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[Yay for spoilers!] So. Let's look at what's going on here.

Discussion in 'Bleach' started by Sakura Kaijuu, Oct 21, 2006.

  1. Sakura Kaijuu

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    Jesus. So there have been soooo many threads about what's wrong and what's right and how could Kubo have done this to us, I mean it's so predictable and it's such utter bullshit.

    It's kind of getting on my nerves a bit.

    It's awfully reminiscent of the most recent Sasuke rescue arc thing. And while I admit that I'm one of the people who was complaining bitterly at its dumbness, since Naruto has been on the upswing again (mostly...) I have more faith in both series and their authors' abilities to resolve the conflict and move on in the story.

    This is all stuff that I've been thinking about for the past week or so, and today I was just bored enough to put it all down on paper (I'd like to see you stay awake and attentive to a lecture on color theory... >_< )

    Spoiler: And so...

    Spoiler: In case it's entirely illegible
    Hm. The bitching about Bleach right now sounds a lot like the bitching about Naruto during the Sai/Yamato Arc. Surprise, surprise.
    Kitsune-me: Point Number One:
    After a mission in which team members are incapacitated, new/long disused characters show up to replace them.

    Naruto:
    Kakashi is out after Akatsuki dealie (on the margin of the picture: Hee hee. He's so cute!!)
    Yamato replaces Kakashi
    Sai replaces Sasuke

    Bleach:
    Hitsugaya and the other shinigami leave after Hime is kidnapped.
    Renji omes back and assumes the leader position. With new, unknown powers (probably)
    Ishida comes back with new, unknown powers.
    Chad comes back with new, unknown powers.


    Spoiler: Again, if illegible, click this
    Kitsune-me: Point Number Two
    Kubo and Kishimoto have turned Sasuke and Orihime into important characters that they can't just abandon forever. They have to go back to them fairly soon after they disappear.

    Kitune-me: And point Number Three
    However, right after Kishi dealt with the Sasuke thing a little bit, Naruto went bak to being totally awesome.

    And we have no idea how Kubo's going to resolve this plot point, and for all we know it's going to be extremely awesome.

    Plus is it really worth the bitching when Kubo's art is so kickass?
     
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  2. cinosweiv

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    Your drawings are so good.
     
  3. Eurys

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    I'm sorry, I can't concentrate on what's written *stares at the pretty pictures*

    Anyway, yes, everyone, even myself, is complaining at Bleach. I think the current arc is badly paced and it could make an interesting read as a whole volume, but each chapter taken separately is rather dull and slow, as well as predictable.
    So it's a bad start, but it doesn't mean the whole arc will suck. We'll have to wait to get the big picture.
     
  4. Trias

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    First of all, take this:
    Spoiler:


    This is the proper response for you more than everything.

    It's very dirty since I fail manage keep paper clean after I finish my stuff everytime, and it's low quality since I don't have a scanner and my pencil thingies' quality is not good, unlike some certain person else. :/

    Beware of Killer Wooden Giraffes of Doom, btw.



    Now.

    No it doesn't sound like that. Not at all.

    I think similarities you've made looks for forced. New guys coming in with new powers is a thing that you can see in almost any shonen manga. Plus, Yamato and Sai are totally new characters, and already got their character developments, and helped plot to develop further. Do anyone thinks that we'll see that much character or plot development from Chad and Ishida? I don't think at all.

    Plus, what bothers we "bitchers" is not about character similarities or stuff like that. It's how that fool Kubo pulls them out.

    Everything that was done in Yamato Arc, was totally "natural" looking, while everything this far in Bleach, looks forced. Yamato had known that they'd get their ass owned if they went against Orochimaru... he thought like that until Kyuubi Naruto took on.

    After they got into Orochi's lair, they still didn't rush to kill Orochimaru and Kabuto, then take Sasuke back to Konoha. They planned everything, then agreed on finding Sasuke first and evading any other fight if possible. They didn't want to rush enemies much more powerful than them and outnumber them by twice their numbers, unlike some other people else.

    The things that were done in Yamato Arc were natural things that characters would do in situations like that, while everything seems forced for plot's sake in Bleach. Why did they do like that? Because plot needed it. Holy shit.

    Fairly soon? Naruto and others went after Sasuke... after 2.5 years. :oh

    I say that it's going to be extremely cheap, not extremely awesome. I don't know how losers like Rukia and Renji going to beat survive against Espada otherwise.

