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Yoda VS King Mickey Discussion

Samurai Navarre

The Angel of Death
@accountmaker @Tacocat

Thank you for helping explain. Hopefully people will soon understand that Kingdom Hearts is the perfect verse to pit against Star Wars. Star Wars is one of those verses that doesn't seem to have many good potential match ups. Since not many verses have a bladed weapon that can be used to Duel against a lightsaber. (At least not to my knowledge) And the fact that apparently most verses can't resist the kind of mind hax Star Wars has either. Because of that, most verses either get stomped by them or stomp them. Kingdom Hearts on the other hand is very similar for all the reasons accountmaker said. And the Keyblade Masters should have the physical stats needed to stand up to the Jedi Masters and Sith Lords as well as strong enough will to resist being mindfucked. I also love how the Keyblade can be used to Duel against a lightsaber as well as against regular swords.

As for the current match up, The two should be close enough in speed for neither one to be able to blitz the other. If we talk about swordplay, Yoda obviously has far more experience in this category. But King Mickey is no slouch. He's shown to have a similar fighting style. And even though he doesn't have The Force, he has a great amount of Light Magic. And his will should be more than strong enough to resist Yoda's mind hax. And King Mickey has more moves in his Light Magic arsenal than Yoda does in his Force arsenal. King Mickey has seen some shit. He's fought in a great war just like Yoda has and persevered through it. You definitely can't say he's not a veteran fighter too.
 

GregSteve

Well-Known Member
Dont lower level Force users than Sidious and Yoda have mind fuck feats that span Galaxies? How the fuck they not making any KH character think they're a sentient toaster the second the match starts?
 

Fang

Titan
Hopefully people will soon understand that Kingdom Hearts is the perfect verse to pit against Star Wars.
Wrong.
Star Wars is one of those verses that doesn't seem to have many good potential match ups.
Wrong.
As for the current match up, The two should be close enough in speed for neither one to be able to blitz the other.
Wrong. This was already covered by @TrueG 37
If we talk about swordplay, Yoda obviously has far more experience in this category. But King Mickey is no slouch. He's shown to have a similar fighting style. And even though he doesn't have The Force, he has a great amount of Light Magic. And his will should be more than strong enough to resist Yoda's mind hax. And King Mickey has more moves in his Light Magic arsenal than Yoda does in his Force arsenal. King Mickey has seen some shit. He's fought in a great war just like Yoda has and persevered through it. You definitely can't say he's not a veteran fighter too.
You are wrong on everything you said.
 

Catalyst75

Well-Known Member
Dont lower level Force users than Sidious and Yoda have mind fuck feats that span Galaxies? How the fuck they not making any KH character think they're a sentient toaster the second the match starts?

Because there is an established example of an individual with a strong mind, Cad Bane - a non-Force wielder - resisting three powerful Force wielders at once, even though it still caused him great pain.

Any character with a strong enough will could potentially resist even a powerful Jedi's mind influencing abilities.
 

Fang

Titan
>comparing a fucking mind-trick with actual mind-control

How to identify someone who still attempts to pass off their knowledge of a fiction as being proper
 

Catalyst75

Well-Known Member
>comparing a fucking mind-trick with actual mind-control

How to identify someone who still attempts to pass off their knowledge of a fiction as being proper

Well, excuse me for actually bringing up the canonical limitations of Force abilities that manipulate the mind, mind trick or otherwise, instead of pretending said limitations don't exist.
 

Fang

Titan
Well, excuse me for actually bringing up the canonical limitations of Force abilities that manipulate the mind, mind trick or otherwise, instead of pretending said limitations don't exist.
Stop talking about about Disney Star Wars in a thread, as poorly wrought as it was, that pits Lucas canon/continuity Star Wars against Kingdom Hearts. Every bloody time with your nonsense, with your passive aggressive baiting, and your utterly repugnant attempt to shoe-horn in Disney's continuity or limitations and weaker standing in with Lucas' continuity.

And at any rate a Jedi mind-trick is not the same as actual mind-control and telepathic domination. Don't worry, I've already used my clairvoyance to see you repeating something despite me making this distinction for you.
 

TrueG 37

Well-Known Member
@accountmaker @Tacocat

Thank you for helping explain. Hopefully people will soon understand that Kingdom Hearts is the perfect verse to pit against Star Wars. Star Wars is one of those verses that doesn't seem to have many good potential match ups. Since not many verses have a bladed weapon that can be used to Duel against a lightsaber. (At least not to my knowledge) And the fact that apparently most verses can't resist the kind of mind hax Star Wars has either. Because of that, most verses either get stomped by them or stomp them. Kingdom Hearts on the other hand is very similar for all the reasons accountmaker said. And the Keyblade Masters should have the physical stats needed to stand up to the Jedi Masters and Sith Lords as well as strong enough will to resist being mindfucked. I also love how the Keyblade can be used to Duel against a lightsaber as well as against regular swords.

