to Hiruzen. Or how the 4th and supposedly greatest Hokage's pupil wound up becomming one of the most dangerous monsters in history.

    Naruto should also have had a more satisfying conclusion to that scene where some guy asked for Naruto's autograph, but Naruto knew that he probably would have looked at Naruto like he was a monster when he was younger. Naruto should have realised that his fame came with the ability to influence others, and that he should use that power to help others.
    But it just didn't really pan out, and very few of Naruto's action scenes went along with a story arc after the FKS Arc.



    Not really going to go into too much detail on the underdog stuff. Yes, Naruto had some special opportunities, but he could still have squandered them, there are lots of ways thing could have gone wrong for him.

    I would like to ask that people actually consider whether Naruto could have gained the power to achieve his goals or even survived without certain heroic virtues. Bravery, kindness, determination, free-thinking etc.

    For instance, Rasenshuriken required a rare chakra nature, tons of chakra and special training to achieve. But its also a jutsu that wouldn't exist if Kakashi hadn't been around to teach it to Naruto. Kakashi would certainly be dead if Naruto had left him captured by Zabuza in Part I.
     
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  25. Raiden Moderator

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    I don't think the underdog theme was removed; there was just more nuanced messaging. Even if they didn't introduce the Child of Prophecy stuff, Naruto would still have to overpower most people somehow.
     
  26. Cord Advisor

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    His unhealthy obsession with Sasuke became irksome alongside masochistic and cringe-worthy displays like allowing Karui to beat him to a pulp for Sasuke, kneeling in plea in front of Raikage to spare Sasuke (have some dignity my dude), and hyperventilating in front of Kakashi and co. His talk-no-jutsu was tolerable in part 1 and was actually even good, especially during the Land of the Waves arc, but it just became too much in part 2 that it unironically became the most potent of all his arsenal.

    And yes, I detest the "child of prophecy" thing, along with him (and Sasuke) being a literal reincarnation of a god because it completely undermines the series' earlier theme about "defying destiny" and the DBZ-esque battles that followed (though the latter didn't apply to him alone).
     
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  27. Azula

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    Because he was not allowed to deal with Sasuke in any way other than whitewashing everything he did and accepting him back.
     
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  28. NearlyEnough

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    First of all, you have to have really bad reading comprehension to think that "Hard work beats natural talent" is one of Naruto's themes, let alone the main theme like a lot of people claim, that's just what Lee initially believed. It's really really funny how many people seriously think that it's an important theme and an absolute truth when it isn't and never was. Naruto's themes are 'bonds' , 'loneliness', the cycle of hatred, etc.

    His character in Part 2 is just more mature, he's not the same overconfident kid, he wasn't able to save Sasuke -which was the first time he failed in an arc- and that changed his personality quite a bit. Also, he spent 3 years learning from Jiraiya.
    We can see this throughout Shippuden, for example in Gaara`s death, we see that he feels guilty and pathetic because he couldn't save Sasuke and Gaara. This is mentioned a lot of times, he feels insecure and blames himself for Sasuke.

    I actually like Part 2 Naruto a bit more, because, part 2 shows how human he is. It shows us different perspectives of his character and he went throughout a lot of character development. He learns about the way the world and the system work and starts thinking more about his actions and how to change the world. It's interesting compared to the typical shonen mc who only cares about his nakama and fights to protect them.
    Name some of these better friends than Sasuke, I will wait. Oh, you can't right? that's because it's shown and explained that Sasuke was Naruto's best friend. The one who recognized him the most, who could understand his pain and was willing to sacrifice his life to save him.
    They had/have a deep connection because they both know the pain of loneliness and despite appearances, they are really similar people, which is mentioned a lot of times.
    I don't understand how Sasuke calling Itachi perfect ruined his character. It's established that he had a big inferiority complex towards Itachi. Sasuke thinks that Itachi is perfect since they were kids because everyone talked about how great Itachi was and compared him with Itachi, it's just logical that someone would develop an inferiority complex in those circumstances.
    Also, you should learn to differentiate between a joke and a serious statement, Kishimoto was obviously joking in that interview.
    It was made on purpose, and it was a good decision from Kishimoto. It served to show us just how powerless and impotent Naruto felt. Which made his development way more interesting. It would be boring if he were a flawless person who wins every fight and doesn't have inner conflicts are all.
    "Hardwork beats natural talent" never was one of Naruto's themes. It's established since the first chapter that he has talent. His conflict is way more interesting and deeper than being a nobody without talent.
    He's not a reincarnation but transmigration, which means that his body got possessed by Ashura's chakra at some time -probably Pain arc or FKS-.
    Also, Funny how people seem to think Neji was right in the end. Naruto kept fighting destiny up to the very end. Indra and Ashura were always meant to fight and kill one or the other to the bitter end.
    He fought that one thing he was literally destined to do: to be part of a never-ending sibling rivalry.
    Not what happened at all. He tried to convince the Raikage, using the cycle of hatred as an argument and explaining him that Sasuke was the way he was due to revenge and killing Sasuke would create a cycle of hatred.
    He didn't talk with them...
    I don't get your point here. He kept the secret because it's not his decision whether revealing or not the truth about the Uchiha massacre but Itachi's and Sasuke's because they were the ones who suffered the consequences.
    Not what happened at all. Learn to read
    He proved that Pain philosophy was wrong by not killing him even though he wanted to kill him so badly that couldn't stop shaking and trying to understand him even though he hated Pain.
    That's a bad translation and it's obvious that he makes a distinction between Obito and 'no one'. He was talking about Obito someone like him, who wanted to become Hokage to protect the village and create peace, who recognized that he was wrong and tried his best to solve his mistakes.
    He changed the system... so you're wrong. What manga did you read? surely not Naruto.
    Completely different situations.
    Where did you get this from? LMAO. The whole world is at peace, not just the 5 great nations.
    The problem is not Naruto but your poor reading comprehension. Every single thing you said was wrong.
    His reason to become Hokage, changed throughout the series. At first, he wanted to become Hokage just to get recognition but after a lot of character development, his reason changed to becoming Hokage to protect everyone and create peace. How could you miss that?
    You missed the part about him wanting to break the cycle of hatred and create peace? that's like a big part of his character development. Also, it's explained quite a lot of times what kind of Hokage he wants to be...
    He used his charisma to help others so I don't understand your point. Also, it makes sense for him to hate the villagers because of how they wronged him. Overcoming his own hatred and ill feelings is part of his character development too.
     
  29. NearlyEnough

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    Are you 5? your "arguments" are retarded...
     
  30. pumkin1988

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    ^
    Not going to quote. Too much to delete.
    Sasuke is his best friend? Plzzzzzzzzzz! Hardly. Gaara is a perfect best friend. So is Shikamaru. So is pretty much everyone else in the cast that didn't try and kill Naruto multiple times. Holy hell you are crazy

    And the whole world is at peace? Ummm.....nvm. I'm not even going to acknowledge you said that. Let's pretend you didn't say that.
     
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