1. Welcome to the forums! Take a second to look at our Beginner's Guide. It contains the information necessary for you to have an easier experience here.

    Thanks and have fun. -NF staff
    Dismiss Notice
it's a miracle that I even managed to edit this
Background color
Background image
Border Color
Font Type
Font Size
  1. I'm bored so I might as well put all the Vader quotes in one place

    This is Legends Vader, BTW

    Nick Rostu sensing Vader's power and putting it significantly above Kar Vastor's:

    Kar Vastor's power in the Force, which could refer to overall potential considering Anakin is in the same sentence as Yoda:

    Kar Vastor defeated Mace Windu in HtH and Mace has said he couldn't beat Vastor on his best day, though Mace gets significantly stronger after the events of Shatterpoint, which was heavily implied in the RotS novel if not outright stated. We already have precedence with Anakin and Kenobi improving by a good amount after AotC. If they can get better, why not Mace Windu?

    FYI, Coruscant Nights 1 takes place during 18.8 BBY

    Vader growing in power during the time between ANH and ESB:

    Other sources that state general growth in power and ability:

    Vader reaching his peak during RotJ, where it's said his power is greater than it had ever been:

    Dark Empire endnotes state that Vader took the full force of Palpatine's lightning, which obviously killed him, but it's notable that he endured it long enough to throw Big Papa P down the shaft. Why am I even posting this, people have already seen the movie but whatever

  2. Now purely based on the manga and Super. Most of this is copied from @Thespacelord's old tier list, with some modifications.

    Tier 0

    Tier 1
    Super Saiyan Blue Goku (KK x10)
    Golden Frieza
    Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta (Pre-RoSaT)

    Tier 2
    Super Saiyan God Goku

    Tier 3
    Super Vegeto

    Tier 4
    Super Buu (Gohan Absorbed)
    Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed)

    Tier 5
    Ultimate Gohan

    Tier 6
    Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
    Super Buu

    Tier 7
    Super Saiyan 3 Goku
    Kid Buu
    Fat Buu

    Tier 8
    Evil Buu
    Mr. Buu
    Super Saiyan 2 Goku
    Super Saiyan 2/Majin Vegeta
    Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (Cell Saga)
    Super Perfect Cell

    Tier 9
    Perfect Cell (Full power)
    Super Saiyan Goku (Buu Saga)
    Super Saiyan Vegeta (Buu Saga)
    Super Saiyan Gohan (Cell Saga)
    Super Saiyan Gohan (Buu Saga)
    Dabura (depending on if you think Gohan was SS2 he could go in tier 8)
    Super Saiyan Trunks (Pre-RoSaT)
    Super Saiyan Goten (Pre-RoSaT)

    Tier 10
    Supreme Kai
    Super Saiyan Vegeta (Post-second RoSaT)
    Super Saiyan Trunks (Post-second RoSaT)
    Piccolo (Cell/Buu Saga)
    Perfect Cell (warm-up, Vegeta fight)

    Tier 11
    Super Vegeta (Android Saga)
    Super Trunks (Android Saga)

    Tier 12
    Semi Perfect Cell

    Tier 13
    Android 16
    Imperfect Cell (Prime)

    Tier 14
    Base Goku/Base Vegeta (Buu Saga)
    Android 17/Piccolo (fused with Kami)
    Base Trunks/Base Goten
    Android 18

    Tier 15
    Super Saiyan Vegeta (Android Saga)
    Super Saiyan Goku (Android Saga)
    Super Saiyan Trunks (Android Saga)

    Tier 16
    Super Saiyan Goku (Yadrat)
    Super Saiyan Trunks (Trunks Saga)
    Super Saiyan Goku (Frieza Saga)
    Piccolo (Android Saga)
    Frieza (100%)

    Tier 17
    King Cold
    Frieza (50%)
    Kaiokenx 20 Goku (Frieza Saga)
    Vegeta (Cell Saga)
    Trunks (Cell Saga)

    Tier 18
    Kaioken x10 Goku (Frieza Saga)

