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  1. I was thinking that notion/sentence to bring up but ı was bussy and dont care much. But after saw this monstrous idiocy then ı just wanna write something about it.

    A4 (4th Raikage Unruly Ay) took on all 3 Sannin and come on top of 'em as the victor cuz he is faster ?!!

    One of the stupidiest ideas ı ever heard of in NBD and believe me ı read so many shits in this forum. And this is easily Top 5.

    ---------------------------

    Before debunking A4 as a kage and warrior. I wanna look at all this "speedster superiority" thing in all manga.


    1st of all lets look at which is the most dominanat stat that the parrameters of the narutoverse cares more then others ?


    Lets look at some superior, dominant figures of Shinobi History.

    Hashirama

    Spoiler:
    - Can restrain and control bijuus
    - Has immensive chakra reserves and life force
    - Gigantic Scale Jutsus
    - Kekkei Gekkai Mastery
    - Senjutsu
    - Sensory
    - Genjutsu
    - High level taijutsu & cqc
    - Kenjutsu
    - Fujinjutsu
    - Kekkai ninjutsu (barriers)
    -Area & Crowd Control Abilities
    - Poison release
    - Mokutonbunshin - Kage Bunshin and Tajuu Kagebunshin 3 form of the best clone jutsus
    - Shinshuusenju - Mokuton Golem - Mokuton Dragon - God Gates - Rashomon Gates
    - Intelligence
    - High Level Physical Attiributes
    - High level Will Power
    - Gigantic Portrayal & Reputation
    - Genius Level Fundamental Skills
    - Trained and Inherited Powerful Ninjas (educated Hiruzen with Tobirama)



    Madara:

    Spoiler:
    - Can restrain and control bijuus
    - Has immensive chakra reserves and life force
    - Gigantic Scale Jutsus
    - Kekkei Genkai Mastery
    - Dojutsu
    - Sensory
    - Genjutsu
    - High level Taijutsu & cqc
    - Kenjutsu & Fukijutsu
    - Fujinjutsu
    - Kekkai ninjutsu
    - Susano Variants + Perfect Susano + Access to %100 Kurama
    - Precog Vision
    - High Level Physical Attiributes
    - Area & Crowd Control Abilities
    - Intelligence
    - High Self Confidence
    - Gigantic Portrayal & Reputation
    - Genius Level Fundamental Skills
    - Trained and Inherited Powerful Ninjas (educated Izuna & Obito)


    These are early legends of Shinobi History. Lets look at closer history.

    Hiruzen The Professor

    Spoiler:
    - Has huge chakra reserves
    - High Intelligence
    - Worked Hard
    - Sensory
    - Genjutsu
    - Bojutsu & Bukijutsu & Shurikenjutsu
    - Fujinjutsu
    -Kekkai Ninjutsu
    - Summoning
    - Elemental Ninjutsu and Hand Seal Mastery
    - High Level Physical Attiributes
    - High level Taijutsu & cqc
    - Huge Portrayal & Reputation
    - Genius Level Fundamental Skills
    - Trained and Inherited Powerful Ninjas (educated Legendary sannin)


    Legendary Sannin:

    Spoiler:
    - Has huge chakra reserves
    - High Intelligence
    - Worked Hard
    - Sensory
    - Genjutsu
    - Kenjutsu
    - High level Taijutsu & cqc
    - Senjutsu
    - Medical Ninjutsu
    - Elemental Ninjutsu Mastery
    - Rasengan
    - Edo Tensei
    - Hair Jutsus
    - Regeneration
    - Toad Jutsus / Snake Jutsus / Slug Jutsus
    - Area & Crowd Control Abilities
    - Poison & Oil Releases
    - High Level Summons
    - High Level Physical Attiributes
    - Fujinjutsu
    - Kekkai Ninjutsu
    - Body Switch & Oral Rebirth
    - Will Power
    - Top Level Fundamental Skills
    - Huge Portrayal & Reputation
    - The most diverse and succeed shinobi carriers (probably) (at least for their life time)
    - Trained and Inherited Powerful Ninjas (nagato,sakura,anko,sasuke,naruto,konan,yahiko,minato,shizune,kabuto,etc)


