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Would Luffy Soloing Kaidou still be unbelievable if

Van Basten

Black Lives Matter
Dude your high if you think EoS Luffy has a high diff fight with Kaidou. Kaidou would be lucky if he pushed EoS Luffy to Mid-Diff, and that’s being extremely generous to Kaidou given the power progression of every Shonen protagonist ever
He’s a Yonkou. He cannot be beaten easily by anyone.
 

Turrin

玄武
He’s a Yonkou. He cannot be beaten easily by anyone.
Yeah sorry I don’t subscribe to head-canon; you want to show me a written law that says a Yonko can’t be beaten easily; or is that just your assumption based on your totally lack of evidence when it comes to how strong EoS characters will be?
 

Jujubatman12

Well-Known Member
I have debated with many people the idea that Luffy will beat Kaidou 1v1 with no assistance or minimal such as against Doffy. Most people disagree because they don’t think Advanced CoA alone can bring Luffy to Kaidou’s level. However I personally believe Luffy is going to get several power ups this arc, and that his trading isn’t over with advanced CoA. Rather that he is going to end up getting ether Awakening, Multiple Gear Forms, &/or Advanced CoC as well.

I personally base this on the fact that Wano is very similar to EL, and Luffy got more then one power up to face Lucci. Also base this on the idea that there are many tough enemies and masters around in this arc where Luffy can learn in battle against, before facing Kaidou.

But regardless of whether you think this is likely or not, my question is if Luffy got several power ups instead of just CoA would that make it more realistic for him to win, and how many more power ups do you think he would need to credibly beat Kaidou
Lmfao you mean Kaido taking on 9 strong Samurais and Luffy getting assisted up some stairs by Jenbei and Sanji having a easy ass time. Solo Lmao

Yeah sorry I don’t subscribe to head-canon; you want to show me a written law that says a Yonko can’t be beaten easily; or is that just your assumption based on your totally lack of evidence when it comes to how strong EoS characters will be?
You want to show me any instance in the story where a top tier lost easily in a 1 v 1 situation. Even EOS Luffy needs at least a high diff for Kaido.
 

Van Basten

Black Lives Matter
Yeah sorry I don’t subscribe to head-canon; you want to show me a written law that says a Yonko can’t be beaten easily; or is that just your assumption based on your totally lack of evidence when it comes to how strong EoS characters will be?
Common sense is not head-canon.
 

Turrin

玄武
Common sense is not head-canon.
Can you explain how it’s common sense? Do you have any feats or statements to draw from to use to scale EoS Villains or Heroes? If not then I will take your concession that you have no argument and it’s just your head-canon
 

Strobacaxi

Well-Known Member
Yeah sorry I don’t subscribe to head-canon; you want to show me a written law that says a Yonko can’t be beaten easily; or is that just your assumption based on your totally lack of evidence when it comes to how strong EoS characters will be?
The guy who is called the strongest creature in the world, and the strongest pirate in the world can't be mid diffed by anyone. That's obvious.

EOS Characters will be similar to prime Roger/WB/Garp, and none of those can mid diff Kaidou
 

Turrin

玄武
The guy who is called the strongest creature in the world, and the strongest pirate in the world can't be mid diffed by anyone. That's obvious.

EOS Characters will be similar to prime Roger/WB/Garp, and none of those can mid diff Kaidou
Do you have any feats or statements to draw from to use to scale EoS Villains or Heroes? If not then I will take your concession that you have no argument and it’s just your head-canon
 

Strobacaxi

Well-Known Member
Do you have any feats or statements to draw from to use to scale EoS Villains or Heroes? If not then I will take your concession that you have no argument and it’s just your head-canon
Do you have any feats to draw from to use to scale EoS characters? Or do you have no arguments and it's just your head canon? With the difference that what I'm saying makes sense, while thinking the "Strongest creature in the world" can be mid diffed by anyone is just silly.

Can you explain why Roger didn't just mid diff BM instead of tricking her and stealing her poneglyph? Can you explain how before Roger died the 4 yonkous were WB, Roger, BM and Shiki?
 

