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Post Crisis Superman's "Cosmic Feats" Analyses

Published by ShunKanamee in the blog ShunKanamee's blog. Views: 214

I am going to look at all of Post Crisis Superman's feats that are multi-galaxy level and try to refute/debunk the most popular arguments used for them to overrate Superman. I have spent since October of 2018 reading up on Superman (Massive impulse to read them because I needed context to so much downplay/wank), reading The Great Superman Debate (Legit The Getbackers Deception of this decade), and reading this one stupid Screwattack blog called "Closing the Door For Good," and rewatching the Death Battles. Now I feel confident to start making a post on it. While I do have most scans of every feat, and proper refutations, this still will be a WIP (School limits my time working on this). I plan on trying to do the feats in chronological order, from oldest to latest.

Zero Hour Vol 1 #0
Superman contributes 1/5 the energy of the Big Bang
Spoiler:

Supposedly, Superman contributes too 1/5 the energy of the Big Bang in Zero Hour
Spoiler:







Basically they are helping recreate existence because Hal Jordan destroyed it all, so those who can absorb energy were drawing from Hal Jordan's plasma universe, and those who can project energy aided Waverider to giving the energy to Damage, who would explode to recreate the Big Bang. So the things I should note are:

  1. As noted in the scans, Captain Atom is contributing here, and whose to say they were all contributing equal amounts of energy? It could simply be that Superman alone would not contribute much to this, but its in his character to pitch in even if he is not up to match
  2. While they did contribute a lot of energy to starting this Big Bang, it was actually The Spectre who actually initiated the event.
Spoiler:



So yeah, it might have been The Spectre who actually created the Big Bang proper in the end, and not Superman. There's just not enough evidence that he himself contributed a whole 20% of the Big Bang's energy and not commonly stronger characters like The Spectre.


New Gods Vol 4 #10-11
Superman fights S'ivaa
Spoiler:

So he is seen brawling S'ivaa

Spoiler:





This is the same S'ivaa who could destroy existence.

Spoiler:




And Superman is seen fighting him; Orion is also seen fighting him earlier.

Spoiler:




So this seems all good, but do remember what Highfather said



It's his dance which will destroy all existence, not his physical power.

This is further cemented by what is said at the beginning of the next issue:

Spoiler:




S'ivaa must be between Apokolips and New Gensisis to do his dance in a place where it can destroy existence. He may tear space-time around usually, but this is where he must be to destroy everything.

And also seen in the second scan when Superman was fighting S'ivaa, with that large tear, that this was gradual and over time the tears in reality will grow larger. This is clearly over time.

Furthermore, it's not like Superman and Orion were actually damaging or themselves being directly hit by S'ivaa throughout the fight. S'ivaa is simply swatting flies, and Superman and Orion's power aren't even phasing him.

Spoiler:





And they did not actually defeat him through tier power alone. They managed to trip him up while he was off guard and launch him into the Source, where he died.

Spoiler:





So yeah. S'ivaa's destruction feat was over time and under special circumstances, and regardless his fight with Superman and Orion can be best described as swatting flies with him not really putting his all in damaging the two. He was killed by being tripped up in his own tears in space-time and being pushed into the Source. Superman does not scale to this existence destroying.



Superman: Man of Tomorrow Volume 1 #15
Superman “shatters through infinite realities”
Spoiler:

Spoiler:







Here is the supposed feat

One thing I must note is that first off, Superman during this story is in Hell, where he has no physical body, or rather his physical reality is all a matter of perspective and easily manipulated by Neron’s illusions

Spoiler:






Because his physical reality is a matter of perspective and as manipulable as a dream, Neron has complete control over Superman’s perception of physical reality, constantly shifting it based on Superman’s dreams. Superman has no physical control over this, and he only has his mind existentially with him.

Spoiler:






So when Superman was breaking through these “realities,” he isn’t doing this with his physical strength, as his physical strength is existentially null in Hell

And lastly…. These aren’t realities at all, as I have made clear. They are merely illusions. They are all just figments of Superman’s mind.

Spoiler:




And to further prove this, notice in the original scan that Superman puts these “realities” in quotation marks? That’s because he literally confirms these are illusions in the same scan used to justify him “breaking realities”



So in conclusion for this feat, these “realities” were subjective worlds created by Neron manipulating his dream, and are effectively just illusions. Superman would not even have a physical body to physically break them, so this had to be a mental battle and more so showed Superman’s mental fortitude in the face of advanced reality warping illusions, and not some "multiversal feat" for him.


Superman: Man of Steel #89 and Superman: King of the World
Superman with the usage of Torquasm Vo fights evenly with Dominus
Spoiler:

This is quite honestly one of Superman's most overhyped cases of scaling and I constantly see this as "proof" for him being multiversal.

