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Why was Kishimoto so uncomfortable writing about romance?

Discussion in 'House of Uzumaki' started by Shinobi1jutsu, Mar 23, 2018.

  1. Batzzaro29 Well-Known Member

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    Sasuke thought Sakura as comrade there was no romantic feeling involved during pt 1 till end of pt 2 and doubt it does even now.

    And Sasuke was jealous of Naruto's strength not Sakura's 'smile' Naruto.

    Sasuke had no romantic feeling for Sakura, you don't need romantic feeling to save someone in need and Sasuke during Gaara fight was a good guy... Kind of.
     
  2. 50 pesos not 50 cent

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    cuz it cringy asf
     
  3. SoulFire! Venerable Sage Moderator

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    You've got your 'head canon' interpretations and I have mine. Mine just tend to coincide with the way in which the story ended. You don't believe that those scenes I mentioned were Kishi's way of indicating that Naruto was indeed falling for Hinata (even though he, himself, was not able to recognize his own changing feelings as indicated in the movie--which has Kishi's blessings and is canon whether you like it or not). You prefer to think that Naruto and Sasuke were denied lovers. That's okay. Whatever floats your boat...:jaeshrug

    There is no legit proof of Naruto's romantic love for Sasuke, either. Head canon (aka interpretation) at work either way. The difference is that one view is proven true and the other moved to the realm of crack.

    Why didn't Naruto answer Hinata's confession: Look at the time line and the events occurring within between the time of Hinata's confession and Naruto's entry into the war arc. In the little time Naruto spends between the defeat of Pain and his departure for the Gokage summit he is immediately faced with the severity of Tsunade's condition, then learns of Sasuke's actions in the confrontation with the Cloud nins. He then takes off for the Gokage Summit, returns briefly only to quickly get summoned to Mt. Myobuku and soon is off to Turtle island where he remained in training until he learned of the war and headed for the battlefront where he finally meets up with Hinata again.

    The the only scene prior to this wherein we see Hinata is during the rookie meeting just prior to Naruto's trip to Mt. Myobuku and at that time he is so angered by his meeting with the group that he stomps off to Ichiraku. There was no time for him to talk with Hinata and it is questionable whether she would make herself available for him to do so, as she had never meant to confess her feelings and possibly was feeling uncomfortable about it.
    Sakura was a 'cute' girl that Naruto liked. Finding a girl attractive and wanting her attention does not equal romantic love.

    The same can be said about his feelings for Naruto.

    And yet they are canon. The fact that you don't want to see it that way changes nothing.

    I don't think Kishi had one male in his story outright profess their love. The closest he ever came was edo Dan bidding Tsunade a final farewell until they meet in heaven and even that is stretching it. He was clearly more interested in the action side of his manga than the romantic one--and he obviously (as displayed in Kakashi's thoughts) considered romance to be more on the mind of girls.

    Nor does your interpretation. In the end Naruto and Sasuke married the women they came to love. Your viewpoint that they had some deep romantic love/desire for one another changes nothing.

    And that's a fact.
     
  4. Dean Ambrose Well-Known Member

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    cause he wasn't good at it. At the end of the day, he legitimately wrote a quick fanfic ending to Naruto that pretty much was lulzy when it came to canons. Plus he didn't know how to keep both sides of the 'romance' from actually being negatively affected by his decisions .

    Plus he sucks at planning overall story :cat
     
  5. HisokaRollin Sougo, my boy

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    What i ship doesnt matter here, and i dont care for sp movie with sp writing that has nothing common with characters in manga. The way the story ended doesnt change lack of romantic proof in both part 1 and 2. There is none of it. :jaeshrug

    So you are in such lack for argument that you have to go for what i ship? Whatever. Sns is just the case of interpratation in part 1 and 2 as is nh, but in sns case you have way more shitload of content and proof. And im not going there because that is headcannon territory and at least I get it.
    Thats cute excuses you have there, of course you will come up with it, since there is so little to this ship that you have to look for headcannons to make up for lack of scenes. I dont give a damn, its your theory, doesnt change the fact that there is no romantic scene, like i wrote before. Everyone can make excuses, it doesnt change that Naruto never saw her in romantic light in both part 1 and 2.