    Tier 19
    Vegeta (Android Saga)
    Goku (Android Saga)
    Trunks (Android Saga)

    Tier 20
    Goku (Frieza Saga)
    Frieza (Final Form), initial

    Tier 21
    Vegeta (Frieza Saga)
    Frieza (Third Form)

    Tier 22
    Piccolo (Merged with Nail)
    Frieza (Second Form)

    Tier 23
    Frieza (First Form)
    Vegeta (Frieza Saga)

    Tier 24 (extended tier)
    Great Ape Vegeta (Saiyan Saga)
    Captain Ginyu
    Goku (Namek Saga)

    Tier 25

    Tier 26
    Vegeta (Namek Saga)
    Zarbon (Monster)

    Tier 27 (extended tier)
    Goku (Kaioken x3) (Saiyan Saga)
    Vegeta (Namek Saga), pre-zenkai
    Vegeta (Saiyan Saga)
    Kaioken x2 Goku (Saiyan Saga)

    Tier 28
    Goku (Saiyan Saga)

    Tier 29
    King Kai
    Piccolo (Saiyan Saga)

    Tier 30
    Tien (Saiyan Saga)
    Krillin (Saiyan Saga)
    Yamcha (Saiyan Saga)
  3. Since 40k has one, why not Star Wars?

    This entry will have a fairly wide variety of speed feats

    Vestara Khai's nanosecond feat from Fate of the Jedi - Abyss:

    Shatterpoint notes the existence of hypersonic slug shells:

    A padawan deflects flechette rounds with TK:

    A Jedi Master, who isn't Council-tier material like Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan, does this:

    Etain, who is complete bottom of the barrel tier when it comes to Force users, deflected debris from a droid that exploded:

    From Star Wars Tales #13:

    Plagueis using his speed and 11-4D had to adjust its photoreceptors to identify him

    Ferus Olin, a Jedi, couldn't even see Vader move. Vader's speed was such that it was the fastest thing he ever saw, aside from Yoda, and Ferus was a Jedi ever since the prequel era

    Tasha Ryo deflecting slugthrower bullets with the Force in Dawn of the Jedi: Force Storm #2:

    Mace Windu walking through a hail of blaster bolts and hypersonic slugthrower shells, weaving a defensive web with his lightsabers which was described as impenetrable, meaning he blocked whatever came his way:

    Bolla Ropal managing to block a cortosis bullet in The Clone Wars: Act on Instinct, though it shorted out his lightsaber:


    Luke and Kam block Force-guided concussion bow "arrows", which are essentially slugs, in Dark Empire 2:


  4. Bored enough to do this

    In no particular order:

    Darth Sidious
    Darth Vader
    Darth Plagueis
    Darth Jadus
    Darth Maul (TCW version)
    Darth Marr
    Exar Kun
    Darth Tyranus
    Darth Bane
  5. Tier 0
    Primordial Majin

    Revolt Tier
    Revolt w/ three Core Bones
    Revolt w/ two Core Bones
    Revolt w/ one Core Bone

    Tier 2
    Rare Metal Bones
    Base Revolt
    Base Klude
    Other Nepos Council Members

    Tier 3
    Iron Bone Gregory and Victor
    Elite Iron Bone Nepos fighters; IE Swordfish, Crow, and the like
    Iron Bone protags

    Tier 4
    White Bone Protags
    Elite White Bone Nepos fighters; IE Horse, Vyse, Drossas, Liebert
    Fodder White Bone Nepos fighters

    fuck it, I'll do more later
  6. just so I can have a handy reference for myself

  7. because Wombat said he wanted one during a skype convo :maybe

    Tier 0
    Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta

    Tier 1
    Omega Shenron/Super Yi Xing Long
    Super Saiyan 4 Goku (Limits Surpassed)
    Super Saiyan 4 Vegeta
    Syn Shenron/Yi Xing Long
    Super 17 (Post-kamehameha absorption)
    Nuova Shenron/Si Xing Long
    Eis Shenron/San Xing Long

