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Why do people think Tsunade & WA Sakura lose to Jounins or borderline kage levels?

Discussion in 'Naruto Battledome' started by Shazam, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Shazam

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    Question I cant seem to understand
     
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  2. Ultrafragor

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    Cuz these girls only have hype surrounding their taijutsu skill

    So it becomes a double standard when you say Sakura or Tsunade will, for-sure, get their hits in but their opponent magically loses all claims to taijutsu and can't make a move while waiting for Sakura or Tsunade to fall out of the sky and land a punch.




    Here's a question: Do you think Sakura is better than part 1 Tsunade in taijutsu? Because part 1 Tsunade couldn't land clean hits on Kabuto, yet you want to act like Sakura is gonna shitblitz other jonin level fighters.
     
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  3. Turrin

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    Top Jonin can beat Low/Mid Kage under the right conditions / match up so I don’t disagree that they can beat them, but the conditions need to be in their favor and not many can do it.

    Kakashi stands no chance of doing so since Tsunade and Sakura have knowledge of Kamui and can fairly easily counter it by melding with Katsuya, which is too large for Kakashi to warp away or do well anything against

    Sakura and Tsunade also have knowledge of Gates; and can use Katsuya and Byakugo to defend pretty much all the Gates except maybe 8TH, so Gai would need an ideal scenario where he survive long enough to use 8TH Gate and even the it’s a draw.

    Darui really can’t deal enough damage to them to be a threat

    Yamato can’t restrain them enough to do damage

    With that said some could win

    Fu could win with Mind Transfer Puppet

    Torune could win with Nano Bugs

    Dan could win with Spirit Transformation.
     
  4. t0xeus

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    Very one dimensional fighting style.
    They are one trick ponies, either their punch works or they're donezo.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
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  5. Matto

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    The problem with this is that it's actually the opposite double standard. Sakura and Tsunade have landed hits in all of theirs fights - just as blows have been landed in virtually every fight we've seen in the manga - but yet, somehow Tsunade and Sakura can't land a single blow in what could be a long, drawn-out battle thanks to Katsuyu and Strength of a Hundred - Creation Rebirth. Instead, it's often argued that Tsunade and Sakura are decapitated, are having limbs chopped off, or are being hit with would-be-fatal wounds left and right, and are forced to exhaust themselves from constantly regenerating, but they can't land a single punch.

    Aside from rusty Tsunade being much weaker than WA Sakura or an in-shape / Will-of-Fire Tsunade, Tsunade did land multiple blows against Kabuto. She traded blows with a shoulder tackle, which didn't KO Kabuto on the spot because of his Chakra Scalpel (very few could negate her strength in such a situation), pulled off a Body Pathway Derangment, and landed a punch straight to Kabuto's face. Let that sink in: a rusty, out-of-practice Tsunade, who was stated to be in a "fallen" state and way past her prime, landed multiple blows against a Jounin of Kabuto's caliber (on par with Part 1 Kakashi, who was already one of the most famed and accomplished Jounin in the world, and the best Jounin in the Leaf) despite Kabuto's advantages (i.e., he was fleeing, exhausted her before he engaged, soldier pill).

    Yet, somehow an in-shape Tsunade / Sakura, who can both cause collateral damage on a much more massive scale than Part 1 Tsunade, and thus KO opponents without even touching them, would struggle against a Jounin?
     
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  6. Francyst

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    We don't misunderstand everything in the manga related to them.

    People think:
    Tsunade getting played by a clone feint means she's fast enough to blitz sharingan users
    Tsunade acting first against Madara's final attack is a reaction feat
    Defending someone right next to them means she has the speed to blitz hand seals
    Dust clouds are explosions.
    Intercepting a dodge(unquantifiable speed) is a high tier reaction and striking speed feat

    Sakura's biggest cheerleader Speedy thought the seal enhanced their physical capabilities :hestonpls

    ....and there are many more that think the same :wellshit

    Tsunade got clapped by a Jonin and Sakura has no feats that suggests she surpassed Tsunade. :mlpshrug
     
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  7. wooly Eullerex

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    well, they aren't combat shinobi...they specialize in support.
    they don't have ninjutsu or any examples of combat prowess.
    Therein lies the answer
    :mystery
     
  8. Femme

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    Sexism or Character hate.
     
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  9. Shazam

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    How does this equate to losing to Jounins?
     
  10. Ultrafragor

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    the ground pound has only taken out fodders

    Why do you insist on arguing it can take out jonin+ fighters or anyone with a brain?

    Besides jumping, the most obvious tactic for most ninja when their opponent rushes them is to slap them with a ninjutsu. So, Tsunade and Sakura have their hands full simply making an approach against anyone who isn't also a taijutsu user. The closer they get, the more likely they'll get slapped with a fireball or something else.

    That's the drawback of melee fighting and why Lee/Gai focus on speed, Asuma has ninjutsu in addition to extendable blades, and why the Hyuuga have Air Palm+Kaiten.

    Tsunade and Sakura don't actually have an answer for this basic problem. They just expect to shrug off any damage they take on the way, but obviously there's things they can't shrug off. Attacks that cause continuous damage or attacks that knock them back out of melee range are just going to hard counter Tsunade and Sakura's attack style.