    And here we go with BOTH excuses AND denial. WOAH!

    So you consider Naruto and Hinata ineractions as romantic even though he never liked her clearly romantic way in part 1 and 2 but when he openly says he find Sakura ,,cute" and has stated has a crush on her and asks her on a date, is jealous of her feelings for Sasuke and so on and on and on, its not romantic? Honestly, its hard to take you seriously after this.

    You clearly feel insecure towards narusaku like most hardcore nh and i get why. Hell, i dont even ship it but its still amusing how their screen time hurts you guys.

    What does it change in the fact that Naruto saved him and is the only person who never gave up on him in his eyes? Getting desperate, poor you.

    And yet they have no romantic development from Naruto's side in the manga. The fact that you like to fantasise about them as planned, best love story of century changes nothing.



    And its CLEARLY your theory and i dont care. Nor does it adds any nh or ss scenes or makes up for lack of romantic feelings from boys side.

    Also what you wrote is not true because we saw Jiraya hitting on Tsunade, Lee and Naruto liking Sakura, Minato's feelings for Kushina and Dan of course. Seriously, when was the last time you read the manga if you forgot it?

    What does my interpretation has anything to do with the fact that Kishi never wrote Naruto and Sasuke liking girl romantically back in part 1 and 2? My viewpoint is my viewpoint and i can discuss it when the topic calls it, but you trying to call me out for pairing i like while trying to prove naruhina only makes you look weak and desperate.

    Nh has no romantic moments from Naruto's side in whole part 1 and 2 and Kishi preferred to show Naruto obsessing over Sasuke than make him give even a second lasting thought of what to do with Hinata's confession and of him wanting to be with her.

    What i ship, what theories you made and how you try to twist and excuse lack of nh romantic scenes doesnt make any difference to the fact that in part 1 and 2 mutual romantic naruhina doesnt exist.

    And Soul, you are a nice lady and i am aware i may have been more rude to you recently than necessary and i feel that its not cool from my side.
    Im sorry.

    But you really need to learn the difference between subjective and objective reading, an interpretation and a fact and that your view and theories are not absolute proof nor does they make true what you want to see.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
  6. SoulFire! Venerable Sage Moderator

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    Actually, what you ship does matter to some degree as it has a part in what shapes your view of the way things ended up. Even if you care nothing for The Last it had Kishi's blessing (and his involvement to some extent, which actually shaped the way in which the anime writers addressed the characters and their behavior).

    If the use of common cliches indicating romantic interest-- 'in your eyes'; hand holding (listen to almost any romantic song and you'll hear a reference to one or both of these); teasing by colleagues (Kiba); the appearance of mentally sensing a 'love interest's' call of distress; etc.--doesn't give you a hint of where things are leading nothing willl.

    It is what it is. Sakura was a 'cute' girl that Naruto liked. Finding a girl attractive and wanting her attention does not equal romantic love. It was a tween crush. If you want to call that romantic love, fine...but it was never really that important to Naruto and he dropped any serious (if you could call it that) pursuit of Sakura once he saw Sasuke's response to her hug in that hospital. Kishi even used the metaphorical action of Naruto 'drawing the curtain' on his quest for Sakura's attention.

    Nope. Naruto didn't understand Hinata's behavior in part one, but still liked her nonetheless. He never had much of a clue about romance--nor was it as high on his priorities as gaining acceptance through working his way up to Hokage.

    Kishi used those 'date' requests (most simply mentions rather than requests) as comic relief. Practically any supposed NS moment falls into this category, the biggest exception being Sai's flashback, which we are only shown via his memory and interpretation of the event. We never returned to it to get Naruto's point of view (because it was nothing but a set up for the events surrounding Sakura's part in the Iron Country arc).The jealousy revolved around Naruto's rivalry with Sasuke and even that was dropped with that hospital scene.

