1. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice

Yon-Daime Might Be Alive (worth reading i promise)

Discussion in 'Naruto Theories' started by shinryuyasha, Feb 9, 2005.

  1. shinryuyasha

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    i just had a huge brain spark on this whole yon-daime dead thing and when i come down to it when u combine the outcomes of yondaime's sealing jutsu that kick ass death god that uses your soul and seals the other persons soul thingy , its actually quite weird as hell i remember when sarutobi (san-daime) was using the tecknique he used kage bunshin and made 2 copies of himself he sealed the first and second hokage with the other 2 bunshins and he sealed orochimaru's arms with his real body. so this brings me to my point this jutsu sacrifices its caster to seal its opponent hence why we belive yondaime is dead and sarutobi is dead.

    so then what if yondaime used kage bunshin too and made a copy of himself uses his flash tecknique to dissapear and the bunshin dies and ppl think he dies. so before u guys think this is impossible sarutobi DID NOT die when he sealed the first and second hokage so then.....why not just have used bunshins to seal orochimaru in the first place and why didn't yondaime do that as well. also if u use the tecknique to seal the person away into the death gods stomach why is kyuubi in naruto? sarutobi did mention that he was using the same tecknique yondaime used on the kyuubi to seal him. so what is going on out of no where i realize all of this and its confusing as hell.

    point one 1.)tecknique seals opponent who it is used on in the shinihami's stomach (like happened to first second fourth and orochimaru's arms also remember sarutobi apologized cuz their souls were going to "hell" or sum type of it) so why is kyuubi in naruto.
    Point two 2.) sarutobi used kagebunshin to seal 2 hokage's (2 souls) so does that mean a kage bunshin has a soul? so that would bring my theary of why yondaime was stupid to sacrifice himself instead of just sacrificing a clone

    so maybe he did and this brings me ultimately to my conclusion IF yon-daime did do this (sac. a clone and run awaywhiel sumhow putting kyuubi into naruto instead of the shinigami's stomach) there is a 70% chance that he is the leader of Akatsuki. i do not know if this is 100% true but i think i recall itachi or sumone saying that Akatsuki's TRUE purpose was to gain the powers of the kyuubi. so if this is true it would bring yondaime to be leader of Akatsuki to a new 85%. i hope i am wrong because if i figured out the plot of this i would be very dissapointed........

    please people i want some SERIOUSE feed back on this and please feel free to bring up new views even proof supporting or proving my theory wrong i would seriousely appreciate it thank you ^_^ lots of luv for all of ya naruto fans ^_^ <3
     
    Tags:
  2. ChickenPotPie

    Messages:
    4,179
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2004
    uhh...I think I answered this in that other thread.
     
  3. Axass

    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    311
    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    The point is, I think that when you summon the Death God, you'll have to give him your soul, no matter if you seal someone after that or not. Or else everybody would just keep doing the sealing jutsu using kage bunshins.
     
  4. YamazakiSusumu

    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Kage Bunshin don't have souls. You've gotta give him you're soul in order to do the jutsu. Probably as soon as you summon the Shinigami, there's no way out of it cause he'll take your soul even if you don't get him someone else's.
     
  5. shinryuyasha

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    i see......then u know what would be wierd IF it is like that then Yondaime and the Fourth performed them right? ofcourse they did, the thing is how can u perform a jutsu without even practicing it? you can't just perform jutsu's without practicing it its basic knowledge i guess it would be possible if it was a contract summon like gamabunta but sarutobi said "Yon-Daime's Justsu" meaning he created it right? and if it is a contract how did sarutobi perform it without signing the contract cuz b 4 u think he did do nto assume he didn't if sarutobi did sign the contract he would have sacrificed himself instead protecting konoha instead of letting such a young hokage kill himself instead. n i think the jutsu doesn't kill u if you don't seal sumtin, i think u HAVE to seal sumtin in order for it to fully work
     
  6. Genjing

    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    I see it as an equal price thing.

    Kyubi > Yondaime, therefore he can only seal, not kill.
    Kage bunshin = Undead summoning; both are sorta alive, but not really. Therefore the price paid to the death god is worth it.

    And the user dies regardless. I'd think its the penalty for even making the death god come out.
     
  7. SonicTron

    Messages:
    2,678
    Likes Received:
    84
    Trophy Points:
    993
    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    It probably has something to do with communicating before hand with the death god.....you know, a la a ouija board hehe :)
     
  8. falconmain

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    I believe it is a contract that is signed with your death. The contract naruto signed was a line of succession thing. If you summon something that has the purpose of killing you there is no point in a contract thing like naruto signed. Also at high levels of understanding you appply what you know to create new techinques at low levels of understanding you practice things till you learn a new technique. both of the hokages had a high understanding of what they are doing and thus don't need to practice it especially since it kills you once you summon it. About the third doing the jutsu instead of the 4th we really don't know the whole situation it is entirely possible that the 4th was the only one that knew it and said what he was going to do as he performed the jutsu. it's really up for debate how exactly it went down. plus I don't think both of them are alive since from the very beginning it was stated that the 4th sacrificed himself so it would be really lame at the very end to say oops I wasn't really dead.
     