    Though again, as I said, it's not about Naruto-Bleach similarities. It's about how Kishimoto makes things up logically and Naruto's plot development looks natural, while Kubo forces things to adapt to plot, and Bleach's story looks like a real mass of coincidences and luck and sudden changes.

    Plus, is it really worth denying the fact that Naruto got better than Bleach, when Killer Wooden Giraffes of Doom are so kickass?

    Oh my god, your naruto chibies are even deadlier than Bleach ones. Well, not surprising since Naruto > Bleach now. That Kakashi really is so cute, and Sai's smile is funny too. Sasuke looks cool! Yamato's expression is a bit weird but none the less, they all look so cute.
     
  5. omg laser pew pew!

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    And FMA > Naruto + Bleach!

    No seriously, I can't stop laughing at VI and SK's pictures

    I'll give a proper response when I get off the floor
     
  6. chibi15

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    Those pictures are SOOOO kickass!!! XD XD XD
     
  7. Khamzul

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    I find it cool how you draw the post, with great illustrations as always. Liked your picture aswell Trias.

    I think that while the Bleach series are not top-notch when it comes to story - the definitely have amazing art. Add in a multitude of amazing powerups (allowed by the not top-notch story) we got ourselves very good entertainment.

    I usually leave out KWGoD and Genma when I'm comparing series, just so it still has a point.

    And I think we might have alot to look forward to, first off will be the five fights. They will probably reveal a uncompleteted Rukia bankai, and probably some reinforcements during the retreat.

    Still, what I'm more exited about is "the winter war". I wonder how a largescale war in Bleach will be like. Probably a multitude of individual scenarios.

    By the way, with the new way the storyline is going (as of the newest chapter) doesn't that open for more unpredictability?
     
  8. Last of the Arrancar

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    We'll see what happens in the upcoming chapter ....

    IMO the whole mission really is stupid.

    - Rukia can take on a midiocre Gillian Arrancar ( Aizen problably has at least 20 of those running around now. )
    - Renji could probably take on a strong Gillian Arrancar ( Again, he will be seriously outnumbered )
    - The holy trinity would be able to take on weak to mediocre Espada ( got about 5 of those running around, and about 5 uber strong Espada, wich they'll never be able to beat )
    - So they are SERIOUSLY outnumbered.
    - And they have no healer.
    - They have entered he castle with a loud bang, their presence is offcourse noted.
    - They seperate ..... when they stand a lot more chance against individual arrancars when they remain in pairs of 2 or 3. You can blaim the bitch Rukia for being uber cocky and not wanting to be helped. I hope she gets severely F*CKED

    And ...

    - Hime is now Aizen's bitch. She's not gonna want to return with them if they get to her.

    And ...

    - Aizen isn't stupid
    - He told his Espada's to not do anything. Just wait.
    - Why ? Because he has Hime cornered and he has her convinced she's his bitch. It's not like Ulqu had to drag her to her knees and beat her senseless to get her to admit she's Aizen's now.
    - So he'll let them play with his Gillian arrancar, and when they get all beaten up and finally get to Hime, he'll be standing next to her, and he'll ask her what her place is. And she'll tell everyone that her place is with Aizen in Las Noches.
    - Oh yeah, then there's the interest Aizen has in Ichigo. And in that you can find the reason that Aizen also didn't dispatch his Espada. He wants Ichigo to get into Las Noches. He wants to see what Ichigo is capable of, and he'll catch him right after Hime has told them to fuck off.

    So there.
     
  9. Sakura Kaijuu

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    Haha...That's so freaking awesome. Finally I have someone to fight with with my doodles. Yay!

    Anyway. I'm just saying that the complaining is very similar. I'm not overly thrilled with this arc either, except that Ichigo isn't depressed and it has a lot of Orihime and the Espada (not to mention the fact that Orihime has a new outfit).

    They are outnumbered and they are probably doomed to failure. I'm just tired of the whining/complaining about it.

    I meant soon reading-wise. Between Sasuke's disappearance and them going after him there was the Kakashi Gaiden and the Sasori/Gaara thing. If Kishi had detailed every moment of those two and a half years of training and junk then yes, it would have been a very long time before we saw Sasuke again.
     
  10. T4R0K

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    Ulqi eatin heads pwns.

    And your Kakashi is awesome

    people "but your opinion on the theory ?"

    Oh... It's decent. I agree
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2006
  11. zagman505

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    omg i love your drawings!!!

    and... i kinda agree. not too sure, the drawings were slightly distracting.
     
  12. Sakura Kaijuu

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    Heh. So basically I win because I distract people with drawings. Interesting. ^______^
     
  13. Trias

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    You cheat.
     
