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Why I hate Sai

Discussion in 'Konoha Library Archives' started by tofutofutofu, Nov 25, 2005.

  1. tofutofutofu Priest

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    (Please read this initial post before replying.)

    Sai, along with his master, is the first villain who is in a slightly complicated fashion (there really is not much subtlety in the sheer viciousness of an Orochimaru, Kisame, Zabuza, or even an Itachi, ok) despicable--but in the end deserving of our hatred more than Orochimaru, Itachi, and the Akatsuki, any villain we have seen. In fact I don't even think these former villains are even possible to be hated by a manga readership--they're so unreal and supernatural that we simply find ourselves cheering on the good guys to triumph because we like the good guys.

    But now, thankfully, it seems we have finally found a villain who we actually want to suffer and be humiliated. Sai is that villain.

    He is the first character truly deserving of our hatred, who we can all as ethical people consider with some relation to ourselves (trust me, nobody I know is like Sasuke or Itachi in circumstance) and conclude him to be the vilest form of trash, whose character is to be fled in our personal lives at all costs, out of distate for all that is evil and weak.

    This effeminate androgynous psychopath whose smirking, precious tiny lips betrays a malice, insidiousness, and fundamental weakness..

    yes, those lips bother me, the lips of a real rat,
    (by now they're so consistent in every close-up that it's worse than that hilarious way to differentiate sasuke, itachi, and their dad --the middle one has those hilarious eye-cheekbone marks and the latter has that hilarious frown dimple.)

    ugh those lips.

    Do not compare this trash to Haku and Gaara. Haku and Gaara indeed had insane ideals, but ideals nearly paradoxically forged out of bonds of love (in Gaara's case self-love, or sheer survival). Haku and Gaara, though inhuman in what they did and could do, were some of the most crushingly emotional characters in the entire series--real feeling individuals.

    So too is Sai devoted to something. But note that it is not out of love, it is not out of the necessity of self-preservation (Gaara), it is just utter, nasty, incorrigible nothingness, nihilism, not even properly considered a slave to his hugely corrupt master, but a slave to being a slave. He is the purest cog, the incarnate shinobi "tool"--that ideal so maligned (and rightfully so) by Kishimoto himself, through Kakashi, Kakashi's father, Obito, Naruto, and even Sasuke.
     
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  2. G. Hawke The one who left

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    Holy shit! :omg
    And i thought my reason for hating him was good enough.
    U took it to another level.
    Thanks man. :thumbs
     
  3. Saaji Kuroisenshi

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    You basically said what i couldn't gather into words. Very well done.
     
  4. Satetsu Kaihou

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    For some reason I got a Edgar Allen Poe feeling in this essay. Maybe its the wording...
     
  5. icoselitham Lost

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    So you don't like because of the way Kishi draws his lips and because he's inhuman. I'd say he has feminine lips like Haku. He has no emotion so being inhuman is too be expected. And when you speak about his devotion to something you say "it is just utter, nasty, incorrigible nothingness, nihilism, not even properly considered a slave to his hugely corrupt master, but a slave to being a slave" I see your point here. He's like the puppet Sasori but nothing about him is human.
    Well...I like Sai. I'll hate him if he gives a crappy reason why he's still living.
     
  6. Robotkiller Still alive

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    You should join the club man, man that was a good rant.
     
  7. funjat Where to from here Adventure?

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    the reason we *generalizes* hate Sai is because Naruto and Sakura hate him, i.e. the endearing characters we grew most fond of (ok, maybe not Sakura).
    but at the end of the day, Sai has to earn the trust of his team-mates, he is shrewd enough to understand, so our *generalizes* views might change.

    descriptions i liked most: incorrigible nothingness, nihilism, ideal so maligned, sheer viciousness, effeminate androgynous psychopath whose smirking, precious tiny lips betrays a malice, insidiousness, and fundamental weakness. by tofutofutofu.
     
  8. Frieza Destroyer of Worlds

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    You sound like me when I am trying to get my prof to buy what I am saying. Very well dictated my friend. I do agree with most of it, although I am not that big of a lip hater. In my opinion it seems that Sai will be dead by the end of this arc.
     
  9. Master Scorpion UG's High Priest

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    I love his lips, so sexy...
     
  10. Mizura Meh

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    Obsessed with those lips eh? :huh

    Me, I've stopped minding him That much when I realized that he's necessary for the plotline that is "Konoha's internal political conflicts", a plotline I find somewhat interesting. So far Sai only seems like a pawn in that plotline, but a necessary one for that plotline to be around, so I just shrug him off as a necessary evil that hopefully will be killed off soon once he's served his purpose. *shrugs*
     
  11. Zenith00 The ShadowCaster

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    well i dont really hate sai but that was an awesome post! really good usage of the english language. lol.
     