    Minato

    Spoiler:
    - Has big chakra reserves
    - Sheer Will Power
    - High Intelligence
    - Top level speedster + high level physical attiributes
    - Senjutsu
    - Kekkai Ninjutsu
    - Fujinjutsu
    - Rasengan
    - High level Taijutsu & cqc
    - Summon
    - Toad Jutsu
    - Space / Time Jutsu Mastery + Teleportation
    - Genius Level Fundamental Skills
    - Huge Portrayal & Reputation
    - Trained and Inherited Powerful Ninjas (educated Kakashi & Obito)



    These are some of the most respected shinobies of different eras. And all of 'em officaly called as "Best of The Particular Era" .

    What is the most important and ovbious sentence that describes the success of the shinobi ?

    I think there is 4 of 'em

    - Versatility in skill & power
    - Hax in skill & power
    - Intelligence on action and in will power.
    - Reliable & Impressive Portrayal


    Do you ever heard of some ninja that hailed as best of their era or most fearsome of their era or most deadliest of their era just with their speed ?!

    NOPE !!!

    Hiruzen hailed as (even at his old age) > A3 and A4
    Minato hailed as >> A4

    And definitely Sannin > A4+A3 in terms of portrayal & reputation.

    No one cares one dimensional speedsters.

    At least A3 covers his weakness points with his immense durability and strnegth also he is not hot headed and rushy as his son.

    But A4 is a complete disaster.

    Did he have versatility ? Nope. Didnt showed any projectile type attack he has no range at least A3 has Black Lightning (even w/o any feat with it.) Raikage did now anything about genjutsu, fujinjutsu, barrier jutsu, clone jutsu, summoning, This dude let his arm burn with Amaterasu cuz it aint a big deal for him. Cuz this dude didnt even used or gonna use a single hand seal/sign. There is no ninjutsu tooo.

    And he never performed high level taijutsu w/o his speed either.

    So all of he had immensive chakra reserves, top level physical attiributes (the most outshining of this attiributes is speed), inferior raiton armor.

    THATS IT !!

    Did he hax any hax abilities ? His only " mere haxy" thing is his speed but he didnt accomplished anything big with his speed.

    Did he showed any high intelligence in anywhere in his combat career ? NOPE

    Dİd he have a exceptional portrayal or rep ? NOPE

    He aint big at any stat of 4 major Stats in the verse.




    Lets check his career failures

    -> Challenge to Jonin Minato -> Owned
    -> Challenge to KCM1 Naruto -> Owned
    -> Challenge to Killer Bee -> Owned
    -> Challenge to FKS Sasuke -> Saved by Gaara from mutual death. And lost an arm in the process. he is too dimensional enough to force himselff thru enton shrouded ribcage susano. CUZ HE HAS ANY OTHER OPTION in terms of ninja skills. His only option was outlasting Sasuke but he was too damned UNRULY & DUMB for that.

    -> Only kage who fall under 3T Sharingan genjutsu from a madara clone and saved by ônoki
    -> Didnt able to kill Jugo 2x attempt.
    -> His V1 Speed intercepted by Suigetsu, V2 Speed Intercepted by Gaara with ease
    -> Didnt able to crack Madara's ribcage susano or pierce Gaara's little amount of sand.
    -> He was the Grand General of the all army but didnt do nothing on strategy Shikaku runned all operation for him. Even Gaara was far far better commander.
    -> His dead ass saved by Tsunade after Madara merked all Gokage
    -> Didnt able to bring anything against Mini Shinsu Senju of Guruguru Yamato. Old-Age Hiruzen Edo was again portratyed as better than him in that scene.

    Even A3 has low-feats that proves that you cant accomplish anything with just speed.