As for the current match up, The two should be close enough in speed for neither one to be able to blitz the other. If we talk about swordplay, Yoda obviously has far more experience in this category. But King Mickey is no slouch. He's shown to have a similar fighting style. And even though he doesn't have The Force, he has a great amount of Light Magic. And his will should be more than strong enough to resist Yoda's mind hax. And King Mickey has more moves in his Light Magic arsenal than Yoda does in his Force arsenal. King Mickey has seen some shit. He's fought in a great war just like Yoda has and persevered through it. You definitely can't say he's not a veteran fighter too.
> I love how the keyblade can be used against a lightsaber

Like I mentioned before that would depend on how strong the wielder is. Axel's had his casually destroyed by Xemnas and a swarm of heartless destroyed Riku's way to the dawn keyblade which prompted him to have a new one built.

>Keyblade Masters have the stats

They aren't made equal. Eraqus was easily shat on by Xehanort despite them training together and even in old age Xehanort is considered the strongest keyblade master in history. Dude shat on Terra(without his darkness boost) Aqua and Ven with just some telekinesis and magic. Terra with his darkness boost kills Eraqus despite the fact that he's been a master for years.

>Mickey's strong enough to resist mind hax from jedi

Their shit spans entire galaxies in an instant. Mickey's feats (considering how the realm of darkness works) is not getting instantly corroded because he got out just in time. Compared to Riku who fell asleep and got bailed out by Diz(Ansem the wise) and even when he was in the place he couldn't do anything but barely materialize a light based projection of himself outside it. Other mindfuck stuff in the series is Xehanort leading Sora to deeper darkness and having him get his mind shattered,falling asleep and nearly getting his heart removed. That and Terra occasionally fighting control against Xehanort for his body until he failed for several years and his will animating his armor.
 

Catalyst75

Well-Known Member
Stop talking about about Disney Star Wars in a thread...
Disney Star Wars? That was season 2, episode 3 of The Clone Wars, three years before Disney acquired Lucasfilms. So, it does still apply to EU/Legends continuity. You'll have to give a better argument as to why a scene from The Clone Wars TV series wouldn't apply in this case.
 

Fang

Titan
Disney Star Wars? That was season 2, episode 3 of The Clone Wars, three years before Disney acquired Lucasfilms. So, it does still apply to EU/Legends continuity. You'll have to give a better argument as to why a scene from The Clone Wars TV series wouldn't apply in this case.
There is no such thing as "EU/Legends" continuity, there is only George Lucas' Star Wars and Disney Star Wars, stop playing the semantics game here.

And I am generally not interested into having the same beaten to dead horse argument with you in every Star Wars vs thread so you can attempt to passive-aggressive bait me or anyone else into calling you out so you can run to one of your mod friends. You are a broken record. You were insinuating the same bullshit as you are always want to do with trying to push the dial with Disney only Star Wars canon, you fool no one with your gimmicks.

Secondly you have shot yourself in the foot.

1. Obi-Wan talks about compelling Bane, when Ashoka brings up the group using the Force on Cad Bane
2. At no point did Anakin, Windu, or Obi-Wan attempt to actually mentally control him, only to try and get him to voluntarily give up the information
3. If the TV series is CONTRADICTED by the higher canon (films and film novelization) as well as other media, then its overridden
4. The entire group sequence of them attempting to use a Jedi mental probe was also them holding back from DESTROYING BANE'S MIND which you cherrypicked and ignored from mentioning which handicapped the Jedi due to their morals
5. Why the fuck are you comparing Anakin's use of a Jedi mind trick with Obi-Wan's to gauge Yoda whose a peer for Sidious who could casually mind-control Grievous without trying on the Invisible Hand to make him repeat himself?
 
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Catalyst75

Well-Known Member
1. Obi-Wan talks about compelling Bane, when Ashoka brings up the group using the Force on Cad Bane
2. At no point did Anakin, Windu, or Obi-Wan attempt to actually mentally control him, only to try and get him to voluntarily give up the information
3. If the TV series is CONTRADICTED by the higher canon (films and film novelization) as well as other media, then its overridden
4. The entire group sequence of them attempting to use a Jedi mental probe was also them holding back from DESTROYING BANE'S MIND which you cherrypicked and ignored from mentioning which handicapped the Jedi due to their morals
5. Why the fuck are you comparing Anakin's use of a Jedi mind trick wit Obi-Wan's to gauge Yoda whose a peer for Sidious who could casually mind-control Grievous without trying on the Invisible Hand to make him repeat himself?

1. The discussion leads into how using the Force on a strong mind could destroy it in the process if pushed too far.
2. The scene wasn't just about getting him to "give up information"; they wanted him to take them directly to the Holocron, and were trying to compel him to do so.
3. Last I was aware, , so it would be The Clone Wars that overrode other stories when there were differences or contradictions.
4. From the depiction of the scene, it more appears they just stopped short of destroying his mind, with all the pain Cad Bane was in.
5. You forgot to mention Mace Windu's involvement in that scene, who was one of two Jedi said to be able to contend Sidious (and demonstrated to do so), and was second only to Yoda. So, you have the Chosen One, Obi-Wan, and Mace Windu combined unable to force Cad Bane, who is not a Force wielder, to take them to the Holocron against his will. When he complied afterwards, it was with the intention to lead them into a trap and make his escape, which he succeeded in doing so.
 