    :hestonpls


    Changes nothing. Naruto literally was the only one who didn't give up on Sasuke--even Sakura made that weak attempt to kill him for his own good (though she couldn't go through with it). They are 'soul brothers', after all.


    Weren't you claiming earlier that Naruto felt romantic love for Sakura?

    Just saying that it's the same for you regarding an overt depiction of ships. Kishi did not give pointed attention to his romantic subplots (if you can call them that). The difference is that my interpretations (or head canons, if you will) were verified by the storie's end.
     
  7. Suigetsu Legendary Blue

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    Unironically. At first he seemed to have no problem doing it subtle but then due to editorial presure he dropped the ball and exposed himself to the kind of anti social he was. He has no idea how real humans hit on each other just like otakus.
     
  8. pdmt243 Active Member

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    in my view, he's just screwing around. Minato and Kushina was written well enough, so was Dan-Tsunade and to a certain extent, Tsunade-Jiraiya.

    but that's ok, his trolling around has given us the road to the Hall of Anal Devastation, which I'd rank the most glorious meltdown in history of manga/anime. It was fabulous, truly a sight to behold :trinny:hestonpls:sauceskully:gokuskully:bookerskully:tupac:mjlol:kobeha:tomha
     
  9. Tom Servo Pants Pants Pants Pants

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    He doesn't have a problem writing romance (he actually said on several occasions how he likes writing romance up until NH became a thing) he has a problem writing women.
     
  10. Vilu New Member

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    That Hall is about NaruSaku?
     
  11. HisokaRollin Sougo, my boy

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    Ok whatever, its a waste of my time to go through walls of your own headcannons build over decades and try to discuss about facts. You take your own subjective view as a fact all the time and thats why there is no discussing here. You dont discuss- you generously try to enlight everyone like writing your opinions is stating ubndeniable truth.

    You laugh at being insecure about narusaku and yet you cant admit that Naruto romantically liked Sakura. He never in part 1 and 2 sw Hinata in romantic light while he saw Sakura this way and its a FACT. You being in denial about this doesnt change it. And in no nh scene you mentioned did Naruto liked Hinata romantically and your beloved Last ,,blessed by Kishi" even shows that all their ,,moments" and her confession meant shit for Naruto since he treated Hinata like no one close to him.

    And theory about Naruto not understanding love or bein ginterested in this is pulled out of your ass and your headcanoon so im not addressing nor discussing it.

    Honestly, its a waste of my time so lets just end this here. Im not gonna reply to you anymore.
     
  12. Yagami1211 The Mad Dog of Shimano !

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    Just to say that The Last has a very specific scene when Sakura says to Hinata Naruto can't make the different between Romantic love and his love for Ramen. IIRC. When Naruto sees Hinata's memories and he sees the scenes. When Sakura says "Naruto can't make the different between Romantic love and his love for Ramen" Naruto answers "It's not the same thing ?". Retcon or not, That's not Headcanon as it was in the movie.

    This line can't be misinterpreted.

    Sakura alsso says herself that Naruto was attracted to her because she loves Sasuke. Because as she says "He didn't want to lose to him."

    Make of that what you want, but you can't ignore that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  13. HisokaRollin Sougo, my boy

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    Dude this line makes no sense when you watch or read early part 1 again and it kinda makes Naruto emotionally messed up asshole who would tell a girl he likes her only out of jealousy for a guy (LOL). And i say this while shipping sasunaru. Lets have a little objective view here ffs.

    Also Naruto is enough emotionally intelligent person to make Zabuza cry by talking about how Haku loved him and suddenly sp movie makes him an idiot who cant tell the difference between liking food and people. This shit is so stupid its actually spitting in the face of viewers and laughs at their intelligence.