Turrin

玄武
Do you have any feats to draw from to use to scale EoS characters? Or do you have no arguments and it's just your head canon? With the difference that what I'm saying makes sense, while thinking the "Strongest creature in the world" can be mid diffed by anyone is just silly.

Can you explain why Roger didn't just mid diff BM instead of tricking her and stealing her poneglyph? Can you explain how before Roger died the 4 yonkous were WB, Roger, BM and Shiki?
I’m not the one making an assertion that EoS Characters are de facto not going to exceed a certain level of strength. So I’ll take your attempt to shift the burden of proof onto me; as a concession that you have zero evidence of your assertion.
—-
Can you prove EoS characters cap out at Roger level, with actual feats and statements to support it; because if not then I have zero burden of proof when it comes to this Roger argument
 

Strobacaxi

Well-Known Member
I’m not the one making an assertion that EoS Characters are de facto not going to exceed a certain level of strength. So I’ll take your attempt to shift the burden of proof onto me; as a concession that you have zero evidence of your assertion.
—-
Can you prove EoS characters cap out at Roger level, with actual feats and statements to support it; because if not then I have zero burden of proof when it comes to this Roger argument
No, but you're the one who's making an assertion that EoS characters are going to be above anything else that has ever been shown, so I expect some evidence. Of course you don't have any so you tru to shift the burden of proof onto everyone else lol

This whole discussion is caused because you say EoS Luffy will at worst beat Kaidou mid diff. The burden of proof has always been on you, not me.

So, you have no evidence, you are talking out of your ass, and I'm done taking you seriously.
 

Turrin

玄武
No, but you're the one who's making an assertion that EoS characters are going to be above anything else that has ever been shown, so I expect some evidence. Of course you don't have any so you tru to shift the burden of proof onto everyone else lol

This whole discussion is caused because you say EoS Luffy will at worst beat Kaidou mid diff. The burden of proof has always been on you, not me.

So, you have no evidence, you are talking out of your ass, and I'm done taking you seriously.
We literally never saw Roger or Prime-WB go all out; so clearly EoS power is going to be beyond what we have seen so far unless you believe no one is reaching Roger/WB level; and we will never see Roger or Prime WB go all out on panel in Flashbacks.
—-
I stated an opinion, not a fact; you are stating a fact. Do you see the difference? If you want to concede it isn’t a fact that EoS can’t exceed a certain level; then we can talk about what our opinions are. I’ll wait for your concession.

Kid have a drink, and calm down; I know your trigged because I showed your assertion is pure head-canon, but calm down, concede you were wrong and we can have a discussion based on opinions
 

Strobacaxi

Well-Known Member
We literally never saw Roger or Prime-WB go all out; so clearly EoS power is going to be beyond what we have seen so far unless you believe no one is reaching Roger/WB level; and we will never see Roger or Prime WB go all out on panel in Flashbacks.
They fought eachother for 3 days in a "battle to the death" as Roger said. But didn't go all out. Sure thing buddy. They clashed with the literal greatest feat we've ever seen in the manga, that even a lower end top tier like Oden dropped his jaw while witnessing.

Your head canon game is weak boy

I stated an opinion, not a fact; you are stating a fact. Do you see the difference? If you want to concede it isn’t a fact that EoS can’t exceed a certain level; then we can talk about what our opinions are. I’ll wait for your concession.
Dude your high if you think EoS Luffy has a high diff fight with Kaidou. Kaidou would be lucky if he pushed EoS Luffy to Mid-Diff, and that’s being extremely generous to Kaidou given the power progression of every Shonen protagonist ever
Sure thing buddy, that sure sounds like you're not stating a fact huh?
I also didn't say EoS can't exceed a certain level, I said they'd be similar to Roger level. What you're saying is that EoS Luffy can mid diff Kaidou. That is extremely above Prime Roger, and yes, this is a fact, it's not going to happen. Roger, Rox, WB and Garp were the strongest world-known characters ever, Luffy is not going to surpass them by much, if at all.

BB is at best Kaidou level, but likely weaker currently. Akainu is at best Kaidou level. Yet you think Luffy will be able to mid diff Kaidou, despite the EoS antagonists being Kaidou level? You think Imu will be what, twice as strong as Akainu? 3x? 4x? Hell are you expecting Imu to be stronger than Roger and WB put together or something?
 