    Tier 2
    Hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto (High-end interpretation, taking this into account)
    Super Saiyan 4 Goku
    Golden Great Ape Baby Vegeta
    Golden Great Ape Goku
    Super 17 (Pre-kamehameha absorption)
    Super Baby Vegeta 2
    Super Saiyan Goku (Super 17 Saga)
    Super Saiyan (2) Vegeta (Super 17 Saga)
    Super Uub
    Super Baby Vegeta 1

    Tier 3
    Super Vegetto
    Super Gogeta
    Buuhan (Enraged)
    Base Baby Vegeta
    Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Baby Saga)
    Super Saiyan Goku (Baby Saga)
    Hyper Mega Rildo
    Base Goku
    General Rildo
    Super Janemba (Full power)
    Hildegarn (Final Form)

    Tier 4
    Super Janemba (Casual)
    Hildegarn (First Form)
    Super Mega Cannon Sigma
    Commander Neji
    Luud (Level 3)
    Super Saiyan Goku (Imegga Battle)
    Luud (Level 2)
    Ultimate Gohan*
    Super Saiyan 3 Goku (Buu Saga)*
    Kid Buu*
    Base Goku (Beginning of GT)*
    Uub (Beginning of GT)*
    Super Buu
    Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks

    *Going by Toeiverse as a whole, they're all likely around the same ballpark in terms of power

    Tier 5
    Fat Janemba
    Fat Buu
    Evil Buu

    Tier 6
    Mr. Buu
    Super Saiyan 2 Goku
    Majin Vegeta
    Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (Cell Saga)
    Super Perfect Cell
    Broly (Movie 10)
    Super Saiyan 2 Gohan (Buu Saga)

    Tier 7
    Perfect Cell (Full power)
    Broly (Movie 8)
    Bojack (Transformed)
    Pikkon (Unweighted)
    Perfect Cell (During his fight against Goku)
    Super Saiyan Gohan (Cell Saga)
    Super Saiyan Goku (Cell Saga)
    East Kaioshin
    Ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta (After the second RoSaT training)
    Ascended Super Saiyan Trunks (After the second RoSaT training)
    Piccolo (Post-RoSaT)

    Tier 8
    Perfect Cell ("Warming up" against Vegeta)
    Ascended Super Saiyan Vegeta
    Ascended Super Saiyan Trunks
    Perfect Cell (Initial appearance)

    Tier 9
    Semi-Perfect Cell
    Android 16
    Imperfect Cell (Post-mass human absorption)
    Super 13
    Android 17
    Piccolo (Fused with Kami)
    Android 18
    Metal Cooler (Post-repair)
    Imperfect Cell

    Tier 10
    Super Saiyan Vegeta (Pre-RoSaT)
    Super Saiyan Goku (Pre-RoSaT, Android Saga)
    Metal Cooler (Pre-repair)
    Final Form Cooler
    Super Saiyan Trunks (First appearance)
    Mecha Freeza
    Super Saiyan Goku (Namek Saga)
    100% Freeza

    Tier 11
    70% Freeza
    50% Freeza
    Kaioken x20 Goku
    Kaioken x10 Goku
    Freeza (Casual)
    Base Goku (Final zenkai)
    Vegeta (Final zenkai)

    Tier 12
    Third Form Freeza
    Gohan (After his zenkai during the Second Form Freeza battle, using his best attack)
    "False" Super Saiyan Goku
    Piccolo (Nail fusion)
    Second Form Freeza
    Garlic Jr. (Transformed, Garlic Jr. Saga)
    Lord Slug (Giant form)
    First Form Freeza
    Vegeta (Second to last zenkai)
    Lord Slug (Young)
    Turles (Post-fruit consumption)

    Tier 13
    Goku (Kaioken x2)
    Great Ape Vegeta (Saiyan Saga, peak condition)
    Captain Ginyu
    Goku (Base, Namek Saga)
    Tien (Namek Saga)
    Yamcha (Namek Saga)
    Recoome, Jeice, and Burter
    Lord Slug (Old)
    Turles (Before eating the fruit)
    Vegeta (First zenkai on Namek)