    Im not gonna buy written by SP's retcons and forget what actually happened in the story just because they couldnt excuse Naruto's lack of interest for Hinata other way. Fuck this.

    I'm actually amazed that some people would desperately go so far for excusing NH as to buy stuff that straight out contradicts the story in the manga. But suit yourself.
     
  14. Yagami1211 The Mad Dog of Shimano !

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    Naruto didn't say anything on that matter though. It's Sakura who says that.
    And I'm not desperate, the movie says that. Not me. It's not hard to find nor a mindblowing information.

    As far as I'm concerned, Naruto ( as a story ) is set in stone now. The story is over since 4 years ago. I've made my peace with what It was and wasn't.

    I'm surprised peoples still talks about the same thing since 4 years ago. And the line Sakura said, Kishimoto wrote it himself. He said so before the movie was released. I'm sure I can find it given enough time.

    @OrganicDinosaur
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  15. HisokaRollin Sougo, my boy

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    This contradicts with the story of manga. And Kishi says a lot of things. Like that he was thinking of switching to narusaku endgame for some time and such. So yeah, Kishi may change his mind every interview he takes and Naruto still had a crush on Sakura in part 1.

    And the Last has a tons of retcons and bullshit so i dont care what was in it, im sticking to manga.
     
  16. pdmt243 Active Member

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    Google and see for yourself, boy are you gonna be in for a treat :awesome :gabe
     
  17. Yagami1211 The Mad Dog of Shimano !

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    Now who's talking headcanon here ? :hestonpls
     
  18. Sword Sage Swordsman in Training

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    I pretty much agree with this. Just thinking about if many would want to reread or rewatch Naruto again and we would go through those moments where Naruto's crush on Sakura and wants to do everything he can to win her heart until series ended with ending up with Hinata despite how little interactions they had or how even Hinata's confession didn't help progress through the manga and help Naruto change his view on Hinata and what his feelings are until Last Naruto the movie.

    The fact how after that hand holding moment, Hinata was pushed to background when Minato appeared in front of his son and Sakura healing his back. Minato asked if Sakura is Naruto's GF and answered yes that moment and compared her to Kushina that implied Sakura is his future wife in the end which she isnT. That was a complete waste of development of the manga.
     
  19. HisokaRollin Sougo, my boy

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    So now Naruto liking Sakura romantically is headcanon? Damn, what special version of manga did you read?
     
  20. Yagami1211 The Mad Dog of Shimano !

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    You're willfully ignoring what happened in the manga because it doesn't go with your headcanon. :lbj
    In chapter 3 when, Naruto turns into Sasuke to approach Sakura. Sakura says "I just want to be aknowledged by you, Sasuke-kun"
    Naruto thinks "I think I know why I like Sakura."

    We don't have a clear answer about what is this thing. Except that's what Sakura talked in the last. Naruto was attracted to Sakura because she was seeking Sasuke's attention, like Naruto.

    Sakura : You use to say you like me, but that was just because I loved Sasuke-kun. You didn't want to lose to him.

    Now you can willfully ignore what I said earlier and think this two things have nothing in common. But it's obvious what Sakura's line in The Last refers to.

    Now my turn to ask the question. What special version of manga did you read ? For not seeing this.
     
  21. Ashi Poyo!

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    I still think Naruhina is a meme

    Hinata should’ve just found her own source of confidence that didn’t stem from “N-Naruto-kun”

    Still not the worst pairing but w’ever
     
  22. Subarashii Obaa-chan

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    What if Kishi just isn't good at writing romance?
    Exhibit A: Naruto
    Exhibit B: Naruto Shippuuden

    I rest my case.
     
  23. HisokaRollin Sougo, my boy

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    You see Yagami, you try to be so clever but that's the issue- in the end you only try.

    Naruto liking romantically Sakura in part 1 is canon. Im not even Narusaku shipper but ffs im not gonna deny stuff that clearly happened.