Turrin

玄武
They fought eachother for 3 days in a "battle to the death" as Roger said. But didn't go all out. Sure thing buddy. They clashed with the literal greatest feat we've ever seen in the manga, that even a lower end top tier like Oden dropped his jaw while witnessing.

Your head canon game is weak boy



Sure thing buddy, that sure sounds like you're not stating a fact huh?
I also didn't say EoS can't exceed a certain level, I said they'd be similar to Roger level. What you're saying is that EoS Luffy can mid diff Kaidou. That is extremely above Prime Roger, and yes, this is a fact, it's not going to happen. Roger, Rox, WB and Garp were the strongest world-known characters ever, Luffy is not going to surpass them by much, if at all.

BB is at best Kaidou level, but likely weaker currently. Akainu is at best Kaidou level. Yet you think Luffy will be able to mid diff Kaidou, despite the EoS antagonists being Kaidou level? You think Imu will be what, twice as strong as Akainu? 3x? 4x? Hell are you expecting Imu to be stronger than Roger and WB put together or something?
1- Did we see that battle in details; Yes or No?

2- Stating they will be similar to Roger level, is stating a fact; that they can’t exceed Roger level by much. Again you need proof for that; or you can just concede it’s an opinion. Your choice.

3- How do you know someone who can Mid-Diff Kaidou is extremely beyond Prime Roger, like what are you basing these things on you keep claiming as facts?

4- Again what basis do you have to claim EoS teach &/or antagonists will be Kaidou level. You keep throwing out baseless facts and expecting me to roll with them.
 

Strobacaxi

Well-Known Member
1- Did we see that battle in details; Yes or No?
We saw one feat. That's enough to see their level.

2- Stating they will be similar to Roger level, is stating a fact; that they can’t exceed Roger level by much. Again you need proof for that; or you can just concede it’s an opinion. Your choice.
Do you have proof stating that there's anything above Roger level? If I'm stating a fact, so are you, so please, show evidence.
You want evidence? Sure. I've given it to you, and surprise surprise, you ignored it. But sure, I'll give it again.

Luffy's EoS enemies are BB, Akainu and possibly IM. We know for a fact that Akainu is at best old WB level. So below Prime WB, which means below Prime roger and comparable to Kaidou. We know for a fact, that BB is not relevantly stronger than any of the other Yonkous, or he'd be Pirate King already.
IM is an unknown. So out of the 3 possible EoS antagonists, one is at best equal to Kaidou, and the other is at best slightly stronger than Kaidou. (Kaidou is not Prime WB or Prime Roger level as he hasn't shown feats to support this) The other is a complete unknown.

So EoS Luffy, who in your opinion can mid diff Kaidou, will have his final fights against characters on Kaidou level. That's what I call an incredibly underwhelming end of the story.

I expect you to provide some kind of evidence, reasoning or logic to why the fuck Luffy would be much stronger than Roger, considering his enemies will not be

3- How do you know someone who can Mid-Diff Kaidou is extremely beyond Prime Roger, like what are you basing these things on you keep claiming as facts?
"in a one on one fight, always bet on Kaidou" "Kaidou is the strongest pirate in the world" "Kaidou is the strongest creature in the world"
Do you even read the manga?
Kaidou is a yonkou, which puts him on Old WB level, possibly stronger. There is no evidence that WB lost so much power that his prime could mid diff his old self. Common sense says he can't.

4- Again what basis do you have to claim EoS teach &/or antagonists will be Kaidou level. You keep throwing out baseless facts and expecting me to roll with them.
If you keep ignoring the evidence I provide and then asking me to provide the same evidence again I'm going to stop replying to you
 

Turrin

玄武
We saw one feat. That's enough to see their level.


Do you have proof stating that there's anything above Roger level? If I'm stating a fact, so are you, so please, show evidence.
You want evidence? Sure. I've given it to you, and surprise surprise, you ignored it. But sure, I'll give it again.