In Man of Steel #89, Superman uses Torquasm Vo for the first time and fights off Dominus

Spoiler:







He would use it again in Superman: King of the World, to finish off Dominus once and for all.
Spoiler:


















And as seen from Superman Vol 2 #139, Dominus is a multiversal reality warper who has extremely high power over manipulating space time it seems
Spoiler:






Another statement on his power from this issue

Spoiler:





And with this, in Superman: Man of Steel #83 he can manipulate Superman's realities

Spoiler:








He also managed to fight and give Kismet, a cosmic entity, a run for her money as seen in Adventures of Superman #561

Spoiler:





So this seems all good and all. Guess Superman is multiversal for fighting this reality warper then? Case closed...

Wrong.

There is MUCH more to Dominus' powers than what I mentioned. I will go over it.

#1. It is not like Superman was faring well against Dominus' powers

He was completely fooled by it at times, as seen in Action Comics #747

Spoiler:





And in Adventures of Superman #567, he is blatantly beaten down hard by Dominus

Spoiler:






Also seen in Superman Vol 2 #139

Spoiler:






#2. Dominus' hax in question isn't a universally applicable multiversal reality warping ability, and it is very selective.

It takes by taking Superman's subjective thoughts and dreams and creating a reality out of it. This reality is extremely realistic, down to the smallest detail, and everything works as it should be.

Spoiler:






Also, most majorly, Dominus' hax requires conscious minds to create and warp realities of. His multiversal reality warping relies on his target openly leaking their thoughts and conscious.

Spoiler:






He uses this to temporarily fight Dominus while he is asleep

Spoiler:







If the mind is in an unconscious "theta" state, his powers becomes completely nullified and about as useful as throwing balls of wet tissue paper at Superman. Superman would train to go into this "Theta State" and master the technique known as Torquasm Vo.

Spoiler:






And doing this, as I showed in the actual fights above, Superman renders Dominus' hax moot and Dominus must resort to his physical prowess. And how is he with that? Well that leads me to...

#3. We have no proof that Dominus is nearly as strong physically than with his reality warping

In his backstory in Action Comics #754, it is revealed he is a magician, no fighter, who in fact lost his physical body becoming the reality warper he is

Spoiler:





While he absolutelt stomps and toys around with Superman when he uses his reality warping attacks, any time he may be physically fighting Superman leads to more even results

This can be seen in Man of Steel #89:

Spoiler:





and it can also be seen in Superman: King of the World, where again Superman does better against Dominus physically until he starts using his hax

Spoiler:







With this all said, let's look back at Superman's final fight with Dominus in Superman: King of the World

#1. On Pages #40-42, we see that the whole fight and "shattering realities" and any brawl is literally just a mental duel between Superman who is now ultra-alert using Ultra Instinct Theta State and equally capable of using Dominus' mental hax and rendering it useless. Superman's multiversal reality warping was useless due to its weakness here. There is no multiversal feat here when the multiversal feat was incapable of happening to begin with.

#2. Dominus' physical body is not too corporeal and tangible, and is literally made of souls. He deems actually doing a physical bout instead of using his illusions and reality warping not to be the proudest moment, going by how he states how he will beat him on his level. This means Dominus is going to be fighting Superman in a very nerfed state (He is an illusionary reality warper with no tangible body) and Superman, on the other hand, will logically when using Torquasm Vo not have any mental blocks and thus should be at his peak.

#3. If you look at the fight, Dominus was actually beating out Dominus in the end. Yes, even when weakened without his strongest abilities and having to rely on his physical body which he is not even made to use, Superman had to rely on tricking him and using the realism of Dominus' illusions to his advantage and BFR'ing him to the Phantom Zone. Superman later on confirms he was not doing so great against Dominus and likely would have lost.

Spoiler:




CONCLUSION: Dominus' hax draws on the thoughts and dreams of conscious but unalert minds. Those are who are succeptible to his illusions and reality warping. An unconcscious mind, one in the "Theta State," will not have such weakness and his hax will be massively weakened to rendered completely useless if fighting such a mind. Superman activated the "Theta State" using Torquasm Vo which let him gain a more even footing with Dominus by removing all limiters Superman would logically have and by forcing Dominus to his far inferior physical state. However, despite this, Dominus still edged out over Superman in the fight and Superman as forced to outsmart Dominus and use his reality warping against him to win. Superman does not scale to Dominus' reality warping at any point prior as he was always at the mercy of it and never actually directly combatted it head on without being in the Theta State which as noted prior renders Dominus' illusions as sturdy as wet tissue paper.

So yeah, Superman does not scale to Dominus' multiversal reality warping.


Action Comics #759
Superman takes hits from Strange Visitor
Spoiler:

So in Sharon Vance's first appearances, Superman was trying to chase her down and he took some hits from her.
Spoiler:








She has the powers of Kismet
Spoiler:






However note that she was not in complete control of her powers, and I doubt even if her powers are based on emotions that she did a full powered focused attack on Superman.
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