    Oh no, but maybe he mistook her for a cup of ramen!
    :fuck Thats why he thinks he likes her! Stupid Naruto, people are not food!
    :fuck:fuck:fuck
    Look, Hinata is right there, she is always there, just wait a decade and genjutsu will make you forget anyone else was ever there for you. Hinata is life, Hinata is love.
    She loves you idiot, girls cant change their feelings so easily, you must like her back!
    .........................................


    :ohlord This is love philosophy from your beloved Last. Dude just...

    Im not gonna discuss further with you on this topic because there is nothing to discuss. Believe in whatever you want.
     
  24. SoulFire! Venerable Sage Moderator

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    The story's end backs up my 'subjective view', whether you agree or not with me or the way things ended up. That's all there is to it.

    Attention seeking tween crush, yes. Butterflies in the belly romantic love--nope. You being in denial about this doesnt change it.

    It is apparent that Naruto did not perceive Hinata's confession as romantic, but as more of a namaka revelation. Nor did Hinata press the fact of her love any further--she had not intended to confess in the first place. Naruto actually treated Hinata just as he treated those close to him whenever they met--with friendship and respect.

    It was obvious that Naruto did not understand love in respect to himself. If you can't see it I can't make you. :catshrug

    That's fine--but I will continue to respond to your posts. :wolfie
    The entire fiasco around romantic love and food hinges on one scene in the genjutsu wherein Naruto is flanderized in typical anime fashion--a brief shot of him reacting to Sakura's claim that he views the two as the same with 'they aren't?'. The anime has continually portrayed Naruto as cowardly, ridiculously rash and stupid and this is just another example of misusing the character for the sake of a chuckle. Like it or not, this time the anime's joke characterization is wedged into a 'canon' movie, but I don't consider that it truly represents Naruto's views on love any more than the filler contention that he is afraid of ghosts or continually acts without thinking.

    Just the same, we have to make sense of what we have been given. Naruto has also always been depicted as having an entirely different way of processing thought. He was always perceptive to how other people related, but had less success in understanding his own feelings. Thus his understanding of romantic love as it related to him was completely skewed. The SoSP even commented on his lack of perception about himself: "You possess quite a scrupulous and observant eye for scrutinizing others. Perhaps if you were to turn it upon yourself, you would gain a realistic comprehension of your circumstances."

    This scene was never meant to be anything but comic relief (and a bit of a troll by Kishi). None of it was to be taken seriously or meant to convey that NS was in the bag.

    Liking a girl you consider cute is hardly romantic love. Especially if she has no interest in you and treats you like crap on her shoe. A harmless tween crush spurred on sense of rivalry with that darned kid she thinks is so dreamy--until the realization dawns that just may mean more to that rival/friend than originally thought. Time to draw the curtain and move on.
     
  25. HisokaRollin Sougo, my boy

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    but i wont to yours. Sorry Soul. Your headcanons and opinions dont make facts to me and dont prove anything. Im not gonna keep arguing who is more in denial and see you write wals of text because lack of nh over years gave you tons of time to develop your excuses and theories. Because they are just this- excuses and theories.

    So yeah, thats it for me here, bye.
     
  26. SoulFire! Venerable Sage Moderator

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    :cuddle
     
  27. Suigetsu Legendary Blue

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    Cause he got married and that stopped his drive for romance, thus used the excuse that toriyama did. Except toriyama didnt dropped the ball like this guy did.
     
  28. Tom Servo Pants Pants Pants Pants

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    You can't say it's a meltdown when both sides of the shipping fandom were losing their mind. Then the same happened with SasuSaku when reality struck that Sakura was never worth much to him.
     
  29. Nataly Angel in Disguise Moderator

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    Maybe Kishimoto didn't feel right writing about romance and wasn't natural at it, it must not be his calling to describe and develop romantic relationships very well. It happens, nothing bad about it.
     
  30. SoulFire! Venerable Sage Moderator

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    This--and the fact that Kishi was more interested in the action/adventure side of his story.
     
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