  9. Shishou

    Messages:
    2,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    318
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    This belongs in Theories.
     
  10. shinryuyasha

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    well , the "high understanding thing" seems debatable but it still does not solve that u can perform a jutsu out of the blue , u need to learn how to perform it and sarutobi stated that it "WAS" indeed yondaime's tecknique no one else knew it which would make sence to why he was the one that sacrificed himself instead. and thansk for clarrifying that there is no possibility of it being a contract since u will be dead when u do it but it might be a suicide contract like "if u ever come in terms of having to sumon thee u will pay with your lifeor give life that is not yours in return" sumtin liek that would be kool. i still belive that u can summon him without having to kill urself as long as u don't seal sumtin , cuz u can summon many different lv frogs and dogs etc and they dun neccesarily have to do sumtin for u to summon them.
     
  11. Malthara

    Messages:
    119
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2005
    There's only 1 thing I wondered. After using that jutsu how'd he put Kyuubi in the newborn baby.. I mean it kills you right after so what was there a baby brought to him on the battlefield while the death god is floating behind him with his arm through him waiting. Though it was probably a variation of the technique I guess. Heck if you watch the first episode Yondaime shines in a flash of light then a the newbaby is born it kinda looks like he was reincarnated since the person who does the jutsu with the death god gets the mark on their stomach.
     
  12. Sawako

    Messages:
    15,086
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    492
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Umm. Yeah. Or Yondaime could actually be dead?

    The reason why the Sarutobi's soul was taken after sealing the first and the second was because he was still trying to seal Orochimaru.
     
  13. shinryuyasha

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    the tecknique doesn't neccesarily kill u phycically , its liek it takes your soul out (if it is complete not like it happen with orochimaru) so it is sealing u away into the shinigami's stomach it just happens that ur body can't live without ur soul so maybe u know what , maybe your body is still alive just immobolized like a container...hmm maybe orochimaru could use this to his avantage and take saru's body lmao (highly impossible but u get the idea). thats what i find weird instead of sealing the kyuubi into the shinigami's stomach he sealed it into naruto for him to use its power instead of it going to waste.
     
  14. shinryuyasha

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    OMG MALTHARA U R A GEnIUS. OMG he is 100% CORRECT the person who seals or performs the seal gets the seal on their stomach and naruto has the seal on his stomach!!!!!!!! OMG THIS IS A 75% CHANCE THAT YONDAIME IS NARUTO. omg i need sec to comprehend all this.......(goes wild in background) i thank u very very much for bringing such a missed point malthara i love u very much ^__^ this thread just keeps getting better n better please come bak and give us more feed back.
     
  15. changsta

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    1) I think that if you sacrifice your soul it doesn't mean that it is a soul for a soul. Yondaime sealed the Kyubi, which is very powerful, more powerful than the 1st Hokage, 2nd Hokage, and Orochimaru. It's not like it's the 1st Hokage's soul in Sarutobi's first bushin, and 2nd Hokage's soul in the second bushin.

    2) Why the heck would Yondaime run off? That conclusion makes no sense.

    3) Why would Yondaime join some renegade group to get back Kyubi? He is the 4th Hokage, I do not think he is evil in any sort of way.

    4) I think that when you use the death seal you can choose where you put it. I think it has to be alive body though. Sarutobi had no other bodies handy for him to put it in but it doesn't matter, he was going to die anyways. Yondaime put the Kyubi in Naruto's body for a purpose though.

    5) If some weird reason you are right, I don't think that would be a great way to end the Naruto sage, so many people would be dissappointed.
     
  16. shinryuyasha

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    ok the reason why he would run off is because he didn't want people knowing he was alive. also u just contradicted yourself saying that the tecknique needs a live body to be set on when sarutobi was gonna die so wat r u talking about and if u could choose the area wher eu implement the soul of the person your sealing sarutobi would have placed the first and seconds soul in some one else to prevent them from eternal suffrage (liek he said the shinigami's stomach was they were now gonna sufer for all eternity) so no, thoug i do liek the thought of being able to manipulate where u implement it. also if so how the hell did yondaime put it on naruto if he was miles away from the battle and if u come bak saying "o u probrably just imagine the person" then y didn't sarutobi do so as i recall perfectly he apologized to 1st n 2nd for what he was doing cuz he had no ther choice so that would rule that out cuz he LOVED them to death. And he wouldn't join to renegade group he would be the leader of akatsuki (who's PURPOSE is to get kyuubi's power) and u know wats funny they must SOMEHOW know of a way to take the kyuubi out of naruto and put it sumwhere else and since its a group of them i'm guessing their gonna wanna distribute the MASSIVE strength into themselves. and i would hate it too if i was right T_T
     
  17. Shishou

    Messages:
    2,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    318
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    The way Sarutobi used it, both opponents die. But Kyuubi is not dead, simply sealed in Naruto.