    Edo-A3 bltzed by Gaara's sand twice
    Dodai ( a mid-jonin) reacted and avoided Edo-A3 twice
    One of 12 clone of Naruto get in SM and own A3 with ease.
    Stalamated with a Bijuu but at their 2nd encounter he bringed help this time
    Owned by 10000 fodder of a foreign nation (not an army from 5 big nation). If you think ım being unfair to him then listen to this.

    Hanzo cleared entire Konoha Division by himself abd spare the life of sannin.
    Base Edo-Madara easily spites hundreds of elite soldiers from 5 big nation in cqc in seconds
    One Arm Jiraiya fought again 6PoP and took one of 'em down and able to escape. Same 6PoP demolished the strongest Village.
    Naruto and Bee took on against 5 Sharinnegan Jinc Bijuus
    WhiteMask Obito keep his place against Killer Bee + KCM2 Naruto + Gai + MS Kakashi w/o any worries. Sharing the same eye with Kakashi saved their asses.

    So what A3 did was not an exceptional thing for any mid to high kage level ninja.


    So A4 takin on 3 mid to high kage leveler just cuz of physical attiributes is a joke. Feats, reputations, portrayals and fundamental parameters of the series, ALL OF IT against that idiotic claim.

    And lets skip A4 and A3 , tryo to look at "speed" in general.

    Did Rock Lee able to beat Gaara just cuz of speed ? NOPE
    Did Raikage able to force Madara to use a wood clone cuz of his speed ? NOPE, Tsunade & Ônoki did
    Did Raikage beat some one in the series -> Nope
    Dİd Minato has reputation just cuz of his speed ? -> Nope he hailed as 1 time per century type Genius by Tsunade and Jiraiya and also described as sealing jutsu master and inventin new jutsus. So speed just one side of him. He is not just all about speed.
    Shizune was faster than Kabuto due to Kabuto's himself. What happened ?
    Genin Kiba was faster than Genin Naruto . What happened ?
    Kakashi was faster than Zabuza but this is didnt stopped Zabuza to take advantage from the location and locked up Kakashi ?
    Jiraiya faster than each Pain Path but he didnt overcome Sharing Vision ..
    Killer Bee far faster than Kisame but still had huge trouble against him.
    Rock Lee was faster than Neji but still saw himself as inferior to him.
    Raikage was faster than Tsunade but Tsunade blocked Madara's downward katon attack before Raikage even flinced a bit.
    Tobirama was far faster than Kinkaku Force but he still used himself as bait/decoy and died.

    I can multiply these examples.

    Utilizing a Skill !

    In this series wielding some important skill was never been enough for being a big shot.

    BoS Naruto was wielding rasengan but didnt able to perform his War-Arc feats with his rasengan just cuz he was wielding it.

    BoS Kakshi was wielding better and way haxy MS eye than than Itachi but just wielding it doesnt make Kakashi better than Itachi

    Part 1 Oroc wileding the ET as a skill but this is didnt stopped Old Sarutobi to curse Oroc's all ninjutsu variants.

    Minato wielding senjutsu but cant accomplish what SM Naruto or SM Jiraiya can do with Senjutsu !



    So just wielding some skill wasnt enough for this show. A4 wielding some immense raiton armor and that makes him really fast. But he is just wielding it. Aint has any mastery onto it.

    He aint use his speed nimble, agile and accurate as 7G Gai or a Sage

    He aint able to use his speed versatile and think fast as Tobirama, Minato

    He aint has any sensory or precog skills So like Lee said to Sasuke "Your eyes can keep up with me but your body cant". And A4 has the exact opposite of this .

    His body can keep up but his mind cant. Thats why Tsunade outmaneuvered him against Madara.

    So A4 just wielding raw physicall attiributes and Raiton Armor to buff this attiributes but he is not creative, accurute and resourcefull with this. He is just wields.

    Thats why Obito was able to mock with him and make Raikage to toss in a wall cuz he cant control his speed like Minato or Naruto.