Luffy's EoS enemies are BB, Akainu and possibly IM. We know for a fact that Akainu is at best old WB level. So below Prime WB, which means below Prime roger and comparable to Kaidou. We know for a fact, that BB is not relevantly stronger than any of the other Yonkous, or he'd be Pirate King already.
IM is an unknown. So out of the 3 possible EoS antagonists, one is at best equal to Kaidou, and the other is at best slightly stronger than Kaidou. (Kaidou is not Prime WB or Prime Roger level as he hasn't shown feats to support this) The other is a complete unknown.

So EoS Luffy, who in your opinion can mid diff Kaidou, will have his final fights against characters on Kaidou level. That's what I call an incredibly underwhelming end of the story.

I expect you to provide some kind of evidence, reasoning or logic to why the fuck Luffy would be much stronger than Roger, considering his enemies will not be


"in a one on one fight, always bet on Kaidou" "Kaidou is the strongest pirate in the world" "Kaidou is the strongest creature in the world"
Do you even read the manga?
Kaidou is a yonkou, which puts him on Old WB level, possibly stronger. There is no evidence that WB lost so much power that his prime could mid diff his old self. Common sense says he can't.


If you keep ignoring the evidence I provide and then asking me to provide the same evidence again I'm going to stop replying to you
1- WB didn’t even use the Gura Fruit there; there is no way you can tell how strong they are at their peak, based on one clash

2- I don’t need proof as I’m not stating a fact; I’m stating an opinion that it could go beyond that; do we need to go over this again; or can we move past this desperate attempt of your to shift burden of proof for assertions you are making

3- Your just stating things again without giving any proof. How do you know Teach isn’t stronger then the other Yonko. How do you know Akainu didn’t get stronger since MF. How do you know Teach or Akainu won’t get stronger before EoS. If Imu is unknown how is he at best equal to Kaidou?

Again you offer no evidence

4- No you need to show evidence his Old / Sick self could by be Mid-Diff’d by his Prime self as your the one asserting it as a fact; simply saying there is no evidence isn’t good enough as your making a positive claim

5- Your making assertions, which isn’t evidence.
 

Dellinger

Charismatic Awesome
Yeah sorry I don’t subscribe to head-canon; you want to show me a written law that says a Yonko can’t be beaten easily; or is that just your assumption based on your totally lack of evidence when it comes to how strong EoS characters will be?

Dude this is not Naruto for the last fucking time. Yonko have been the big guys since 2006. Oda won't stomp them ebcause some mighty entity might appear. This is OP not Naruto not Turrin Piece.
 

Turrin

玄武
Dude this is not Naruto for the last fucking time. Yonko have been the big guys since 2006. Oda won't stomp them ebcause some mighty entity might appear. This is OP not Naruto not Turrin Piece.
Why do you keep attacking this straw man that Naruto is the only Shonen that works this way when most Shonen do; including One Piece considering almost every major Antagonist would stomp the previous major antagonist with the only exception being Enel who Luffy had a match up advantage over; which he doesn’t appear to have on Kaidou
 

Strobacaxi

Well-Known Member
1- WB didn’t even use the Gura Fruit there; there is no way you can tell how strong they are at their peak, based on one clash
DFs don't make people top tier, haki and physical strength make people top tier.

2- I don’t need proof as I’m not stating a fact; I’m stating an opinion that it could go beyond that; do we need to go over this again; or can we move past this desperate attempt of your to shift burden of proof for assertions you are making
"Dude your high if you think EoS Luffy has a high diff fight with Kaidou. "
Again, that's stating a fact, not an opinion. But sure, you don't want to provide evidence cuz you know you're wrong, we know, don't worry

3- Your just stating things again without giving any proof. How do you know Teach isn’t stronger then the other Yonko. How do you know Akainu didn’t get stronger since MF. How do you know Teach or Akainu won’t get stronger before EoS. If Imu is unknown how is he at best equal to Kaidou?
This is the last time I'm going to repeat myself. If teach was able to mid diff other yonko, he'd be Pirate king. Is he pirate king? No. Pretty simple math there
Akainu is past his peak. Akainu has been sitting on a desk for 2 years. Akainu magically becomes stronger because you want him to. Not only that, but he goes from at best Kaidou level, to mid diffing Kaidou. Makes sense right?
Teach might get stronger, might not. Definitely won't go from Kaidou's equal at best to mid diffing Kaidou. Also, BB is in his prime in terms of age, he's not getting much stronger than he already is.
People on their late 40s early 50s start declining in OP. Stated by Oda himself. Akainu is 55. BB is 40. BB is in his prime, Akainu has passed it. None of them are going to double their power.