    So this could lead us to believe that Yondaime wasn't strong enough to pull the demon's soul out, to kill it.... So perhaps the only way he could do it was seal it in baby Naruto but let it live in there, instead of sealing it in himself, where he dies and the Kyuubi dies.

    He sacrificed his life to seal the Demon away.



    Or there is a theory that only part of Kyuubi's soul is sealed, and Kyuubi still lives. And has something to do with Akatsuki, so needs them to get Naruto so he can get his soul returned, and come back to power.
     
  18. Genjing

    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    I believe Naruto was carried onto the battlefield; my own theory is that it was Sandaime who carried him, while Gama Bunta and other ninjas did their best to hold down/delay Kyubi... which is probably also where Gama gets that big scar over his eye. I hardly believe even a retired Hokage would sit around and do nothing in such a crisis, so carrying Naruto would be the most important and dangerous thing next to actually performing the seal. Of course i have no proof for this, but its just a theory and it makes sense to me.
     
  19. shinryuyasha

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005

    this jutsu is not a choose to kill or not. from wat we can tell either u r sealed into the shinigami's stomach and suffer for ever (saru's case) or u r sealed somewhere else (naruto's/yondaime's case) but this brings my good ol'friends maltha's theory up the seal which is seen on sarutobi when he dies and on naruto when he is a baby only comes up on the person who uses the jutsu , this jutsu does not seal the person inside of u it seals them in the shinigami so please stop saying that(this is only if u do not put it sumwhere else which is weird with the whole naruto deal). so thats y i am being led to belive more n more that maybe naruto is yondaime it woudl explain why he has the seal , it wuld explain the hair and the vast simularity between them, it would explain why he is in relevance with the kyuubi and it would explain why talking about the kyuubi, naruto, its origin, and how it was put into naruto taboo in konoha (rememebr that discussing the kyuubi was made forbidden in konoha) so maybe theres this huge conspiracy that only the top dogz know of like jiraya who seems very vastful in information. and if he only partially sealed the kyuubi liek saru did with orochimaru that would be sum sick stuff...like....it wouldn't even be alive it woudl just be liek dead from its first half to its liek belly? so it would be freaky that only its bak half would be alive.making completly dead.
     
  20. shinryuyasha

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    this doesn't make sence why would u carry a baby to a 90% chance of dying battle with a monster who no one is able to defeat. if anyone would have carried the baby it would have been yondaime himself because with his flash ability he could just have tagged a soldier in battle and gotten naruto and flashed bak to do it which in the meantime kyuubi would have done massive damage or even destroyed the whole village. the point is that kyuubi appeared out of no where it was a #1 alert the village was in complete danger peopel were being evacuated probrably shinobi's were sent to fight off or stall while the ones who were there were getting slaughtered , so that means that the strongest shinobi's such as sarutobi and yondaime would not be able to leave the battle field to stall the kyuubi to save as many as they could. and also anyone notice naruto was pretty huge for a new born baby? lol jesus i dun imagine the poor soul who had to birth him being that huge lmao.
     
  21. crazyjk

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    hes dead, get over it... and this was not worth reading
     
  22. shinryuyasha

    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    i apologize crazy that u didn't find it worth while, i hope in the near future i can post sumtin worth yoru while ^_^, and i do think he is dead i'm just thinking outsode the box for those who love being out there too like me. i out of all seriouseness hope i am 100% wrong lol cuz it would be dissapointing if all this was real. :laugh
     
  23. holdemrules

    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
  24. changsta

    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    1) Why reason would he have for to run off and want no one to know about it?

    2) When I said that you need live body to place the seal on it has to be alive... even if hes gonna die at the moment his body is still alive.

    3) You don't know how far Naruto was from the battle that is a variable. But we know Sarutobi's situation, he had no bodies near him, there was also a barrier around him. Also remember that the battle between Kyubi and the 4th is still shaky cuz he dont know all the details.