    IN THE END;

    1st Speed is a critical factor in this series but just a factor not a main reason. And its important how to utilize it. Just wielding it and runnig thru on a linear way aint enough to be efficient with it.

    2nd Just being fast never be enough and the results in the series proves this.

    3rd A4 was a joke. Most useless speedster of all series. And probably worst kagehood career in all narutoverse (his only rival is Rasa) .

    And anyone who Thinks A4 could take all 3 sannin with mid diff or even A4 oneshots a mid-kage cuz of speed must consider to debate on any fictional work. Cuz they're not qualified.
  2. 1st of all Jiraiya has 2 sealing jutsu that can disturb the link between Bee and Gyuuki and surprassing chakra.. Nothing just need to be about destructivity.

    2nd Senpo Goemon's heat is over couple of thousands C degree (Hotter than Magma) And he can multiply the effect of Goemon if he uses Bunta as oil source instead of himself So even more devastating.

    3rd SM Juiced Gamayu Endan and Yomi Numa still are solid options. Even heavily drugged and poisoned. ( Shizune was surprised even cuz of Jiraiya able to walk !) Yeah you might overlooked these jutsus but they're still solid.

    Spoiler:
    This is Manda after taking point blank explosion of Deidara's C0

    He aint has any open wound cuz of the attack. But he boiled cuz of the heat of it.

    This Manda against Poisoned Base Jiraiya's Gamayu Endan



    He is forced to use Oral Rebirth and his previous skin melted. Which wasnt able to done by C0

    Be cant tank this w/o some serious burns.


    4th Senpo Cho Odama Rasengan

    Even Regular Cho Odama Rasengan described as "Mountain Carver" by databook. And even Naruto's imperfect Odama Rasengan created huge AoE.
    So Senjutsu juiced Cho Odama Rasengan aint something that Bee gonna tank w/o a problem.


    SM Jiraiya's SCOR on Preta Path, Naruto's Clones Base COR on Edo-Madara, SM Naruto's SCOR on Kyuubi.

    As you can see Jiraiya's jutsu almost big as Naruto's and the inner density of his version ever bigger and denser. So Bee cant shake this off easily.

    5th Jiraiya has enough striking and lifting strength to hurt V6 Bee.

    Spoiler:
    His one simple kick flew Human path over dozens of meters away and bumped it on cement block and at first impact he losted his eyes instanly.


    Jiraiya also hurled a 100+ton caliber monster thru air while pushing through couple of meters thick cement wall and some big metal pipelines !


    Even sick Orochimaru with overdue body (he wasnt able to move couple of minutes after this panel he was that sick and the temporary body was overused already) was able to hurt Kn4 Naruto which is stronger and more durable creature compare to V6 Bee.



    And since SM Jiraiya >> Base Jiraiya >> Sick / Armless Orochimaru with overdued body in terms of strength... Jiraiya can hurt bee even with his bare hands or kicks at this point per canon




    6th Base Jiraiya's hair stong enough to demolish a hard shelled boss summon in a split-second and bend tough metal pipelines with ease (1). Also Fukasaku's tongue cutted Giant Chameleon like a butter and also cutted the bedrock floor. And Shima's tongue was fast enough to blitz Chameleon (and Animal Path's excpectations obviously) and whipped that to the rock floor and sprayed acid on it ! (2) And each Frog has paralyzing audio attack that stunned to giant Boss Summon in a split-second.



    Spoiler:






    7th Any long term cqc attempt could end bad for Bee cuz of this



    Base Jiraiya already dealed with fiercer, stronger and more destructive semi-bijuu while he is holding off. SM Jiraiya w/ killing intent with his all arsenal.. Is something else.

    Akatsuki was a organization that builded cuz of hunting bijuus/jincs. Jiraiya dived into investigate of their very leader. And gain respect of his enemies.

    On the other hand who forced restricted Bee a mid-high diff admits there is huge level difference between J-Man and him.