Try reading my posts before comenting please, I specifically said IM is not being counted.

4- No you need to show evidence his Old / Sick self could by be Mid-Diff’d by his Prime self as your the one asserting it as a fact; simply saying there is no evidence isn’t good enough as your making a positive claim

Keep hiding behind your supposed oppinion lol You have absolutely no basis for anything you're saying. I mean, I'm sorry, your basis is "this happened in other mangas so it has to happen here"

And I said the exact opposite of what you're asking for evidence. Again, read the post. You don't even try to argue.

5- Your making assertions, which isn’t evidence.
I'm done here, keep thinking a 55 year old man is going to double his power, keep thinking the world strongest pirate can ever be mid diffed, keep thinking whatever you want, I'm tired of your trolls.

If you wanna say something, try backing it up.
 

Dellinger

Charismatic Awesome
Why do you keep attacking this straw man that Naruto is the only Shonen that works this way when most Shonen do; including One Piece considering almost every major Antagonist would stomp the previous major antagonist with the only exception being Enel who Luffy had a match up advantage over; which he doesn’t appear to have on Kaidou

Moriah wouldn't stomp Lucci.

Also you are a doofus. Kaido and Teach share the same status. Kaido is also the strongest creature. How will Teach be capable of stomping him ? Because it happened in Naruto where Kaguya made Madara obsolete ? This is your logic. You don't use One Piece logic. You use Naruto logic.

Luffy will beat Teach by himself. Kaido is going to get beaten by multiple opponents. See the difference ?
 

Turrin

玄武
DFs don't make people top tier, haki and physical strength make people top tier.


"Dude your high if you think EoS Luffy has a high diff fight with Kaidou. "
Again, that's stating a fact, not an opinion. But sure, you don't want to provide evidence cuz you know you're wrong, we know, don't worry


This is the last time I'm going to repeat myself. If teach was able to mid diff other yonko, he'd be Pirate king. Is he pirate king? No. Pretty simple math there
Akainu is past his peak. Akainu has been sitting on a desk for 2 years. Akainu magically becomes stronger because you want him to. Not only that, but he goes from at best Kaidou level, to mid diffing Kaidou. Makes sense right?
Teach might get stronger, might not. Definitely won't go from Kaidou's equal at best to mid diffing Kaidou. Also, BB is in his prime in terms of age, he's not getting much stronger than he already is.
People on their late 40s early 50s start declining in OP. Stated by Oda himself. Akainu is 55. BB is 40. BB is in his prime, Akainu has passed it. None of them are going to double their power.

Try reading my posts before comenting please, I specifically said IM is not being counted.



Keep hiding behind your supposed oppinion lol You have absolutely no basis for anything you're saying. I mean, I'm sorry, your basis is "this happened in other mangas so it has to happen here"

And I said the exact opposite of what you're asking for evidence. Again, read the post. You don't even try to argue.


I'm done here, keep thinking a 55 year old man is going to double his power, keep thinking the world strongest pirate can ever be mid diffed, keep thinking whatever you want, I'm tired of your trolls.

If you wanna say something, try backing it up.
1- We literally don’t even know if they used their full Haki abilities, we saw one clash on panel.

2- That’s not stating a fact that’s stating an opinion that your high if you think X. I’m not using my opinion of you as stoner whose high on Kaidou-Stan Kush to argue my point; as you are with you Baseless assertions

3- Why would Teach be PK if he could Mid-Diff other Yonko; once again your making an assertion without providing any evidence of your claim

4- Akainu wasn’t just sitting at his desk since MF he had a 3 Day battle with Aokiji which he could have unlocked powers in; he could also be given a power boost from Vegapunk Tech; or any other means, despite being Older. Your acting like Older characters in Fiction can’t get stronger which is absolutely not true

5- Again your just making an assertion that Teach couldn’t get to the point of Mid-Diffing Kaidou; your not backing it up with any evidence

6- It was a typo you need to show evidence Prime-WB couldn’t Mid Diff his Sick/Old Self, that’s what your assertion was an I’m asking for evidence of it.