Fang

Titan

1. The discussion leads into how using the Force on a strong mind could destroy it in the process if pushed too far.
The attempt was a collective Jedi Mind Trick being used on Cad Bane, which they state would destroy the mind. The point of the interrogation was to attempt to influence Bane to WILLINGLY give them the information they wanted with the threat of losing his mind, rather than with suggestion through the Force, not actual mind-control. Do you want me to keep repeating this?
2. The scene wasn't just about getting him to "give up information"; they wanted him to take them directly to the Holocron, and were trying to compel him to do so.
False. Obi-Wan states using "The Force to compel a strong mind to COOPERATE" is the operative component of their plan before they tried to mind-trick Bane. I know reading comprehension is a difficult task for you to grasp but cherrypicking what you see and ignoring the context does not fly here.
3. Last I was aware, , so it would be The Clone Wars that overrode other stories when there were differences or contradictions.\
Last I checked, I have immensely more knowledge first-hand on Star Wars then you will ever hope to posses and forget more about this franchise then you will ever absorb despite your attempts to glean EU knowledge by obessively looking at Respect Threads third-handedly.

Secondly, the film novelizations in Lucas' Star Wars are G-canon tier and on top of that, Return of the Jedi directly shows Vader reading Luke's mind despite his attempts to shield himself from Vader's telepathic probing to learn that Leia is his twin sister, the same Vader who is still inferior to Yoda. So are you going to argue with your weak position, that the Revenge of the Sith novelization which was edited, word for word, passage by passage and rewritten when and where Lucas chose to input his changes to Matthew Stover on top of the fact the Return of the Jedi film and novelization contradict the lower canon TV series as not being valid?

Also do you also not know what a contradiction is? Because that is something being shown to be the OPPOSITE of what is possible, not what is shown as not being established.
4. From the depiction of the scene, it more appears they just stopped short of destroying his mind, with all the pain Cad Bane was in.
I do not care what you are predisposed into thinking or believing. They did not seriously attempt to mind-control Bane, they simply attempted a probe with a Jedi Mind Trick into making Bane give them the information to avoid further psychic pain, which was always their intent. I know subtext is a hard issue for you but it is there plain as day.
5. You forgot to mention Mace Windu's involvement in that scene, who was one of two Jedi said to be able to contend Sidious (and demonstrated to do so), and was second only to Yoda.
I do not care because I have addressed this already. I also do not care for your attempt at using circular arguments to try and make a feedback loop on you inventing something where nothing exists to backpedal. It was a casual Jedi Mind Trick by three with no serious attempt to actually influence Bane beyond his own impulses and cognition; which is further shown in the clip that none of them were trying particularly hard with the lack of actual heavy concentration or meditative stances. Yoda is more powerful than Windu and noted to be far better than him at telepathy and mental powers anyways so the claim you are making is invalidated.

You know, the same Yoda who has read Dooku and Obi-Wan's minds and thoughts at will even when one was a full trained Sith Lord and the other a seasoned Jedi Master. But go ahead with those false equivalencies still.
So, you have the Chosen One, Obi-Wan, and Mace Windu combined unable to force Cad Bane, who is not a Force wielder, to take them to the Holocron against his will. When he complied afterwards, it was with the intention to lead them into a trap and make his escape, which he succeeded in doing so.
So you are still operating on circular arguments despite the fact:

- its contradicted by the Revenge of the Sith novelization (G-Canon)
- its contradicted by the Return of the Jedi novelization (G-Canon)
- its contradicted by the Return of the Jedi film (G-Canon)
- missing the context that it was not a serious attempt at mentally controlling him and only using the Jedi Mind Trick to try and trick him and the Jedi holding back from destroying his mind (which they strenuously state and are more concerned about not destroying him psychically then actually retrieving the information due to their morals/ethics but keep skipping on that too)
- And still attempt to use all of this nonsense to try and downplay Yoda who as I stated is on the same level as Sidious who can casually mind-control thousands of Senators and even strong willed beings like Grievous without effort

Good to know your done here.
 
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Matta Clatta

DBZ Fanboy
Da 5 bloods vs Darth Maul

Oh and yes 3 jedi masters unable to mentally influence cad bane is a poor showing for offensive force telepathy anyone saying Yoda could use bigger techniques when its shown that his contemporaries can't even probe/force a bounty hunter for info without destroying his mind means their force telepathy is on the unrefined lower tier of effective.
Until further proof is brought that trumps Clone Wars canon I posit Force telepathy can't be used offensively anymore

:giogio2
 
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