    4) So this is your theory... The 4th Hokage had gotten power hungry by seeing Kyubi's real power. So just seals it away and it takes him 15 years to figure out how to unseal it? If that is your theory there is a flaw. He did make the jutsu, correct? When in the first chapter the 3rd sent a search party for Naruto cuz he stole the scroll of seals. They were all afraid cuz he could re-open the seal. It was said that there was a 1 in a million shot. So if that was the 4th's true plan he could have taken naruto and the scroll of seals and re opened the seal. But this is where your theory is still possible. Maybe the reason why he waited 15 years was to finally learn how to control Kyubi's power. But like I said before, I think that the 4th Hokage was a true hero.
     
  25. vdragon88

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    The technique is soul for soul, not just body. He probably only used bunshins to hold down the other two hokages to seal. This has two sides though. If they were brought back from the dead, that would mean that its probably only part of the soul? BUT, if I remember correctly, the sound genin were used as sacrafices, and the bodies were made of sand. The genin were probably dead before Orochimaru used them. I dunno tell me what you think about this.
     
  26. Fire With In

    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    OK... it was worth reading it but u shouldn't forget that no
    matter what the price of this jitsu is your life, I realy love
    to belive he's alive but I think that would be out of question.
     
  27. j_god

    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2005
    ummm.. your brain spark's kinda late.. been discussing this in depth in another thread but yeah! we thought a like.. i actually think that yondaime is the leader of akatsuki trying to capture again what he actually captured a loong time ago..

    the theory goes something like 4th used a bunshin to seal the kyuubi.. but since the kyuubi is soo powerfull the bunshin came alive---naruto duh
     
  28. Fire With In

    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Yondaime, savior of Konoha, being the leader of Akatsuke!!!
    Dude this is so cruel to think about :sad
     
  29. Syferz

    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2005
    the mostlikely thing

    1. Kyuubi didn't attack just a forest but a town maybe Uzumaki maybe some other town it really doesn't matter, but lets say it was Uzumaki and that it was a clan and the 4th was part of it. Now lets say he was having a baby, but because the Kyuubi attacked there was a lot of stress and the mother died. Thus Naruto is really the 4th son. (explains EVERYTHING that is thought of when people think that Naruto is really the 4th. Except the seal which i will hope to answer in one of my number thingies) This Explains where Yondiame got the baby (the kyuubi was sitting on the village that naruto was born in) this also explains why Naruto was choosen to be the seal.

    2. the reason why the theory of the 4th being alive is wrong is simply because the deathgod wouldn't be happy with a fake soul. He would want Yondiame's soul and if you remember it isn't the sealing that costs the life it is said that the cost for calling the death god is your life. So for him to appear means you give your life.

    3. The reason kyuubi was sealed instend of killed? Kyuubi is immortal. I am not just wildly guessing about that... he is actually an old japaniese legend which is why he had to be sealed and why the 4th couldn't be the seal; because he would be dead.

    4. Naruto has the same seal, because it is actually is still the same seal... it's Created when that jutsu seals something... it is also special; because it allows the charka to flow from it without breaking.

    5. The real reason why the 4th can't be Naruto is simple. Jaraiya would know, and if Jaraiya knew that Naruto was the 4th, he wouldn't of had a problem training him for one. For two he wouldn't talk to Yondiame as a 3rd person when he threw Naruto off the cliff or any other time he meantioned it.

    6. Yondiame has no reason why he would have to attack konaha to get Naruto, he would of just took Naruto when he was a baby. Plus Jaraiya would know if Yondiame was the leader of akutski. Hell I think Jaraiya knows more then anyone about anything that happens in this anime...

    Also in closing I really think Naruto being the 4th would just destory the way we view Naruto and it would destory our feelings about this character... Also remember the name Naruto has to do with ramen... The creator made this anime because of his love of Ramen and the knowledge that ninja's are well known in the "west" ok well one last thing. If you want an out there theory about naruto the seal and yondiame...

    Maybe Yondiame casted the seal and him and his wife sealed it. and his wife being pregant would then seal Kyuubi's powers inside her unborn child... LOL lets go further and say that she wasn't even pregant and Naruto's parents are Yondiame, his wife (securitary), and nine tails. lol Just a little something to pick at your head... I really think Yondiame sealed it in Naruto... Because they were both alive at the same time and it says he sealed it into Naruto which means he put it there with his hands or feet if you really think he is skilled. Thanks hope you don't feel flamed just having a little fun with the end of this thread
     
  30. Moritsune

    Messages:
    33,317
    Likes Received:
    537
    Trophy Points:
    2,133
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Yondaime is dead

    if u'll think back to the fight between sandaime and orochimaru, u'll realize that orochimaru was intending to summon Yondaime's body from the grave as well as the first two hokages. Sandaime obviously prevented the third coffin from opening. Also Sandaime's kage bunshin bodies disappeared after sealing the two hokages. Thus if Yondaime had used kage bunshin, the village wouldn't have had a body to put in the coffin in the first place. So in conclusion, though ur theory was plausible, it is impossible.
     
Loading...