    Tier 14
    Transformed Zarbon
    Vegeta (Namek Saga)
    Goku (Kaioken x3, Saiyan Saga)
    Base Zarbon
    Gohan (Masenko, Recoome fight)
    Vegeta (Saiyan Saga)
    Dr. Wheelo
    Goku (Kaioken x2, Saiyan Saga)
    Gohan and Krillin (Guldo fight)
    Chiaotzu (Namek Saga)
    Three Random Filler Namekians that Freeza killed
    King Vegeta
    Bardock (End of Bardock Movie)

    Tier 15
    Base Goku (Saiyan Saga, just like the rest of the other protags below)
    Gohan (Enraged and using Masenko)

    Tier 16
    Garlic. Jr (Transformed)

    too lazy to continue the rest

    also, this thing is in no way 100% precise, not even fucking close
  8. yes, the Ask Vector Prime stuff is official TF canon, like most things in the franchise
  9. because I don't want to flood the metadome with more of these

    Infinite Laughter Tier
    Love Letter Monster :oldryoma

    Tier 0
    Infinity Silhouette
    ---Massive gap---
    Giant Dune

    Tier 1
    Super Silhouette Precures
    Adult Dune
    Cure Moonlight (EoS)
    Cures Blossom, Marine, and Sunshine (EoS)
    Child Dune
    Cure Flower
    School Desertrian possessed by Sasorina with 3 Dark Crystals
    Snowman Desertrian possessed by Kumojacky and Kobraja

    Tier 2
    Baron Salamander (dragon form)
    Professor Sabark**
    Baron Salamander (base)
    Cure Moonlight (Post-trial)
    Dark Precure (Yellow eyes)
    Cure Moonlight (Pre-trial)
    Dark Precure
    Cures Blossom, Marine, and Sunshine (Post-trial)
    Majority of Desertrians possessed by Dark Crystal Desert Apostles
    Kumojacky, Kobraja, and Sasorina (Dark Crystal versions)

    Tier 3
    Kumojacky, Kobraja, and Sasorina
    Cures Blossom, Marine, and Sunshine (Pre-trial)*

    Tier 4
    Most Desertrian of the week monsters

    Fodder Tier

    *interchangeable positions between them and Kumojacky plus the others

    **just a hunch, judging from how he performed against Adult Dune, not really all that solid
  10. and that's why bleach is shit

    peace, niggas
  11. 18:36 to 18:51 - The space bridge explodes with Megatron still right on it, he barely lives through this and that's with the Dark Energon keeping him ticking.

    Starscream's heat ray feats:

    7:22 to 7:33 - Starscream with the laser weapon plans to melt through that huge glacier and if he succeeds, it'd cause a huge rise in sea levels and would flood coastal cities.

    9:16 - Arcee notes the difference in temperature as Starscream uses his ray gun.

    18:40 to 19:10 - Optimus tanks the laser long enough to blow it up, and its explosion propels him way the fuck down in a few seconds. Starscream also survives the explosion with no problems.


    9:29 to 9:50 - Optimus destroys the Omega Lock, resulting in a massive explosion and he takes it to the face unscathed.

    9:45 to 10:27 - Wheeljack plants a bomb inside an energon mine to kill Predaking, detonates it, but the King emerges unscathed.

    Breakdown and Knock Out destroy tanks.

    Bulkhead acts as a support for a cave's ceiling in order to prevent it from collapsing. That continues for a good chunk of the episode. In the end, Starscream is forced to take Bulkhead's place.

    Predaking uses a huge stalactite that fell on him as a melee weapon.

    18:29 to 18:48 - Optimus splits a huge boulder in half with the Star Saber.

    Megatron wielding the Dark Star Saber unleashes a blade beam that slices through one of Egypt's pyramids.

    I propose that this be on the list of accepted calcs