  14. Jimmie

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    Why do you have a tail and extra ears?
     
  15. Woofie

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    Indeed, indeed. I had faith that Naruto would pick up again (I think it will pick up even more from here on), and I have faith that Bleach will too. It isn't that Kishimoto and Kubo have suddenly, permenantly lost their ability to write... they've just had slightly dry spells, which I think is understandable after 6 years of writing a new chapter every week.

    I think the main thing to remember about both this arc in Bleach and the last arc in Naruto is that neither of them are really important; they're just small diversions in which nothing important will really happen, because the main event will be a a few months (or years) later - Sasuke won't be rescued for real until next year sometime, and the real fight against Aizen and the Arrancar will probably be about the same time. I guess you could call then filler arcs, in the manga sense of the word. And I'd bet my life that as soon as the we get back to the core plot and to the main events, it'll become way better almost instantly. :)


    Almost every manga I've read has had bits where it got boring (except Cardcaptor Sakura, which is perfect in every way >_>), but most of them have picked back up. :)
     
  16. Kimi Sama

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    Hehe, the drawings are great, especialy the kitsune chibi looking so bored at having to explain. I'd copy Trias and reply with a doodle if I had talent/a scanner. And yes, Kakashi is adorable there.

    But anyway, I don't really agree with your points. Or rather, I do, but they don't match my own problems with Bleach at present.

    I don't really mind that the rescue mission is retarded and doomed to fail, because or that Renji and Rukia will be a centrepiece now, or that everyone has new powers now to take the focus from Ichigo.

    All of those things happen in alot of manga all the time. Naruto has had two failed no-chance rescues in a row, Bleach had a sucessful no-chance rescue with SS, and OP has just finished a sucessful no-chance rescue as well.
    And of course moving the character set about and giving them new abilities is a given in any manga.

    What bugs me so much is the utterly clumsy way Kubo is making these things happen at the moment. Almost everything since 'Hime's abduction has seemed very forced.

    Byakuya helping Rukia and Renji get to HM, for example, could have been fine, except there was basically no set up for it at all. If Kubo had given us a nice scene with Rukia and Renji convincing him, or something, that'd probably be ok. But as it is it just comes across as a convenient excuse for the duo to arrive in HM.

    Nell and the Retarded Desert Bros, likewise. Nell is somewhat fufilling a Hanatarou role by explaining a few things, and that's fine. Good hollows would have been fine too, if there was some set up. But as it is we've gone from the idea that all Hollows are evil to the core, straight into there being lonely goofy Hollows who prefer playing tag to eating children.

    And recently, with the splitting up. Pairing off with an enemy is a standard shounen plot, and all manga do it all the time, so that's fine. But Kubo's handling of it was horrendous.
    Rukia is some how annoyed and suprised Ichigo is worried about her. As if he hadn't gone to SS just to save her. Or she hadn't nearly died in the last 2 fights. Or they weren't actually there because they were both worried about 'Hime.
    And Renji suddenly seems to think honour is more important than actually helping your friends, despite the fact he fought to save Rukia in the past. And that they are on a rescue mission, not just after a fight, and that working together to save 'Hime is alot smarter than fighting alone for the sake of it.

    Why couldn't Kubo have just forced them to split off with no choice, rather than degrading the character's integrity?

    So, to conclude, I don't have a problem with the events, as most of them have been staple shounen plot devices. I just dislike the extremely clumsy and perhaps lazy way Kubo has made the events transpire.

    Still don't hate it as much as the 2nd rescue Sasuke arc, of course, because at least there is no Sai character with his hideously badly done 'lack of emotion' and subsequent random change of heart.

    So far, anyway

    ooo I typed alot. even concluded and everything.... goddamn I'm bored
     
  17. Kurosaki Taichou

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    OK im probz the most n00b member of the forums, but!
    i have to ask!!

    wat are these KILLER WODDEN GIRRAFES OF DOOM?!

    ive seen so many and still have no idea.

    can sum1 help me out please??
    thnx
     
  18. Dr.Douchebag

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    i like both series and when comparing the two which i dont like to do sometimes bleach will be better sometimes naruto will be better thats just the way it goes
     
  19. blazingshadow

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    no espada will be involved in this arc. maybe grimm disobeys and ulquiorra talks with ichigo along with orihime but the others will stay put like aizen ordered and they won't fight. the rescue rangers are going to win all their fights against numeros until they are forced back to earth by orihime

    oh and i can't see trias' pic no matter what i do
     
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