7- Concession accept that you have no evidence; and yeah don’t bother responding to any of these other points if your just going to make baseless assertions and claim them to be facts
 
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Turrin

玄武
Moriah wouldn't stomp Lucci.

Also you are a doofus. Kaido and Teach share the same status. Kaido is also the strongest creature. How will Teach be capable of stomping him ? Because it happened in Naruto where Kaguya made Madara obsolete ? This is your logic. You don't use One Piece logic. You use Naruto logic.

Luffy will beat Teach by himself. Kaido is going to get beaten by multiple opponents. See the difference ?
Moriah using Oz alone took getting a massive Power up and help of all the other Straw-Hats to beat. Then he had to Gear Stack a greater then anything he used against Lucci to barely beat Moriah after that. Lucci gets stomped.

So once again your back to attacking this straw-man that power-cliffing only happens in Naruto despite the fact that it happens in most Shonen. And your outright lying about me not giving examples from One Piece when I literally have you the examples of most Major Antagonists in the series, including literally every P2 Antagonist following this format.

If your next post is attacking this straw man or lying again I will take that as a concession on the basis of multiple logical fallacy’s and Ad Nauseam.
 

Dellinger

Charismatic Awesome
Moriah using Oz alone took getting a massive Power up and help of all the other Straw-Hats to beat. Then he had to Gear Stack a greater then anything he used against Lucci to barely beat Moriah after that. Lucci gets stomped.

So once again your back to attacking this straw-man that power-cliffing only happens in Naruto despite the fact that it happens in most Shonen. And your outright lying about me not giving examples from One Piece when I literally have you the examples of most Major Antagonists in the series, including literally every P2 Antagonist following this format.

If your next post is attacking this straw man or lying again I will take that as a concession on the basis of multiple logical fallacy’s and Ad Nauseam.

You try too hard with this. Of course Kaido would e far stronger than Katakuri. This is not something we didn't know. Something that came out as a surprise. Why ? Because he is a damn Yonko. So tha point of yours is mute.

Also again because you would skip that point of course. Teach can reamin a big threat for Luffy for a simple reason. Luffy is beating him by himself. Kaido will go through many enemies. If you can't tell the differences then it's not my fault.

Also stop bringing straw mans and Ad Nauseam trying to sound cool. You've literally been kicked around the entire section by multiple posters. You said you never claimed Luffy soloing Kaido and you posting in the damn thread you made.
 

Turrin

玄武
You try too hard with this. Of course Kaido would e far stronger than Katakuri. This is not something we didn't know. Something that came out as a surprise. Why ? Because he is a damn Yonko. So tha point of yours is mute.

Also again because you would skip that point of course. Teach can reamin a big threat for Luffy for a simple reason. Luffy is beating him by himself. Kaido will go through many enemies. If you can't tell the differences then it's not my fault.

Also stop bringing straw mans and Ad Nauseam trying to sound cool. You've literally been kicked around the entire section by multiple posters. You said you never claimed Luffy soloing Kaido and you posting in the damn thread you made.
Your attacking a straw man again; can you ever form an argument without doing so? My point wasn’t about just about Katakuri and Kaidou; it was the general progression of the power of all major antagonists in One Piece, especially P2. All of them are a greater threat to Luffy then the previous one; and most them would Low diff the previous one. You trying to make this just about Katakuri and Kaidou is dishonest.

Anything can happen on the basis of almost anything; so that point doesn’t deserve to be addressed. Where talking about what’s likely. I’m basing my prediction on what has historically happened in the series; you are expecting this one time to be different with your only evidence being , well it can happen lol
—-
I wouldn’t have to bring in those terms if you could construct one post without relying on some logical fallacy. I realize I’m neg diff slapping you but try to be a bit better
 
Dude this is not Naruto for the last fucking time. Yonko have been the big guys since 2006. Oda won't stomp them ebcause some mighty entity might appear. This is OP not Naruto not Turrin Piece.
I said this several times and I was well banned so yeah stop.


I am a Luffy fan but Kaido stays relevant even for Prime Luffy.
 
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