  12. RGZ_ReGZ Refined Gundam Zeta

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    I remember one of the former penpal (who hated yaoi to the point of extremist) once commented about yaoi fangirls:
    "it's frightening to think that these girls, who may one day become judge, may accept that it's okay for a boy to kill 200 guy so that he can reunite with his love, while it's not okay to kill even one single guy or manipulate others for the greater good"

    Of course, the fact that he's targeting yaoi, and that many of his other argument are hochpoach, I just ignored his comment.

    However, recently, I read about tofutofutofu's comment on "Why I hate Sai", and I began to wonder if what my ex-penpal said do have some merit.

    From tofutofutofu:
    One theme about this is the fact that Sai's biggest fault is unable to love; just blindly obeying. To him, this is wrong. Even worse, he hide his obedience behind a fake human emotion. In short, the Sai's fault is the fact that he's not human.

    How does this tie in to many of our fandom? If you haven't notice, much of our fandom discussions are compose of either yaoi pairings and hetro pairings; in short, based on love. We also have people who dislike the introduction of politics into Naruto, or in fact, any anime/manga.

    However, I want to know: what does the real-world society reward? Not people who love others, but those that "love" money; those that "love" power; those that "love" politics; those that "love" law; and anyone that dislike such thought will easily be deemed as "dimwit", "naive", "dumb". In short, loving things that is actually nothing in itself it's the way to go, while having actual love is wrong. I trust that many of you had been, or seen, that those who say "Lord of the Flies" is a bad novel will be called by numerous negative ways, because you are not confirming to what the soceity think.

    Then, in this light, is there are right and wrong? What is appropriate?

    Despite how much I search, I yet to be able to differetiate the side of right and wrong, and so, as of now, I can only come to the conclusion that perhaps actually it doesn't matter. Though, in that case, why is what we regard as "wrong" (ie acting like Mammon) is right for as long as our civilization exist?

    I then realize that the problem is which's survival is more important: personal (ability to love) or society (ability to obey)?which is more often regard as right, because they see the strength. Sai here is what many society actually dreamt of: human transformed into a machine, part of the gear in the society, believing that scarifice one for many is often how our society function, because it is mathematically correct.

    Unfortunately, I think while that thinking may be better for the society, I think it's actually more harmful too: we may eventually cease to be human, and lose some ability. Some people called it evolution is never necessary better; just change, and sometimes change can be regress.

    While the current society believe that human is actually deterministic, and thus have no free will (which support the fact that if one's a emotionless human, it's fine and dandy) from many observations, it would seems that human is actually indeterministic, and have free will: that is, no matter how much one was molded, no matter how much information was accessed and blocked out, one always have a right and wrong; even serial killers like BTK actually know what they did was wrong; they just decided to give in to their pleasure.

    In that light, I think Sai do actually have a choice whether to become the perfect ANBU or a human being. The fact that he kept his past shown that he does have a free will, and thus, by continuing obey to a villian, he will become a villian.

    In any case, tofutofu, that was a great essay; the fact that not only you go beyond looks (as many anti does) but also use an appropriate theory to support you is good. I may not hate Sai, but still, Reps to you.
     
  13. tmmyc on a Forums Break

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    Actually, Kishimoto has not yet revealed why Sai is the way he is, but gave us a hint in 285 with the showing of his childhood picture. It is not "nasty, incorrigible nothingness"; rather it is "not yet revealed".

    And his lips are hardly a reason to hate him more than Orochimaru. Quite a weak argument.
     
  14. funjat Where to from here Adventure?

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    Yeah. There is a hint that he might turn good and we might end up liking him after all. Or he's just another Sasori.
     
  15. gaarasai just living on....

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    So in other words, you hate him because he is the almost perfect applier of the shinobi way?

    hm... he seems a bit pitiful though
     
  16. Criminal NF TRIPLE OG

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    My $0.02= Seems to me you named all the reasons you are supposed to hate him, minus the lips and your oh so "colorful" commentary. Yeah, he's a mindless doll being drug along by an old asshole........alright. But I can tell you now that the character we were introduced to isn't going to be the same person we get to know. Im pretty sure your first impression of Gaara and the way you look at him now are different, same with Haku or even Kimimaro. I feel its far to early to hate him based on what we have seen so far, which contrary to popular beliefe, is very little. Im prefectly happy waiting to see what kind of character Sai turns out to be rather than judging him now on what he appears to be. And stop looking at that dudes lips like that, I havnt noticed anything about his lips that stand out to me and Im not trying to either ha ha. oh I meant lol. Enjoyed the rant though.
     