    So both feats, portrayal and reputation is clear.. So saying things like "Jiraiya got nothing" just irrelevant per canon.
  3. Tags:
    * -> Means speculative / guessing /estimated choices
    + -> Could be higher with some specific conditions
    - -> Could be lower with some specific conditions
    +/- -> Im not %100 sure it could move upwards or downwards
    gaps means gap.

    --------------------------------------------------

    God - Tier:

    Hagoromo with Ten Tail
    Kaguya

    Base Hagoromo
    RSM Naruto
    Juudara
    RSM Sasuke with 9 Bijuu Chakra and awakened PS
    Hamura*
    Ashura*
    Indra*
    Toneri*
    RSM Sasuke
    --------------------------------------------------
    Demi-God Tier:

    Juubito
    DMS Kakashi
    8G Gai
    --------------------------------------------------
    God-Like Tier:

    Rinnegan + EMS + Mokuton + Hashi Cells + Hashi SM Alive Madara
    Fused Momoshiki (-)

    SM Hashirama
    Edo Madara
    EMS Madara w/ %100 Kurama
    --------------------------------------------------
    Bridge Tier between High Kage and God-Likes

    War-Arc Orochimaru with prepped Powerful Edos (like 4 Hokage) (+)
    Rinnesharingan White Mask Tobi with Jinc Paths
    KCM2 Edo-Minato / BSM Naruto

    Base Hashirama
    EMS Madara (w/o kurama)
    Base Momoshiki (-)
    --------------------------------------------------

    Extreme High Kage Tier:

    KCM2/BM Naruto
    EMS Sasuke
    Nagato

    KCM Naruto
    SM Kabuto with prepped weak Edos (+)
    Guruguru fused with Yamato*
    --------------------------------------------------

    Low to High- High Kage Tier:

    Prime Hiruzen *
    Hoakge Minato
    Tobi
    Tobirama w/ fodder ET
    Kinshiki (+)

    --------------------------------------------------

    Bridge Tier Between High Kage and Mid Kage Tiers:

    Pain / SM Jiraiya / WA SM Naruto
    Killer Bee / Adult Gaara / Hanzo* (+)

    --------------------------------------------------

    High-Mid Kage Tier:

    SM Kabuto (w/o ET)
    Tobirama (w/o ET)


    Sannin / Mu / Itachi(+) / Old - Hiruzen / Prime Ônoki
    WA Gaara / FKS Sasuke(+) / A3 (-) / PA SM Naruto (w/ 5 min limit)


    --------------------------------------------------

    Mid-Mid Kage Tier:

    Yagura (+)
    Gengetsu
    WA Ônoki / Danzo w/ koto (+)

    A4
    Kin & Gin

    7G Gai
    WA MS Kakashi

    --------------------------------------------------

    Low - Mid Kage Tier:

    Deidara / 3rd Kazekage* (at least)
    Konan
    Sick Orochimaru / Sick Itachi
    WA Sakura
    --------------------------------------------------

    Extremely High - Low Kage Tier:

    Kisame
    Han * (+-)
    Danzo w/o Koto
    Hebi Sasuke
    Mei (+)
    Animal Path

    Kakuzu
    Other Jincs (+-) / Sasori / Rasa
    --------------------------------------------------

    Mid to High - Low Kage Tier:

    3T Itachi
    6G Gai
    Wind Arc Naruto
    Shin Uchiha (w/ manga feats not anime)
    Hokage Kakashi* / BoS Kakashi

    --------------------------------------------------

    Low to Mid - Low Kage Tier:

    Dan Kato*
    Asura Path (+)
    Yamato
    Kitsuchi
    Darui

    --------------------------------------------------

    Extreme High Jonin Tier // Bridge Tier Between Low Kages and Elite Jonins

    Base Gai
    Torune
    Adult Konohamaru* (+)
    BoS Naruto (+)
    Adult Shikamaru * / Hiashi / Wa Neji
    Old Chiyo
    Hidan
    Pakura *
    Kisame w/o samehada or additional chakra (+)


    I could go on later if you folks wanna see more. For now thats all.
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