    On top of that, people who are just plain better fighters are going to land their hits before Sakura or Tsunade land their own and that can lead to the same outcomes I just mentioned above.


    The only reason you would suggest punching the ground at all, when it has only one on screen showing (and even then she was attacking a specific enemy and not even going for an AoE attack) means that you already understand the setbacks I've described and are looking for a way that Tsunade or Sakura can attack from outside their normal range.

    Even though neither one of them has ever actually attempted this and it's an OOC tactic for both.
     
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  11. Francyst

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    They're both around that level.
     
  12. wooly Eullerex

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    - Beware Trolls | Do Not Feed -
     
  13. Femme

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    Sakura and tsunade consistently fights and survives against a heavy hitters and you all won’t give them credit. Oh that was an asspull. Oh Sage mode naruto hits harder. Y’all dont want to give them any kind of accomplishments
     
  14. Lee-Sensei

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    She was rusty, but that was still pretty bad. Kabuto even said that he wasn’t good at Taijutsu.

    If this is thread is about Tsunade and, I can understand why someone would believe that he can win since he hard counters Taijutsu users without a significant speed advantage.
     
  15. Lee-Sensei

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    Gai and a Kakashi are objectively not just Top Jonin. Sorry.
     
  16. Turrin

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    Looks for an argument, sees none

    They struggle with or loose to most Top Jonin, yet they aren’t Top Jonins, yeah okay. Granted Gai is probably the strongest Top Jonin; or Dan. I’ll give him that much.

    Also bare in mind I use Top Jonin interchangeably with borderline Kage (basically the weakest Low-Kage)
     
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  17. Femme

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    Kabuto was also stated to be on kakshis level, and Kabuto also took a steroids before had to make him stronger and more durable. Also Kabuto was going to die by tsunades hand if he didn’t exploit her fear of blood. Which orochimaru told him to exploit before hand
     
  18. wooly Eullerex

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    • mystical palms is not a fighting style
    • sucker punching jiraiya/naruto is not a fighting style
    • accidentally poisoning an ally is not a fighting style
    • sedating ur teammates is not a fighting style
    • making craters as tactical diversion is not a fighting style
    • ''evasion'' & ''taijutsu'' is a not a fighting style
    • being a tactical crutch & crude human shield for the actual combatants on ur team is not a fighting style
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  19. Lee-Sensei

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    1) Gai and Kakashi would trash the overwhelming majority of A-Rank ninja. Heck. Kakashi was already a Top Jonin at the start of the series when he was rusty. Kabuto, who was supposed to be Kakashi’s Level put in work against (rusty) Tsunade.

    2) They aren’t borderline Kage level. That’s the point. Maybe you could say that about BoS Kakashi, but he grew significantly since then both with his Sharingan and his stamina/chakra reserves.
     
  20. Femme

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    What are your thoughts on the Nara? I’m trying to see something
     
  21. Lee-Sensei

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    Yes. He used every advantage that he had at his disposal (like a smart ninja would), but it’s still not a very good showing. She gets better feats during the War Arc.
     
  22. wooly Eullerex

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  23. Femme

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    I don’t think she was serious until she tried said she was. There was one point where she changed and the name the battle nearly ended until Kabuto cut himself. Kabuto wasn’t a match really, tsunade could’ve ended things quick.

    We literally waited until she was out ignoring break, not to mention that she was already 6 days restless ( without sleep) and had a few bottles of sake.
    And he told Kabuto her weakness


    It just took the word blood for tsunade to cower in fear. So the feats from the Kabuto fight aren’t really a flex
     
  24. Femme

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    That list failed to mention Sakura or the Nara, I see you reasoning. You don’t consider brains just brawn
     
  25. Turrin

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    1. What the hell is A-Rank Ninja lol

    2. Anyway Kakashi and Gai would loose, draw, or high diff most of the strongest Jonin in each hidden village through history

    3. The fact that Rusty / lacking will Tsunade who wasn’t even Kage yet, but if she was would be the weakest Kage by a mile, was going to beat Kabuto (if not for exploiting her blood phobia) who is >= P1 Kakashi, who was using drugs to increase his ability is not a good point in your favor

    4. Yeah they are as they loose or draw with even the weakest Kages, unless match up circumstances is widely in their favor
     
  26. Shazam

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    U mean drugged and rusty blood phobia Tsunade?

    And Sakura who tagged Kaguya ?
     
  27. Lee-Sensei

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    1) A Jonin. Obviously.

    2) Nah. They’d trash them: it’s absolutely bizarre that anyone would think that 7th Gate Gai is Jonin Level, but that with one more Gate he becomes strong enough to solo the 5 Kages.

    3) No bias here. I see that you didn’t mention that Lakashi was rusty too.

    4) Nah. Kakashi ranks with the Mid Akatsuki IMO and Gai is comfortably above them. They’re both solidly Kage level ninja.
     
  28. Lee-Sensei

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    When was Tsunade drugged?
     
  29. Shazam

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    Well blood phobia Tsunade who was rusty.
     
  30. Shazam

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    It's as if people think the 5th Hokage Granddaughter of Hashirama, a Sannin is Jounin level or below lol

    Trolls will be trolls
     
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