  17. dhJackBurton It's NERV or nuth'n!

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    First:

    *Claps for Tofutofutofu*
    *Claps again for RGZ_ReGZ*

    Everything Tofutofu said is right on. The reason don't like Sai is because he is caustic for no good reason (that we have seen thus far). My guess is that he is just playing mind games... or better yet he is pulling a Shinji and protecting himself from getting into potentially emotionally hurtfull relationships by pushing others away. But, like Tofutofu said, the reason that many people do not like Sai is because he hurts for no reason, unlike Sasuke or Gaara.

    Criminal, you make a good point that Kishimoto is most likely setting Sai up for a reversal like he has done with most characters, but you have to admit it is a very good reason to dislike Sai as the manga currently stands. He hasn't changed, he doesn't seem to be deeply scarred which causes him to lash out, and he is is generally bitter.

    I am quite intrigued as to where Sai's character is going and will probably end up liking him, but until that time... what a douche!
     
  18. mftrunks Fourth Tomoe Sharingan

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    thats kinda pathetic that you have to give a reason why you hate a drawing on a piece of paper......
     
  19. Yasha Procreate

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    I hate him because he lied about his own gender. But I may like him again when Kishi brings up some emotional stuffs about him, like those in Chiyo-sama arc.
     
  20. Gaara-Kazekage Member

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    I hope you realize that Sai is mildly similar to real people and many who reside in this forum. To me, his speech imitates those who hate for the smallest reason, spilling insults freely and abundantly without a care for other people's feelings (very similar to how people insult one another's fav characters here).

    He follows orders like a lot of people follow rules/tradition/protocol and work like machines for bread & butter. I count less than 10 people I know who work/study with passion/love. I see people who put up decent smiling faces that don't really convey genuine friendship. I hear people backstab others too often and too much.

    Sai's personality might be unique as he has no feelings (positive/negative) towards anyone. Even expression-less Itachi detests/despise his clansmen, and keeps telling Sasuke that he lacks hatred...I don't see how having 'feelings' serve a greater purpose unless it's positive.
     
  21. tofutofutofu Priest

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    what's pathetic is that you have the intelligence/analytical skills of a 4 year old.
     
  22. Core Member

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    All I got from this post was you don't like his lips and then a bunch of blatant insults. :huh

    There are many inhuman characters out there, Sasori is a great example.

    And um, we haven't seen his backstory, so you can't say he hurts for no reason.
     
  23. SaiST 鎧袖一触 Retired Staff

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    The haaaaaaaaaate!

    Keep it hot 'n' strong, kids. :D
     
  24. mistergin Less Talk, More Stab!

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    I think it's more a question of who actually LIKES Sai?
     
  25. Splintered Active Member

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    ...

    I like Sai.

    I can completely understand why someone would hate him though. As far as we have seen, there have been no trully redeemable qualities shown. Had we seen him on the street, we would forever hate him.

    But every since Sai started acting, he interested me. He was putting on a play and failling miserable. Anyone can see that. He's a social retard that is forced into a group that has some of the strongest bonds we have seen. He's an amusing character in the story that creates an awkward atomsphere that has the potential to grow into anything. He's the unstable element in the equation.
     
  26. tofutofutofu Priest

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    good reply grasshopper!!!!!!
     
  27. mercycubed my left eye is my fox eye

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    I think all of the reasons that make you hate Sai; are the reasons that make me like him. Sai, and the subplot concerning him, will make Naruto mature more towards "Hokage" than saving Sasuke, fawning over Sakura, or fighting Akatsuki will.
     
  28. Robotkiller Still alive

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    dude...join the fc.
     
  29. Gallic Rush Why not?

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    This is bull-shit. When I started a thread for hating Sasuke it got trashed in less than 3 minutes, but for some reason this thread is ok because it's about how Sai sucks?

    BTW, I don't dislike Sai, he just comes off as a slightly unnatural character to me. I just don't think his dialogue is very smooth. This might be because of meaning lost in translation, but there's just something about Sai's communication that feels akward. Almost like he's just randomly thinking of things and saying them. It got a little better in 286 and I hope it improves from here.
     
  30. tofutofutofu Priest

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    SASUKE SUCKS D__K!!!!! too
     
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